CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

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I know it’s been mentioned multiple times here, but I wonder if PF wasn’t the baby’s dad, and he found out. Maybe an attorney can chime in, but why would KB’s family automatically get custody of the baby? Why is that a given?
 
A couple of things I cannot sort out in my head-

1) Solicitation for Murder- I have to say, I did not see that coming. I thought spontaneous rage led to the murder. Not premeditation.

If you preplan a murder, you would know how the victim was going to be killed, you would minimize evidence behind and would dispose of evidence immediately, and you would have a plan for disposal of the body. You would not allow a bloody mess at the crime scene. You would indirectly tell a story by making it look like the victim left- take a suitcase of clothes and personal items. If you do these things properly, it makes things very difficult on LE.
Now we believe that there was evidence retrieved from the dump (I still question this); maybe paint cans. Huh, why wouldn't evidence be burnt immediately? There may be blood evidence at the condo, resulting from a violent crime. Surprising for a preplanned crime.

2) How could LE find something at the condo that they missed the first time? I realize the first visit was closer to a missing person's case, but still it is a small condo and the police utilize high tech techniques to reveal evidence. How could they miss blood evidence, or evidence "up high" in the condo? Surprising.

****
My thinking on Solicitation for Murder is that are putting the screws on someone(s) who LE knows gave advice towards executing the plan. They may not have evidence to charge involvement in SoM, so they are putting pressure on through the media release about more charges are possible related to SoM. They might be offering amnesty or leniency for information, even though they actually can't pursue actual charges.

Maybe this is why this person(s) has not been identified. Because they can't prove a Solicitation of Murder crime has been committed.

The last couple of days have been full of new information that makes me less clear on what actually happened!
 
enelram said:
If momma told LE the animals belonged to her son and especially if there was no supply of feed/hay in the barn, LE
WILL call animal control to come in and pick up animals.
Click to expand...
Or, if there is no one there to care for the animals. I think PF was the one taking care of all of them, not his mom. PF created a huge mess behind him....it's never "just" the crime that does damage.

jmo
 
The Night Watchman said:
A couple of things I cannot sort out in my head-

I thought spontaneous rage led to the murder. Not premeditation.

There may be blood evidence at the condo, resulting from a violent crime. Surprising for a preplanned crime.

****
My thinking on Solicitation for Murder is that are putting the screws on someone(s) who LE knows gave advice towards executing the plan.

.
Click to expand...
ETA , rather clumsily, my comments in the right place! Thanks for understanding. ITA
 
Last edited:
@Tippy Lynn this is your timeline that you posted on Friday at 1:52 pm.

Are you keeping an update such as the information we found out on Friday?

As time moves on in the case, it's great to have a timeline from the beginning because I think we're going to get a lot more information.


And now that we know another date is on the 15th of December the Twin Falls law enforcement was requested to help,(source
Idaho authorities announce evidence found in Kelsey Berreth case )
I would like to see that added to the timeline, and the date they determined that her house was indeed the crime scene and what was removed, etc.

There are probably a few other things that could be added by others if anybody wants to quote this and add to it?

November 22nd - Thursday
(Thanksgiving)
KB last seen on video surveillance shopping in Safeway (noon hour)
KB exchanged daughter with PF (fiancé)

November 25th - Sunday
Text from KB’s phone to her employer
KB's phone pinged in Gooding, ID (5:13 pm)
PF received text from KB’s phone

December 2nd - Sunday
KB's mom called PF on KB's whereabouts
Missing person reported - KB's mom (12:37 pm)

December 10th - Monday
Press Conference
Woodland Park Police Department

December 12th - Wednesday
PF Attorney releases statement - PF is cooperating with investigators

December 13th - Thursday
Candlelight Vigil Held for KB

December 14th - Friday
Search Warrant Franzee Property/Residence
Woodland Park Police said they are conducting interviews and casework and are working "around the clock" on the case.

