MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

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rebelchild said:
I think I would have called police first .. I would have been too scared to break in to someones home that I didn't know. I would have been thinking the homeowner might own a gun. Now if it were my child inside that house, I may think about it. But these were grown men. I just can't wrap my head around the breaking into a so called strangers home without notifying the police. Not trying to victim shame her at all, just saying I don't think I could have made the same moves that she did.
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Police in my area would not come or take their sweet time coming if I called up and said, "I think my boyfriend is in this house and he's not answering the door." That's a non-urgent welfare check. AM was way past that.

I think she knew JW's reputation well enough to know he wasn't an outright gun toting homeowner - but yes, that would be a concern.

I could easily have made the same moves as she did. And I might have called a LE friend to get off the court advice. If she had notified the police that she was about to break in, I'm not sure how that would go. She clearly had (and deservedly so) an intense sense of urgency. Panic, probably.

I doubt you or I will ever be in this circumstance, but if I am, I will likely act first (and that's what most off-duty LE do, as well - calling for a welfare check on grown men is not a huge priority, most places - even on game day or the day after).

AM did somewhat know JW (he was a friend of her fiancé). In that circumstances, I'd have had such high emotion that I would probably have done something. Breaking glass, well...I probably would have tried dragging something to the gate to hop over and peer in windows first.

Which reminds me. Surely AM could see nothing from the front yard, through any windows. My dad taught me how to break one pane without hurting myself (just in case), so I don't know what I'd have done. I'd probably be so angry at the whole situation that I'd sit in the front yard and call LE, Fire Department, etc., until they came. It might have taken hours more and I'd be left with guilt over my slowness.

IMO.
 
Megnut said:
Do we know from MSM her frame of mind? Lives are complex. Perhaps she had been angry (he didn't come home), then worried he hadn't come home, then annoyed he wasn't responding to her calls. Rather than believing he might be dead in someone's back yard, maybe she thought he turned his phone off because he involved with someone. Maybe that's why she broke in, expecting to confront him. Regardless, I can't fathom the trauma of discovering him in that state. That's a mental picture that won't go away.

It's all so sad.

Everyone expected to see the next day.

JMO
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ITA.
Wondering if the families will bring a civil suit ?
I'm assuming they still have questions.
Omo.
 
No way would I have ever broken into that house, or any house ever. We have no idea how the police would have responded if she had called them first but I tend to believe that they would have shown up and at least tried to contact the occupant.

I was staying at a rental home I have cleaning it after the tenant left and I got the loud banging at the door. Sure enough it was the police and they were doing a welfare check on the man that lived next door. They had knocked at his door and peeked in his windows and thought no one was home. They also opened the garage door and noticed no car in there. Then they came over to my house to see if I knew anything. I explained that I did not live there but was familar with him and that as far as I knew during the day his car was parked in the driveway and that at night he put it in the garage. I had not seen the car in the three days that I had been there. They asked questions about him, family, etc and I told them that I didn't know much other than his name, he was retired, and that the neighbor on the other side of the house said he was a creep and she saw his car at a strip joint every time she drove by there. The cops then laughed and said that it was a stripper that reported him missing as he had not shown up in a few days and was worried. How she knew where he lived I have no idea. Anyway, they left a card with a note to call them on his return and also left one for me. He appeared a couple days later and came over to apologize and said he had been visiting his sister out of town. Now whether they would have broken in if his car was in the garage, or they had not spoken to me I have no idea. But they did show up for his dancer friend.
 
iridized said:
No way would I have ever broken into that house, or any house ever. We have no idea how the police would have responded if she had called them first but I tend to believe that they would have shown up and at least tried to contact the occupant.

