MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[adot0902]

I know my husband and know what he is like socially (2-3 beer guy) and if he isn't messaging me then something is weird. If I didn't hear from him I would have gone to where he was because I would have been worried something happened such as a fall or a car accident. We don't track each other's phones but we tell each other where we are going and often message each other and let the other know when we are leaving. If nobody answered the door I would have thought it was odd and thought they drank too much and passed out. I would have pounded on the door and then the windows. I would be mad. I would never think he had been doing drugs and overdosed. I would probably go home mad to wait it out but then when morning came I would start to really worry then go back and do the same thing. I can't say when I would involve the police or if I would even think of breaking in because it's a hypothetical question. If anything I would worry it was carbon monoxide poisoning inside the house or something.

It's funny how different people are, no way would I go home mad to wait (maybe I would in two weeks when the meds kick in fully and I'm not severely anxious, I'll get back to you on that). But that's what makes people interesting and why we are all different.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes. I agree there may not have been a door or at least there was no locked door. But AM couldn't have necessarily known that (unless houses in that area are routinely built without basement doors & I doubt that. All basements are not finished basements.) So it seems an odd choice to break in that way. I doubt AM had studied those real estate pictures. And if she'd never been to the house OR didn't know it pretty well, breaking in through the basement window, a window that is high above the basement floor so there's quite a drop, seems an odd choice. She could have encountered a locked door between the basement and the rest of the house and then been stuck in the basement. She wouldn't have been able to get out the way she came in given the window height or at least not easily. And she likely could see through the window to know it was high up before she broke in.

I don't know if we ever satisfactorily resolved where the basement window is ...if it's on the front of the house in a well or on the side we can't see. Preferring to go in on the side might make sense because presumably she wouldn't have wanted neighbors to see her breaking in and call police. (She hadn't called them herself for whatever reason.) So if the basement window is on the side maybe that's why she chose it. Otherwise breaking a pane in a big front window and reaching in to unlock it if necessary would seem more logical. Even going in through the big laundry window near the front door...But maybe she was worried about neighbors. MOO

BBM. We don't know all of the facts. AM may have been in the house previously.

It's a fairly common house design in that region which gets very cold in the winter. The basement does have a window because it is in the real estate photos.

JMO

 

[Sundog]

I wonder if the fiance told AM that he might not show up on Monday morning depending on the impact of their partying. So possibly AM didn't start worrying until Monday night, and it took her some time to find out the address from the 5th person or from a family member of the other friends who were in contact with #5. She may have been frantic on Tuesday and calling everyone she could think of until they were able to track down an address. Also, maybe it was a pattern for her fiance and his friends to be gone overnight when they were partying around something like a Chiefs' game.

I, personally, would have called LE and asked for a welfare check, letting them know that 3 men were missing and their cars were parked outside the house but were covered in snow and hadn't been touched since it snowed, and that the home owner/renter wasn't answering messages or his door. The other families could have been there, too, at least one or two of them (cousin, friend, other) to offer support and confirm the situation. If LE said there was nothing they could do, then I would have tried to get into the backyard to try to get the homeowner's attention that way and check if their was a way to get into the house through the back doors. I would try the garage door too, to see if it would open. If none of these options gave me access, I would attempt to get through the basement window. But I would either have someone with me or call someone to come as back up in case I got stuck or in trouble once inside.

But at that point, I wouldn't give up until I found out what was going on and why these men were missing.

 

[IceIce9]

I have to be honest, I'm very surprised by all the people who wouldn't break in. I'd have a credit card in that door slot so fast and be popped and in before a wine glass could have been picked up I don't care about a breaking and entering charge, BUT in 14 years my partner has never not come home or been home when he said he was going to be and I've been to jail (for a day, I didn't like it but I could survive a day for a B&E charge until it got worked out)

I have no problem breaking and entering if I believed someone’s life was at risk. Just the same as I wouldn’t hesitate to smash a window to get access to a pet or baby in a hot car.

Save the life and fine, arrest me afterwards, whatever.

 

[NCWatcher]

BBM. We don't know all of the facts. AM may have been in the house previously.

It's a fairly common house design in that region which gets very cold in the winter. The basement does have a window because it is in the real estate photos.