December 16th - Sunday
The search of Patrick Frazee's property concludes Sunday night

December 18th - Tuesday
Five law enforcement vehicles seen leaving PF Property
PF and 2 others made trip to Waste Management Landfill

December 19th - Wednesday
LE at Kelsey’s Residence

December 20th - Thursday
LE at Kelsey’s Residence

December 21st - Friday
Arrested- 1st degree murder
Archonix XJail Public
Press Conference 10am MST
Woodland Park Police Department
 
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"Twin Falls County Sheriff’s Office and Twin Falls Police Department worked with the Colorado Bureau of Investigations (CBI) and the FBI to prepare and serve several search warrants as well as processing some items of evidence with the assistance of Twin Falls County and Twin Falls City Evidence Technicians.*

Twin Falls, ID
 
jillianelaine said:
Kelsey may have wanted a home with him because he is the father of her child. She wouldn't be the first successful person to have moved in with an underachiever. Some women like being the breadwinner.
Click to expand...
Snipped by me.

This is true. I was friends with a pastor in a mainline denomination church - well educated, very nice. As a pastor, he was not making a lot of money but that never something I thought about...until I visited his house. Wowzers - it was gorgeous. I had known his wife and knew she worked, but I didn't know she was the CEO of a major company in a lucrative industry! Her income not only provided for the family but also was a support for his work, which she valued.

It's possible Kelsey was okay with having a professional career while married to a good ol' boy....with the assumption that the boy was actually good. PF isn't good.

I still think Kelsey was sticking around because that's what her values taught her - to stick it out, even when things are tough. I don't think she was about to leave him, even if she wasn't happy with the situation. My hunch is, also, that PF's family didn't give her a warm welcome to the family, and that actually makes me really sad. :(

jmo
 
sun16 said:
I understand what we're saying or wondering regarding how many weeks or months they spent getting to know each other online or in person before KB moved to Colorado. I have all kinds of opinions on that. But ... no matter how short, no one deserves to be murdered. And I know we all are reasonable and agree with that. Perhaps after KB moved to CO and saw what PF and his life and environment were like ... but mostly how he is and behaves ... she was like “Oh....ugh, not good.” Could have just not been a good match. It happens. How it ended though—totally unnecessary! I’d love to hear from other ladies who interracted with PF or dated him.
Click to expand...
Fiance of missing mom Kelsey Berreth ‘punched a horse in the gut,’ cheated on his ex while she was in the hospital, sources claim: Report
The Daily Mail reportedly spoke to a woman who attended a vigil for Kelsey Berreth and had previously rodeoed with Frazee, until he decided she no longer wanted him near her horses.

“He worked on my horses for a real short time till he punched one in the gut with a rasp and that was about the last time I let him work on my horses,” Michelle Guteri told the Daily Mail.

The Daily Mail attempted to reach a former girlfriend of Frazee’s, who declined to speak, but her partner commented for the story, saying that he knew Frazee to be aggressive with horses and dogs but that he did not beat his girlfriends.

“He cheated on her while she was in the hospital, take that for what it’s worth,” the man said of his current partner’s former relationship with Frazee.
 
The Night Watchman said:
A couple of things I cannot sort out in my head-

1) Solicitation for Murder- I have to say, I did not see that coming. I thought spontaneous rage led to the murder. Not premeditation.

If you preplan a murder, you would know how the victim was going to be killed, you would minimize evidence behind and would dispose of evidence immediately, and you would have a plan for disposal of the body. You would not allow a bloody mess at the crime scene. You would indirectly tell a story by making it look like the victim left- take a suitcase of clothes and personal items. If you do these things properly, it makes things very difficult on LE.
Now we believe that there was evidence retrieved from the dump (I still question this); maybe paint cans. Huh, why wouldn't evidence be burnt immediately? There may be blood evidence at the condo, resulting from a violent crime. Surprising for a preplanned crime.

2) How could LE find something at the condo that they missed the first time? I realize the first visit was closer to a missing person's case, but still it is a small condo and the police utilize high tech techniques to reveal evidence. How could they miss blood evidence, or evidence "up high" in the condo? Surprising.

****
My thinking on Solicitation for Murder is that are putting the screws on someone(s) who LE knows gave advice towards executing the plan. They may not have evidence to charge involvement in SoM, so they are putting pressure on through the media release about more charges are possible related to SoM. They might be offering amnesty or leniency for information, even though they actually can't pursue actual charges.

