MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Inthedetails]

And why this location? Well one, I guess, is because she jogged past it on her runs (I assume). He must have scouted the spot out and left his gear there ahead of time. Aside from the proximity to the jogging route, I wonder if there is anything specific about that spot? I know there is a cemetery on that road, but was this area/spot known to be a place where local teenagers hung out to smoke pot or anything like that? A known spot for some particular activity? Only the locals would know.

That is something else I hadn't considered - worth thinking through that possibility as well. What did he have with him? I'm thinking (just my own opinion, based on nothing) that the burns were from a lighter or cigarette, so that doesn't take much gear to carry. But he might have had a weapon (rock, hammer?) to subdue her and perhaps something to restrain her? We don't know, but "setting up" his gear ahead of time isn't something I've thought about much. He at least had something to make fire, that's for sure.

jmo

 

[1306kayaker]

And why this location? Well one, I guess, is because she jogged past it on her runs (I assume). He must have scouted the spot out and left his gear there ahead of time. Aside from the proximity to the jogging route, I wonder if there is anything specific about that spot? I know there is a cemetery on that road, but was this area/spot known to be a place where local teenagers hung out to smoke pot or anything like that? A known spot for some particular activity? Only the locals would know.

Growing up in the area, we didn't hang out much in this section of the woods. There are trails and clearings up near Wachusett Mountain that are more secluded yet easier to get to. However, things may have changed in the many years since I was hanging in the woods.....

I know this has been discussed before but not sure anything definitive was reached - could he have driven his car down this path and used that as his base? 300 feet into the woods is far enough back not to be seen and a vehicle would muffle any noise. The path is not really noticeable to the casual driver but I think it's passable, esp to a 4x4.


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[ThinkHard]

I guess this could depend on who she felt threatened by - if a vehicle, I could see running into the woods but if someone on foot, the road increases her chances of help. Think hard, sounds like your pursuer was on foot?

Remember that weird interview on Greta van Sustern on 8/11 where they talked about a witness who saw VM, saw a car, turned around and no VM but the car was still there? This theory could mesh w that story - maybe VM ran into the woods if she felt threatened by someone in that car. She might have dropped something while running and if she knew about the cart path/Connor Rd, have ended up near there. Not that I necessarily think that's what happened but it's an idea.


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Good point.

Regarding the siting....I wonder how tinted the windows were and how well the passerby could see in the car. It's possible VM was out of site because she was in the car willingly.

 

[ThinkHard]

I hesitate to even throw this out there....but I was having a conversation with my mom about this case (who's lived 4 miles from the crime scene for over 30 years).....and we were tossing out ideas and I was telling her about ideas people had brought forth here.....and we were talking about her crohns condition and the role it would play in her life....

So just a bit of a background, sadly heroine has gotten pretty bad around here. I've known multiple people who have passed away from an overdose just this year. Some would not surprise you, but some have been mothers with little ones and ideal lives at least from the outside. These weren't druggies, these were moms who got hooked on PK's after surgeries and injuries and couldn't get themselves off, and when they couldn't get rx any longer they sought out more extreme measures which is also sadly cheaper! And they hid it from practically everyone as far as I'm aware.

So my mom asked if it was possible VM could have ever been prescribed pain killers for her condition. (I do know they can cause constipation but I don't know if they are ever part of crohns treatment.....perhaps post surgery? Though we do not know she had surgery for her condition). And wondered if perhaps in trying to conquer this condition and succeed at her job she might have sadly been using drugs.

I don't hear I didn't think there was any indication of it....but that I had been shocked to learn of other people I knew who used it, so who knows.

I just kind of wanted to throw it out there because I know it's one angle we have not considered. Some might think it's ridiculous.....and I hope it is...but I've been surprised when it comes to who actually uses that stuff before...so who knows.

Also this convo triggered a memory of a drug related arrest on BSR, I will see if I can find it.

 

[Rocky1]

In my early notes I had written down 2:25 with a link to this forum (forum 1, post 309, I think to the Boston Globe) but that article no longer contains the time of the cell phone ping. Just wanted to see if you had more accurate info - thanks.

No, thank you. I think it's great that some people take notes. Now I know that the ping was at 2:25, and not 2:45, and for other new comers it may help them as well. It's nice to keep the facts straight.

 

[Kickoff61]

There is no indication or any facts she had a secret relationship , meeting or on any drugs.

 

[Rocky1]

An initial attack. VM escapes fleeing through the woods being chased. She chooses this because she is familiar with the area and feels it gives her the upper hand. She trips, or the attacker catches up. They fight, she loses. He is angry.

This is not my theory, but a scenerio where she runs to the location, is not dragged or carried. That it was a location not selected by him but by chance.


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That's a great scenerio.

 

[Kickoff61]

A local can be on foot and use car.

 

[Rocky1]

That is something else I hadn't considered - worth thinking through that possibility as well. What did he have with him? I'm thinking (just my own opinion, based on nothing) that the burns were from a lighter or cigarette, so that doesn't take much gear to carry. But he might have had a weapon (rock, hammer?) to subdue her and perhaps something to restrain her? We don't know, but "setting up" his gear ahead of time isn't something I've thought about much. He at least had something to make fire, that's for sure.

jmo

Based on the crime scene video in the news, and is posted here, the fire looks more like a large campfire, although I would think that LE too a lot of that with them for evidence. Much more than just a cigarette, or a lighter.