JMO

No, we certainly don't know all the facts. I definitely agree there is a very high small basement window that's far from the floor. I'm not sure if I agree in cold areas it's common to not have basement doors though. I'd think it would be even more common to want a door to be able to block off a cold basement from the rest of the living area.

I agree AM could have been in the house before. But being in a house for a social event is a bit different from knowing exactly where interior doors are that could be locked. I'd also think if she'd been there she might have been worried about breaking into a house where dogs normally live. Even friendly dogs may not be friendly under those circumstances and she couldn't know if the dogs were there (except that she couldn't hear them barking.) But they weren't there and she didn't get stuck in a blocked off basement.

IF the neighbor's account is correct though, she didn't wait indoors for LE. And we don't really know when she went out the back door or which door she used. More stuff we don't know! MOO

 

[10ofRods]

I know my husband and know what he is like socially (2-3 beer guy) and if he isn't messaging me then something is weird. If I didn't hear from him I would have gone to where he was because I would have been worried something happened such as a fall or a car accident. We don't track each other's phones but we tell each other where we are going and often message each other and let the other know when we are leaving. If nobody answered the door I would have thought it was odd and thought they drank too much and passed out. I would have pounded on the door and then the windows. I would be mad. I would never think he had been doing drugs and overdosed. I would probably go home mad to wait it out but then when morning came I would start to really worry then go back and do the same thing. I can't say when I would involve the police or if I would even think of breaking in because it's a hypothetical question. If anything I would worry it was carbon monoxide poisoning inside the house or something.

That's because you know your husband (and he's your husband - he's not your "fiancé of 12 years," which to me is quite different. And it seems to me that guys who bring 60 beers to a party are also not like your husband. There's NO way that my husband would go to a drinking party, period. Many reasons. He has done road trips by himself and he has gone off on worrisome outdoor adventures - so we of course have to tolerate some anxiety while we wait to hear from each other. I've gone off on conferences, solo outdoor adventures, etc., but we do keep to our plan of messaging. But not everyone is like this. My daughters are in the age group of this friend group and some of the stories I hear, well, it's quite clear that there are generational differences - and in one subset of friends, a lot of drinking, staying out late, leaving spouses home alone with babies, etc. Neither of my SiL's engage in all these behaviors, but some of their family members do.

But...one doesn't just run across fentanyl in a totally random way, IMO. At least one of the three deceased has a parent who mentioned problems with "drugs" in the past:

“He may have done some drugs and stuff in the past, but I do not believe all three of them did drugs and fell over dead in that backyard,” Johnson Sr. said of his son, who had three children of his own.

This was before the toxicology results, but Johnson Sr basically had the right scenario. I am guessing that all three friends occasionally used something more than legal weed. I don't think this was the very first time they used cocaine - as this parent notes, his son did "some drugs and stuff" in the past. I suspect all three (or all five) of them also did - after all, JW is in rehab for something and 5th Guy has a drug record.

Surely the SO's of these men (I don't think any were actually married at the time of their deaths, but that's just an opinion) would know something about their drug use?

We don't even know if any of these men were currently living with a partner or a roommate or anything at all about how often AM saw her fiancé.

IMO.

 

[December]

Yes, i would imagine that everyone's SO had an idea of past drug use. And i think they knew, a minimum, there would be heavy drinking at these football related get togethers.

Even though this fent stuff being so prevalent and so dangerous is next level; illegal drugs (and sometimes alcohol) has killed people in the past. Even groups of people. It's just rare if everyone is in their late 30s.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/NewsNationComms

@NewsNation's National Correspondent, @alcaprari23 reporting on the #KansasCity3 - @InsideEdition

https://twitter.com/x/status/1754576351690948993

 

[Pyrite]

To add to your answer:

You can voluntarily share your location with anyone in Messages, by sharing the same apple ID, by sharing your apple ID with them, or by sharing your location through Family Share.

I can see my entire family through Family Share even though we do not share Apple ID's and I don't know what their Apple Id's are. I also share my location with my sister though the Messages (because we hike a lot and she travels alone a lot).

And to add to your answer,
I just setup location sharing from my dad in Georgia on an android phone to me in Florida on an IPhone with a different carrier. You can share your location in google maps with anyone else using googles maps as long as you are both signed in to google maps. You can select the expiration or leave it as non expiring until manually canceled.

edited for clarity

 

[RstJ]

Outside or Inside?