I was staying at a rental home I have cleaning it after the tenant left and I got the loud banging at the door. Sure enough it was the police and they were doing a welfare check on the man that lived next door. They had knocked at his door and peeked in his windows and thought no one was home. They also opened the garage door and noticed no car in there. Then they came over to my house to see if I knew anything. I explained that I did not live there but was familar with him and that as far as I knew during the day his car was parked in the driveway and that at night he put it in the garage. I had not seen the car in the three days that I had been there. They asked questions about him, family, etc and I told them that I didn't know much other than his name, he was retired, and that the neighbor on the other side of the house said he was a creep and she saw his car at a strip joint every time she drove by there. The cops then laughed and said that it was a stripper that reported him missing as he had not shown up in a few days and was worried. How she knew where he lived I have no idea. Anyway, they left a card with a note to call them on his return and also left one for me. He appeared a couple days later and came over to apologize and said he had been visiting his sister out of town. Now whether they would have broken in if his car was in the garage, or they had not spoken to me I have no idea. But they did show up for his dancer friend.
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That's actually really sweet. Shows that people were looking out for him, whatever the neighbour thought of him.

I think that it's different in a case like this where the missing men were not at their own home. It becomes a bit more important that the police attempt contact with the homeowner before entry.

MOO
 
She could have gone to a neighbor and asked them if they had seen anything, or borrow a chair or ladder to look in the back yard.
iamshadow21 said:
That's actually really sweet. Shows that people were looking out for him, whatever the neighbour thought of him.

I think that it's different in a case like this where the missing men were not at their own home. It becomes a bit more important that the police attempt contact with the homeowner before entry.

MOO
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Yes, of course, and that is what they did. They did not break down the door even though I assume she told them she saw a dead body. And assume told them that others had been trying to reach them during the day and that it was unusual for them to miss work (?), etc. What I don't understand is why she did not try and knock on a neighbor's door to ask if they had seen anything regarding the men, cars moving, etc. Borrow a chair or a ladder to peak in the back yard. Ask for assistance. She just plain and simple broke in.
 
Megnut said:
Do we know from MSM her frame of mind? Lives are complex. Perhaps she had been angry (he didn't come home), then worried he hadn't come home, then annoyed he wasn't responding to her calls. Rather than believing he might be dead in someone's back yard, maybe she thought he turned his phone off because he was involved with someone. Maybe that's why she broke in, expecting to confront him. Regardless, I can't fathom the trauma of discovering him in that state. That's a mental picture that won't go away.

It's all so sad.

Everyone expected to see the next day.

JMO
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That's exactly what I would have been thinking too. Very sad.
 
In response to LI payout questions, this post is about LI POLICY CLAIM PROCESSING generally and not to predict whether LI policy (if any) payouts will be made. Posting separately on MO. LAW & SUICIDE.

The LI co’s review of claims for payment is usually rather straightforward.
Seeing SAMPLE Death Certificate FORM* helps in understanding how LI co. reviews the DC as part of the claims process, esp’ly these two questions.

--- Q 32. CAUSE of DEATH, listing “Chain of events leading directly to death.”

As a hypothetical ex., DC states COD was HYPOTHERMIA w more med. detail re “chain of events leading to death,” including toxicology test findings of cocaine, fentanyl, & THC.
Or as a hypothetical ex., DC states CoD was FENTANYL OVERDOSE w more med. detail re chain of events leading to death, including toxicology test findings of cocaine & THC; hypothermia.
W a quick search online, TBH, I did not locate a sample DC w a “chain of events” starting w a drug overdose, so my ^ medical phrasing is likely a bit wonky.

But on to the more crucial question.
--- Q 37. MANNER of DEATH. If other possible MoD classifications -"natural," "pending investigation and "could not determine" - do not apply, then answer is one of these: “homicide” or “accident” or “suicide.” Again, see sample DC at link.
For ex., DC states “HOMICIDE” or “ACCIDENT.” I’ll write about “suicide” separately, so this does not turn into a Book. ;)

In reviewing a claim w DC showing MD as HOMICIDE or ACCIDENT, LI co. normally, routinely pays the DEATH BENEFIT. But there are EXCEPTIONS, such as:
--- When a person applying for LI policy provided inaccurate info on application, esp'ly re medical history.
--- Suicide occurred within a certain number of years after policy is issued.

imo ime Welcoming clarification/ correction esp’ly from those who posted re life ins. In no particular order: @MyBelle …. @branmuffin …… @Forest_Wood ……… @Shamrock1 ..... Anyone?

