Tortoise
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Only a guess but maybe another trial is booked in or Desai is away? It's only like another 4 weeks time. I don't see it happening at this rate.
South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #1
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Only a guess but maybe another trial is booked in or Desai is away? It's only like another 4 weeks time. I don't see it happening at this rate.
Tortoise
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Dr Marianne Tiemensma an expert in forensic pathology and clinical forensics read out the two reports she had written after another doctor Dr Lizette Albertse had referred the Van Breda case to her.
"The wounds are superficial regular equal in depth parallel and in areas reachable to the person" she told the court.
Tiemensma said: "It is unlikely for the victim being attacked to stand still for wounds of that nature to be made. Those are not typical areas where one would find defensive wounds."
She added later: "These stand in strong contrast to the fatal injuries the rest of the family suffered."
...
Tiemensma also said she found it interesting that Van Breda's plea statement was so detailed when someone with a concussion would likely have remembered a lot less than that.
This infuriated his defence counsel Piet Botha who then brought the court to a halt accusing state advocate Susan Galloway of "ambushing"' and "disadvantaging [my client] and telling Judge Siraj Desai it had turned into a "trial by omission".
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...an-Breda-likely-‘self-inflicted’‚-court-hears
"The wounds are superficial regular equal in depth parallel and in areas reachable to the person" she told the court.
Tiemensma said: "It is unlikely for the victim being attacked to stand still for wounds of that nature to be made. Those are not typical areas where one would find defensive wounds."
She added later: "These stand in strong contrast to the fatal injuries the rest of the family suffered."
...
Tiemensma also said she found it interesting that Van Breda's plea statement was so detailed when someone with a concussion would likely have remembered a lot less than that.
This infuriated his defence counsel Piet Botha who then brought the court to a halt accusing state advocate Susan Galloway of "ambushing"' and "disadvantaging [my client] and telling Judge Siraj Desai it had turned into a "trial by omission".
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...an-Breda-likely-‘self-inflicted’‚-court-hears
Tortoise
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I was just flicking back to find out what date the trial started and I came across this old post from a year ago. It's a scenario I've had in mind too (minus the part about him knowing she had a good chance of survival). I wonder if they can tell from the stage of the blood clotting.
Tortoise
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There is a glimmer of hope now, I feel more positive than yesterday.
OH heard prolonged arguing that couldn't have come from houses either side.
The ambulance dispatcher didn't believe Henri, he wasn't convincing.
The expert thinks he inflicted his own injuries, the knife wouldn't have stayed in him at that depth, he would have had to be standing still to receive 4 parallel wounds in the same place, she casts doubt on him being unconscious for 4 hours
It looks as if Henri cleaned his prints from the axe handle or wore gloves when he was holding the axe
Intruder left no evidence
Possibly Henri cleaned away his own footprints
Henri wasn't afraid to come out and tackle the intruder after the family were massacred
He stood next to the emergency numbers smoking
The ladies in the family had no qualms about walking straight into the danger
It's a BS story......
More than enough evidence for a conviction.
OH heard prolonged arguing that couldn't have come from houses either side.
The ambulance dispatcher didn't believe Henri, he wasn't convincing.
The expert thinks he inflicted his own injuries, the knife wouldn't have stayed in him at that depth, he would have had to be standing still to receive 4 parallel wounds in the same place, she casts doubt on him being unconscious for 4 hours
It looks as if Henri cleaned his prints from the axe handle or wore gloves when he was holding the axe
Intruder left no evidence
Possibly Henri cleaned away his own footprints
Henri wasn't afraid to come out and tackle the intruder after the family were massacred
He stood next to the emergency numbers smoking
The ladies in the family had no qualms about walking straight into the danger
It's a BS story......
More than enough evidence for a conviction.
Interested Bystander
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I know you are well versed in the legal field and I value your knowledge but I am looking at it from a bystander's viewpoint (ie somebody who could well be a juror).
I think Galloway is not doing her best at the moment and I agree she should be intervening more but she may have more "up her sleeve" and by today's performance it seems she very likely has.