Maybe this is why this person(s) has not been identified. Because they can't prove a Solicitation of Murder crime has been committed.

The last couple of days have been full of new information that makes me less clear on what actually happened!
Click to expand...
I think it's both. He did solicit someone to help w/ murder in
advance and he also lost it in a fit of anger/rage.
He seems impulsive to me, has anger control issues based
on comments from fellow rodeo people about his anger and
mistreatment of his horses. Temper problems, anger issues
and rage can all be related.
If he despised her enough to plan to get rid of her, it wouldn't
take much to push him over the edge to whack her off or
strangle her.
I wonder about his drug/alcohol use. He seems to have
trouble with self-control. Could also explain why all his
so-called jobs involve self-employment. Maybe he couldn't
pass a drug test to work for others. Big problem today in the
work world.
 
The Night Watchman said:
A couple of things I cannot sort out in my head-

1) Solicitation for Murder- I have to say, I did not see that coming. I thought spontaneous rage led to the murder. Not premeditation.
Click to expand...

ETA -- ahh, I see it's already been answered, but I'll leave my version as well.

ITA. I wonder if he was "playing around" with the idea, planning to get rid of her, but then on Thanksgiving, in a fit of rage, he killed her. Not a plan or as he planned.

His thinking skills appear to be severely lacking, so I'm guessing he may have prematurely killed her, although he intended to and would have later with a plan in place.

Or, Thanksgiving could have been his timing and the event did not go as he expected.

Just musing.
 
CuriousCricket said:
Hello,
I've noticed you leaning in this direction for awhile now. Did you think that before the solicitation charge as well or only after he was charged?

And is there anything in particular leading you there?

Thanks,
Click to expand...
Keen eye. The solicitation charge tipped the scale for me. With no witnesses in Colorado coming forward to say anything besides, "Ive seen them exchange the kid", I was confident they had not been a couple for a very long time. And for that reason, I thought they lacked the emotional investment necessary for the heated argument gone awry. I also did not believe custody issues were at stake. I don't think they planned on having a kid and for very different reasons, full time custody was not a viable option . Still, I was stumped. He appeared guilty, but what was the motive? When they announced the solicitation charge, I questioned why if he had the ability to kill her himself, hire someone and risk exposure--unless that second person knew him well and also had something to gain by silencing her. And I began to see PF in a new light. A ! It was said he trained dogs so I pondered whether he was involved in a dog-fighting ring. Or maybe involved with drugs. Something to earn some quick bucks. And maybe she knew too much. When all the information flowed in for the arrest, the timing and the charges led me to believe someone was talking. The person he solicited seemed like the only likely candidate. I hope that thoroughly answers your question!
 
PommyMommy said:
Fiance of missing mom Kelsey Berreth ‘punched a horse in the gut,’ cheated on his ex while she was in the hospital, sources claim: Report
Fiance of missing mom Kelsey Berreth ‘punched a horse in the gut,’ cheated on his ex while she was in the hospital, sources claim: Report
The Daily Mail reportedly spoke to a woman who attended a vigil for Kelsey Berreth and had previously rodeoed with Frazee, until he decided she no longer wanted him near her horses.

“He worked on my horses for a real short time till he punched one in the gut with a rasp and that was about the last time I let him work on my horses,” Michelle Guteri told the Daily Mail.

The Daily Mail attempted to reach a former girlfriend of Frazee’s, who declined to speak, but her partner commented for the story, saying that he knew Frazee to be aggressive with horses and dogs but that he did not beat his girlfriends.

“He cheated on her while she was in the hospital, take that for what it’s worth,” the man said of his current partner’s former relationship with Frazee.
Click to expand...
A real stand up guy. How dare him beat a horse!?!!:mad:
 
Mimi in London said:
Sorry, I added comments to part of NightWatchman’s post and it looked like part of his OP. I’m still learning.
Click to expand...

No problem. If you want to and can still edit the post you can move the comments down past the [ / Quote] part and it will put them below the quoted part. You probably already know that now :)
 
Could that big hole on the property have been a horse grave?
Moo
 
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