Editted a few phrases for clarification.
______________________________________
* "U.S. Standard Certificate of Death" form. Rev. 11/2003.
 
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Idk what i would have done in the fiancee's place. But, JW's house has a garage. For all she knew, the house could have been totally empty. Because they left in his car. Or everyone was there and none of them could answer the door.

It's reported she called out to JW while she was in the house. I don't think she could know he was there until he answered the door for the police because it doesn't sound like she went upstairs. I think it's probably kind of obvious what the more social parts of the house are, so she looked at them first. It sounds like she went to the backyard fairly quickly which... Thinking about the fact it's winter makes me wonder if she could see something out of one of the windows which made her go out there.

I don't mean to start the window debate again. Remember, she was specifically there to find her fiance. She didn't live there, so she might have seen things from different angles, idk. JW, as far as we know, says he didn't know anyone was in the backyard. (We don't specifically know what he said to the police and it is possible they asked him not to reveal everything he told them to the public.)

I don't think it would occur to anyone to get a ladder and look over the fence at night in the winter. It had snowed the day she went over there. Because it is very unusual that they were all in the backyard let alone that they had been there for a couple of days.

I feel for her having to go through this. I don't want to second guess her just because I don't know her life, maybe everything she did is perfectly logical if we had more information than we do. I do think that if she encountered JW, she felt like he would not shoot her or anything like that.
 
If any post on SUICIDE & LIFE INS. quoted MISSOURI STATUTE, I missed it, so hoping this sheds light. I'm posting only about Suicide Exclusion Clause in Missouri statute and NOT offering an opinion about whether it would apply to LI policies (if any) of the deceased or others involved.

AFAIK Medical Examiner has not issued a Death Certificate showing MoD for any of the three men, so our discussion about suicide is mere speculation.
Suicide Exclusion Clause aka Suicide Clause in LI policies.* A general definition below.

Missouri law re suicide-exclusion clause ** has four components:
(1) IF LI policy is issued or delivered in MO, and
(2) IF death occurs within ONE YEAR of LI policy issue, and
(3) IF the “exclusion or restriction” is “clearly stated” in policy, and
(4) IF DeathCert shows MoD as SUICIDE,
then LI co. may exclude liability. IOW, not pay death benefit.

Example of circumstance when LI co. could deny payment:
If KC, MO resident consults ins. agent in KC, KS office just across state line and if agent later DELIVERS policy to him in MO, this section of MO law allows the LI co. to deny claim.
And as stated in previous post, LI co. could deny payment, based on a non-suicide basis, such as inaccurate medical history on policy application.

Other states set their own suicide-exclusion provisions.

IF LI co excludes liability under its suicide clause w’in one year of issue of policy, (IOW, denies payment of death benefits), per MO. statute,** LI co. "shall promptly refund all premiums paid."**

imo ime Welcoming clarification/ correction esp’ly those who posted re life ins & suicide. In no particular order: @MyBelle …. @branmuffin ……. @Forest_Wood ……… @Shamrock1. Anyone?

Editted a few phrases for clarification.
___________________________________________
*suicide clause ( From www.law.cornell.edu)

** MO. law re Life Ins.
"376.620. Suicide, effect on liability — refund of premiums, when."
"1. Any life insurance policy... issued or delivered in this state may exclude or restrict liability for death as the result of suicide within one year from the date of the issue of such policy.... Any such exclusion or restriction shall be clearly stated in such policy..." (sbm)
" 2. Any life insurance policy... which contains any exclusion or restriction under subsection 1 of this section shall also provide that in the event the insured dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of issue of such policy...that the insurer shall promptly refund all premiums paid for the excluded or restricted coverage on such insured." (sbm)
revisor.mo.gov

376.620

Suicide, effect on liability — refund of premiums, when.
revisor.mo.gov revisor.mo.gov
 
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al66pine said:
If any post on SUICIDE EXCLUSION CLAUSE quoted MISSOURI STATUTE, I missed it, so hoping this sheds light.
I'm posting only about Suicide Exclusion Clause in Missouri law and NOT whether offering an opinion about whether it would apply to LI policies (if any) of the deceased or others involved.