JW's story (via his lawyer Picerno) has changed, not a lot, but every change has been focused on one really specific issue, for me the core of the case: why were these three victim's bodies found *outside* of a house they had easy access to?

Examples:

First:

“He was asleep. He was asleep on the couch. The last memory he has is of them leaving (out) the front door, he doesn’t know what happened, um, with them, until you know, when the police came Tuesday night to his house,” attorney John Picerno told New York Post. (from New York Post Jan 24)


Ok...


"First, he said he went to sleep, leaving David Harrington, 37, Ricky Johnson, 38, and Clayton McGeeney, 36 leaving them in his living room to 'hang out'. Then, the lawyer corrected himself, telling DailyMail.com earlier this week that he 'misspoke' and meant to say that Willis waved them off then went to bed, crashing on the couch first. "
Daily Mail link


Um...


Picerno said that after the friends went to his house following the Chiefs' game, Willis decided to sleep on his couch and said goodnight to his friends at around 2 a.m. He thought that they left out the front door,"
Picerno told KCTV (KCTV full coverage here)


And now....


"his client knew nothing about the men’s deaths and last saw them when they exited his home (somehow) and Willis went to bed" from Picerno Statement on behalf of Willis


It's becoming clear that the three victims were friendsn(as was the fifth man who left earlier.") Willis was not that well known to them or their social circles (McGeeny's fiancee didn't know Willis at all). Did anyone go looking for the victims at his house on Monday? Jan 8? Doesn't seem like it. So there is a possibility that JW really didn't know they were out there.

But if that's the case, why the different stories?

R.st.J

 

[katsrfun]

Idk what i would have done in the fiancee's place. But, JW's house has a garage. For all she knew, the house could have been totally empty. Because they left in his car. Or everyone was there and none of them could answer the door.

It's reported she called out to JW while she was in the house. I don't think she could know he was there until he answered the door for the police because it doesn't sound like she went upstairs. I think it's probably kind of obvious what the more social parts of the house are, so she looked at them first. It sounds like she went to the backyard fairly quickly which... Thinking about the fact it's winter makes me wonder if she could see something out of one of the windows which made her go out there.

I don't mean to start the window debate again. Remember, she was specifically there to find her fiance. She didn't live there, so she might have seen things from different angles, idk. JW, as far as we know, says he didn't know anyone was in the backyard. (We don't specifically know what he said to the police and it is possible they asked him not to reveal everything he told them to the public.)

I don't think it would occur to anyone to get a ladder and look over the fence at night in the winter. It had snowed the day she went over there. Because it is very unusual that they were all in the backyard let alone that they had been there for a couple of days.

I feel for her having to go through this. I don't want to second guess her just because I don't know her life, maybe everything she did is perfectly logical if we had more information than we do. I do think that if she encountered JW, she felt like he would not shoot her or anything like that.

I think I would have gone over there, probably sooner than she did. I may have called the police upon arrival, but if they weren't there yet, I would have tried to find the easiest way in, and if nothing was unlocked, would have broken in and dealt with any consequences of that. My husband and I have an agreement to either call each other or answer the phone when we reach our destination and periodically after that, not to chat, but to give an "all is good". If I had not heard from and he did not answer, I would be sure in my mind, there was something terribly wrong. I feel so bad for these men and all of their families and loved ones. May God comfort them. MOO. Thanks Katt

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Outside or Inside?

JW's story (via his lawyer Picerno) has changed, not a lot, but every change has been focused on one really specific issue, for me the core of the case: why were these three victim's bodies found *outside* of a house they had easy access to?

Examples:

First:

“He was asleep. He was asleep on the couch. The last memory he has is of them leaving (out) the front door, he doesn’t know what happened, um, with them, until you know, when the police came Tuesday night to his house,” attorney John Picerno told New York Post. (from New York Post Jan 24)


Ok...


"First, he said he went to sleep, leaving David Harrington, 37, Ricky Johnson, 38, and Clayton McGeeney, 36 leaving them in his living room to 'hang out'. Then, the lawyer corrected himself, telling DailyMail.com earlier this week that he 'misspoke' and meant to say that Willis waved them off then went to bed, crashing on the couch first. "
Daily Mail link


Um...