 

[rosesfromangels]

There is no indication or any facts she had a secret relationship , meeting or on any drugs.

Agree. Being a jogger and being hooked on pain killers don't add up for me. However, I'm glad we are exploring every angle.

 

[Steleheart]

There is no indication or any facts she had a secret relationship , meeting or on any drugs.

Thank you. Let's kill those theories right now and stop the victim blaming. Please.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Locals - where Vanessa's remains were found....is that within "ear shot" of someone hearing her if she were yelling? I'm trying to correlate this to figuring out if she were deceased by the time she got to this spot.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Another question - does anyone know how long Vanessa's mom had been living in this town? I'm trying to figure out how long Vanessa had been coming to visit this area. I've heard no mention of her dad. Is he living, and if so where? Did Vanessa visit him often too, and how far is that from the mom's house?

 

[Tempura]

I don't see how drug addiction would be a clue in any of this. There's been zero indication of drug abuse.

 

[Tempura]

Another question - does anyone know how long Vanessa's mom had been living in this town? I'm trying to figure out how long Vanessa had been coming to visit this area.

I don't think we've figured that out, but her aunt and uncle lived in the house for years before this, so it's likely that she visited there frequently before her mother even moved in.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Based on the crime scene video in the news, and is posted here, the fire looks more like a large campfire, although I would think that LE too a lot of that with them for evidence. Much more than just a cigarette, or a lighter.

Agree. When I saw the pictures, my immediate thought was "blow torch"; something a mechanic or welder would use.

 

[1306kayaker]

Locals - where Vanessa's remains were found....is that within "ear shot" of someone hearing her if she were yelling? I'm trying to correlate this to figuring out if she were deceased by the time she got to this spot.

Well the houses are far apart but it's a very quiet area. If she was able to scream loudly and people were outside it would probably be noticed.

But it was a 90 degree day in mid-August upping the chance that neighbors were inside with the a/c going or on vacation.

There has been some discussion on this forum of the possibility of her being gagged. An early interview w an forensic pathologist reveled she was burned post-mortem.
http://www.masslive.com/news/worces.../fbi_profiler_on_vanessa_marcotte_killer.html

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[Indy Anna]

Another question - does anyone know how long Vanessa's mom had been living in this town? I'm trying to figure out how long Vanessa had been coming to visit this area. I've heard no mention of her dad. Is he living, and if so where? Did Vanessa visit him often too, and how far is that from the mom's house?

BBM

Apparently, he lives in Leominster, which is 10 mi. from Princeton:


LEOMINSTER — The heartbroken father of Vanessa Marcotte, whose body was found in the woods off a rural road in Princeton Sunday, remembered his only child as a smart, hard-working young professional.

“She was a great kid,” John Marcotte said, pausing to take a deep breath, outside his home here Tuesday afternoon.

<snipped>
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...n-great-kid/mUTVnnhtLndONFAtwYld2H/story.html


Vanessa had dinner with her dad the previous (Saturday) night. I suspect (but am not certain), she also visited her dad twice/month while visiting family in Princeton.

 

[Indy Anna]

Well the houses are far apart but it's a very quiet area. If she was able to scream loudly and people were outside it would probably be noticed.

But it was a 90 degree day in mid-August upping the chance that neighbors were inside with the a/c going or on vacation.

There has been some discussion on this forum of the possibility of her being gagged. Also, I believe an early interview w a crime scene profiler mentioned the burns were post-mortem but I don't have the link handy and may be misremembering.


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Are any homes accessible from the cart path and, if so, how far from the road?

If VM were being chased by someone on the road, whether in a car or by foot, and there being little traffic on the road, might VM have taken a chance on trying to outrun her attacker -- running toward the nearest residence.

I don't know the answer to Roses' question about how long family members (VM's mother, aunt and uncle) have lived in Princeton, but assuming they've lived there long enough to be well acquainted with many of their neighbors, VM likely have felt comfortable running to a familiar residence for help.

If it's true that VM ran down the cart path away from her attacker but was outrun, that would suggest the killer is fit and probably young. Personally, I have pictured a young man out walking with a backpack, which could have included camping gear such as something to start a campfire.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Well the houses are far apart but it's a very quiet area. If she was able to scream loudly and people were outside it would probably be noticed.

But it was a 90 degree day in mid-August upping the chance that neighbors were inside with the a/c going or on vacation.

There has been some discussion on this forum of the possibility of her being gagged. Also, I believe an early interview w a crime scene profiler mentioned the burns were post-mortem but I don't have the link handy and may be misremembering.


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The pieces are starting to come together in my amateur profile.
I agree with said profiler. I think the burns were post mortem, and the oxygenation levels of the tissues will confirm or refute that.
He had this lay in wait maneuver well planned and prepared, and it was swiftly executed. We know she was alive long enough to fight, God Bless her. I hope she did some damage to this miscreant perp.
But he must have subdued her quickly before she could make much noise. A taser or a blow to the head?
Either he lured her in to the bushes, "can you help me, my girlfriend fell and is hurt" while hiking, or he pulled her in to a van and then finished his ritual off where she was found.
None thing we haven't explored are connections to the father, anyone living near his house where she visited. Even people at the Chop house from the night before. We have been focused on connections to mom, we should look where the dad lives too.