AFAIK Medical Examiner has not issued a Death Certificate showing MoD for any of the three men, so our discussion about suicide is mere speculation. Nevertheless, re a hypothetical LI policy:

Suicide Exclusion Clause aka Suicide Clause in LI policies.* A general definition below.

Missouri law re suicide-exclusion clause ** has four components:
(1) IF LI policy is issued or delivered in MO, and
(2) IF death occurs within ONE YEAR of LI policy issue, and
(3) IF the “exclusion or restriction” is “clearly stated” in policy, and
(4) IF DeathCert shows MoD as SUICIDE,
then LI co. may exclude liability. IOW, not pay death benefit.

Example of circumstance when LI co. could deny payment:
If KC, MO resident consults ins. agent in KC, KS office just across state line and if agent later DELIVERS policy to him in MO, this section of MO law allows the LI co. to deny claim.
And as stated in previous post, LI co. could deny payment, based on a non-suicide basis, such as inaccurate medical history on policy application.

Other states set their own suicide-exclusion provisions.

IF LI co excludes liability under its suicide clause w’in one year of issue of policy, (IOW, denies payment of death benefits), per MO. statute,** LI co. "shall promptly refund all premiums paid."**

imo ime Welcoming clarification/ correction esp’ly those who posted re life ins & suicide.
In no particular order: @MyBelle …. @branmuffin ……. @Forest_Wood ……… @Shamrock1. Anyone?

___________________________________________
*suicide clause

** MO. law re Life Ins.
"376.620. Suicide, effect on liability — refund of premiums, when."
"1. Any life insurance policy... issued or delivered in this state may exclude or restrict liability for death as the result of suicide within one year from the date of the issue of such policy.... Any such exclusion or restriction shall be clearly stated in such policy..." (sbm)
" 2. Any life insurance policy... which contains any exclusion or restriction under subsection 1 of this section shall also provide that in the event the insured dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of issue of such policy...that the insurer shall promptly refund all premiums paid for the excluded or restricted coverage on such insured." (sbm)
revisor.mo.gov

376.620

Suicide, effect on liability — refund of premiums, when.
revisor.mo.gov revisor.mo.gov
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Thank you. Industry standards in Canada in regards to suicide is less than 24 months.
Is it state based in the US? Strangely enough, in Canada it was an insurance company that wanted to relax the regulations in extraordinary circumstances.
See link.
montreal.ctvnews.ca

Montreal-based Sun Life insurance wants industry to review suicide rules

The head of Sun Life's Canadian operations wants his industry to relax the restrictions surrounding life insurance benefits in the event of suicide in order to take into account the exceptional context of certain tragedies.
montreal.ctvnews.ca montreal.ctvnews.ca
 
Megnut said:
Everyone expected to see the next day.
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They always do. We ALL do.

None of us really know when the rug will be ripped out from underneath. When she visited the home in search of answers and her man, I believe she was simply beyond desperate. Desperate times (moments) call for desperate measures. That’s what she took. It paid off and she discovered the scene. It’s true it can never be UNSEEN - and the entire fiasco is an unimaginable nightmare of epic proportion. It’s happening with much more frequency. F…is everywhere.
 
rebelchild said:
that was sure ballsy of her to break in to someones home that she had never met. I don't think I would have been able to ever do something like that at a friends home, let alone a strangers home.
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Maybe AM knew her boyfriend's history of using drugs? Maybe she had an app that could track his phone and knew it was there? Maybe she feared they all were dead and didn't want LE to know about the drugs? His uncle had told the news media about his motorcycle accident and several weeks hospitalization two years prior. I've never walked in her shoes and give her the benefit of the doubt.

The is so much about this case we still don't know.

JMO
 
NCWatcher said:
Honestly, I do not know what I would have done under those circumstances. I think I'd have called the police much earlier even if I was worried I might get my loved one "in trouble." But as @Megnut stated, we don't know what AM thought was going on.