However Botha, to a lay person, appears to be doing everything he can to get a murderer off a guilty verdict. To me that is reprehensible. A good defence is always deserved, but arguing every point in minute detail the way he does, and is very well known for, shown by his historical success at getting murderers off, I find very irritating. That is, of course, why he is employed by persons very likely to be very guilty. I quite expect his expert witnesses will be 'in his pocket', much as we saw with Defence expert witnesses in the OP trial which is so very wrong. SA law has a long way to go to reach the standards of Australia and the UK.
PrimeSuspect
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It's a cliché thing to say, but how does Botha sleep at night?! (Probably quite comfortably on silk sheets and fluffy pillows.)
What Galloway has up her sleeve is HvB in the witness box after all the damning evidence presented against him!
She's up against it though because Botha will demand HvB be treated like a victim and a hero! Only in SA!!
Interested Bystander
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Prime, you are so right. I can hear the stuttering, see the tears and hear the lies already.
PrimeSuspect
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Yes, green bucket time, lol.
JudgeJudi
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HvB should be the first to testify for the defence and I still think Galloway will save her best and most incriminating evidence until last. The blood spatter evidence, medical and post mortem evidence describing exactly what happened to all the victims, will rattle HvB. If their injuries are described in detail, expect the tears to flow. This will place him at a psychological disadvantage when he takes the stand and Galloway should, to use a popular idiom, go for the jugular.
Last night I spent some time reading about jugular veins in order to understand how Marli could have survived for hours. Most of us have probably thought she would bleed out in a matter of minutes unless her throat was slit much later. That would definitely have happened if a carotid artery was cut.
The carotid arteries are two major blood vessels that lie in the front of the neck on either side of the trachea (windpipe) and carry blood from the heart to the brain. If they are cut or severed, bright red blood would spurt out with each heartbeat. A severed carotid would render you unconscious within 1-3 minutes or less and death would quickly follow, usually within 3-5 minutes.
The jugular is a vein and the blood is under much less pressure than an artery. There are four jugular veins, one internal and one external, on both left and right sides of the neck. These major veins carry deoxygenated blood from the brain towards the heart. They are relatively superficial and not protected by tissues such as bone or cartilage and this makes them susceptible to damage. Due to the large volumes of blood that flow through them, damaged jugular veins can quickly cause significant blood loss, which can lead to hypovolæmic shock and then death if not treated. You can survive much longer with a cut or severed jugular, as opposed to a carotid artery, but that’s usually as a result of pressure being applied to the wound and obviously this wouldn’t have happened with Marli. There are so many variables – which jugular vein, which side of the neck, were any other parts of the neck wounded, especially the trachea. I can’t provide any further useful info despite spending hours searching.
Last night I spent some time reading about jugular veins in order to understand how Marli could have survived for hours. Most of us have probably thought she would bleed out in a matter of minutes unless her throat was slit much later. That would definitely have happened if a carotid artery was cut.
The carotid arteries are two major blood vessels that lie in the front of the neck on either side of the trachea (windpipe) and carry blood from the heart to the brain. If they are cut or severed, bright red blood would spurt out with each heartbeat. A severed carotid would render you unconscious within 1-3 minutes or less and death would quickly follow, usually within 3-5 minutes.
The jugular is a vein and the blood is under much less pressure than an artery. There are four jugular veins, one internal and one external, on both left and right sides of the neck. These major veins carry deoxygenated blood from the brain towards the heart. They are relatively superficial and not protected by tissues such as bone or cartilage and this makes them susceptible to damage. Due to the large volumes of blood that flow through them, damaged jugular veins can quickly cause significant blood loss, which can lead to hypovolæmic shock and then death if not treated. You can survive much longer with a cut or severed jugular, as opposed to a carotid artery, but that’s usually as a result of pressure being applied to the wound and obviously this wouldn’t have happened with Marli. There are so many variables – which jugular vein, which side of the neck, were any other parts of the neck wounded, especially the trachea. I can’t provide any further useful info despite spending hours searching.
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