Picerno said that after the friends went to his house following the Chiefs' game, Willis decided to sleep on his couch and said goodnight to his friends at around 2 a.m. He thought that they left out the front door,"
Picerno told KCTV (KCTV full coverage here)


And now....


"his client knew nothing about the men’s deaths and last saw them when they exited his home (somehow) and Willis went to bed" from Picerno Statement on behalf of Willis


It's becoming clear that the three victims were friendsn(as was the fifth man who left earlier.") Willis was not that well known to them or their social circles (McGeeny's fiancee didn't know Willis at all). Did anyone go looking for the victims at his house on Monday? Jan 8? Doesn't seem like it. So there is a possibility that JW really didn't know they were out there.

But if that's the case, why the different stories?

R.st.J

Maybe JW himself doesn't really know.

 

[December]

I think I would have gone over there, probably sooner than she did. I may have called the police upon arrival, but if they weren't there yet, I would have tried to find the easiest way in, and if nothing was unlocked, would have broken in and dealt with any consequences of that. My husband and I have an agreement to either call each other or answer the phone when we reach our destination and periodically after that, not to chat, but to give an "all is good". If I had not heard from and he did not answer, I would be sure in my mind, there was something terribly wrong. I feel so bad for these men and all of their families and loved ones. May God comfort them. MOO. Thanks Katt

I think people can just have bad feelings about things sometimes.. jmo, hers were probably greatly increased when she saw the house, the vehicles that had obviously been parked a while, no one answered her knocking...

I am not saying people should run around breaking into houses over a bad feeling, but in this case, i can imagine it was quite overwhelming. It probably felt very urgent. For all we know, the sequence of events that transpired saved JW's life.

I think there are some details we won't know. Such as we only know JW was ever handcuffed because the neighbor saw. But, he didn't watch everything unfold, he went to bed. So, other things might have happened that won't ever be revealed because they were more about the police trying to process this situation.

Such as, imagine you are the police, you have a woman who doesn't live there and didn't search the whole house who found a man who was deceased. And tells them about two other missing men and points out their vehicles on the street. Then you have a man who does live there who wasn't answering his door and (from what we are led to believe) has no idea about any of this.

If i was a police officer, i might think there could even be more than three people deceased in the house. There could be more living people in the house. There could be a lot of things in the house, they don't know at that point. There could even be a crime in progress..so, they probably just want to assess the situation with the house first.

 

[SteveS]

... for me the core of the case: why were these three victim's bodies found *outside* of a house they had easy access to?

From what we've been hearing, it sounds like they didn't have any physical ability (or consciousness) to use such access.

Their drug use was apparently layered onto hours of ingesting alcohol, and also marijuana was in the mix, both of which would have lessened their senses and made them less aware of the deadly impact of the harder drugs.

Although none of that may have mattered, given the harder drugs they used.

It's possible that they were so "drowsy" and such from the alcohol and weed, that they were using the coke to make them alert enough to drive home. Maybe they felt extra slowed, and the need to take far more coke than usual.

In any event, all the evidence has pointed to the idea that they ingested enough fentanyl, multiple times the lethal dosage, far more than enough to cause them to collapse dead on the spot, or go unconscious and be soon to die. Having "access" to enter the house is of no use to a dead or unconscious person. Maybe after collapsing they then froze to death while unconscious, or maybe the drugs killed by making their head explode first (cocaine can also cause instant death), but either possibility precludes getting up and walking in the door.

 

[NCWatcher]

Just my feeling

- AM has lived with CM long enough to know he had a SA problem
- he either got clean or told her he did. They were engaged, so maybe he promised her to stay clean at engagement
- people who have someone in recovery in the family live under constant fear of the person relapsing
- so when he didn’t return and no one returned her calls, the possibility of it - and anxiety - mounted, until she simply had to check
- I hope AM doesn’t blame herself for not acting sooner, because, tbh, nothing could help the three victims after it happened

Absolutely nothing could have been done by the time AM or anyone else could have slightly suspected something could be wrong. I certainly wasn't suggesting she could have altered the outcome. And you may be right in your hypotheses (although I'm not sure how recent the engagement was.) But I still do find it odd no one called the police to try to get a "wellness" check. I'm not sure the police would have broken down the door because 3 guys didn't go home after a party but they might have knocked loudly. (I'm not saying the men could have been saved though.) But it's possible until later in the day Tues, it wasn't all that an unusual situation. Perhaps the men often "stayed over" after sports gatherings. I would like to know though which family member said they were alive at 1:30 or 2 Monday am as has been reported by some outlets.
MOO

 

[10ofRods]

From what we've been hearing, it sounds like they didn't have any physical ability (or consciousness) to use such access.

Their drug use was apparently layered onto hours of ingesting alcohol, and also marijuana was in the mix, both of which would have lessened their senses and made them less aware of the deadly impact of the harder drugs.

Although none of that may have mattered, given the harder drugs they used.

It's possible that they were so "drowsy" and such from the alcohol and weed, that they were using the coke to make them alert enough to drive home. Maybe they felt extra slowed, and the need to take far more coke than usual.

In any event, all the evidence has pointed to the idea that they ingested enough fentanyl, multiple times the lethal dosage, far more than enough to cause them to collapse dead on the spot, or go unconscious and be soon to die. Having "access" to enter the house is of no use to a dead or unconscious person. Maybe after collapsing they then froze to death while unconscious, or maybe the drugs killed by making their head explode first (cocaine can also cause instant death), but either possibility precludes getting up and walking in the door.

Indeed, what puzzles me now is the fact that if we assume they had a pretty massive fentanyl overdose, it could have happened in as short a period as 15 seconds to 1 minute to unconsciousness. People at parties do fall down drunk or unconscious (or collapse into a chair). I think a lot more education should be done with young people around the issue of how NOT funny it is if a person is suddenly apparently "napping" in a chair or on the floor, when just seconds before they were chipper. Alcohol can do this too, and people think all the steps leading up to a black out (staggering around, slurring words, are FUNNY). It's not funny. If a person suddenly nods off, check 'em! Can you rouse them? If talking loudly in their face doesn't work, teach kids basic techniques for attempting to rouse (a pinch on the cheek, shaking an arm, then a leg). If young people realized that an unrousable friend is a potentially dead friend, and did not think it was TikTok funny, that would be an improvement.

Cocaine can indeed also cause instant death. They had two such drugs on board.

IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Absolutely nothing could have been done by the time AM or anyone else could have slightly suspected something could be wrong. I certainly wasn't suggesting she could have altered the outcome. And you may be right in your hypotheses (although I'm not sure how recent the engagement was.) But I still do find it odd no one called the police to try to get a "wellness" check. I'm not sure the police would have broken down the door because 3 guys didn't go home after a party but they might have knocked loudly. (I'm not saying the men could have been saved though.) But it's possible until later in the day Tues, it wasn't all that an unusual situation. Perhaps the men often "stayed over" after sports gatherings. I would like to know though which family member said they were alive at 1:30 or 2 Monday am as has been reported by some outlets.
MOO

BBM. I find it odd, too. If nobody had answered the door, LE would have contacted the fire dept. because carbon monoxide poisoning would have been a possibility.

JMO

Kansas City police release identities of 3 killed by carbon monoxide poisoning

Bernardo Valladares, 57; Carlos Carazo, 33; and Milton Gutierrez, 28, died inside a house off Fuller Avenue last Saturday after running a generator inside.

www.kmbc.com

 

[charminglane]

We also don't know how long the men were drinking that day, as well as what they were drinking.
While 2 30 pack suitcases of beer is a large amount, it may have been on sale, they wanted to leave some for JE for the week, etc.
Their drinking might have taken place wherever they were all day long. The 30 packs might have been for winding down.
We don't know what or how much alcohol/drugs were consumed before they even arrived at JW's and continued to indulge in various substances.

 

[MyBelle]

We also don't know how long the men were drinking that day, as well as what they were drinking.
While 2 30 pack suitcases of beer is a large amount, it may have been on sale, they wanted to leave some for JE for the week, etc.
Their drinking might have taken place wherever they were all day long. The 30 packs might have been for winding down.
We don't know what or how much alcohol/drugs were consumed before they even arrived at JW's and continued to indulge in various substances.

I think the reason the guys bought the beer is most likely because JW only drinks wine and they only drink beer.

JMO

 

[IceIce9]

I think the reason the guys bought the beer is most likely because JW only drinks wine and they only drink beer.

JMO

Right, my thoughts as well.

When my frioand I have a get together usually people bring cases of beer. Not everyone likes the same beer, the kinds of beer that each individual or couple likes to drink.