Regardless, I don't think I would have chosen to break in through what was obviously a basement window. Unless there is a peculiar house design difference common to that geographical area, often there is a locked door between the basement and the main house. She couldn't have known there wasn't in this case unless she knew the house and knew the renter's habits. We have no evidence she did, so I don't quite understand why if she was willing to break in, she didn't try to get in through a main floor window on the front of the house.

Plus, IF she did know JW & did know his house, I would have thought she'd have been a bit worried about his pit bulls being there when breaking in. I do not think pitties are especially vicious compared to other dogs but ANY dog is likely to defend her home. And a pair of larger dogs may be hard to deal with. MOO
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In one of the real estate photos that showed the basement, the stairs to the basement curved and were also carpeted. That's a sign to me that there was no door between the basement and the entertainment room.

JMO
 
10ofRods said:
Police in my area would not come or take their sweet time coming if I called up and said, "I think my boyfriend is in this house and he's not answering the door." That's a non-urgent welfare check. AM was way past that.

I think she knew JW's reputation well enough to know he wasn't an outright gun toting homeowner - but yes, that would be a concern.

I could easily have made the same moves as she did. And I might have called a LE friend to get off the court advice. If she had notified the police that she was about to break in, I'm not sure how that would go. She clearly had (and deservedly so) an intense sense of urgency. Panic, probably.

I doubt you or I will ever be in this circumstance, but if I am, I will likely act first (and that's what most off-duty LE do, as well - calling for a welfare check on grown men is not a huge priority, most places - even on game day or the day after).

AM did somewhat know JW (he was a friend of her fiancé). In that circumstances, I'd have had such high emotion that I would probably have done something. Breaking glass, well...I probably would have tried dragging something to the gate to hop over and peer in windows first.

Which reminds me. Surely AM could see nothing from the front yard, through any windows. My dad taught me how to break one pane without hurting myself (just in case), so I don't know what I'd have done. I'd probably be so angry at the whole situation that I'd sit in the front yard and call LE, Fire Department, etc., until they came. It might have taken hours more and I'd be left with guilt over my slowness.

IMO.
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I do wonder if the responding LE asked her how she got inside the house because if she had told them, I think they would have placed her in handcuffs as well.

JMO
 
10ofRods said:
I think they likely could locate at least one victim phone ("they" meaning the people looking for them). It's likely that they knew exactly where the friends were going that night and certain the 5th guy knew everyone and as posted in a link above, had been in touch with the families/friends and had also texted JW. 5th guy certainly knew where he had last seen those men and he was in contact with AM and others, IMO.

Somewhere, it's stated that she told reporters that she pulled up and "saw the cars" of the victims. So she knew her partner was there.



I wouldn't be able to jump the fence (I could climb over it from the inside, because the structure of the back of the fence/gate is ladder-like). She must have felt desperate. Also, she likely believed the men were in the house - not in the backyard. A lot of us would consider doing what she did, though, under those circumstances.

And if you believed, in all hope, that they were inside the house, somehow - getting into the backyard would not locate them. I'm an eternal optimist, I would have wanted to believe my guy was okay, just hung over (although at two days past game day...I'm not sure what I would have thought or if I'd be thinking well).

IMO.
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I do agree mostly, but I think I would have called the police first, even if they told me they couldn't do anything, I still would of called them first before breaking in and I would have got into the backyard, wether finding a way to climb or breaking the gate, before breaking in to the house.
But that is just me, I would also have been there or called the police Monday.
Jmo
 
Megnut said:
Do we know from MSM her frame of mind? Lives are complex. Perhaps she had been angry (he didn't come home), then worried he hadn't come home, then annoyed he wasn't responding to her calls. Rather than believing he might be dead in someone's back yard, maybe she thought he turned his phone off because he was involved with someone. Maybe that's why she broke in, expecting to confront him. Regardless, I can't fathom the trauma of discovering him in that state. That's a mental picture that won't go away.

It's all so sad.

Everyone expected to see the next day.

JMO
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I thought she found David Harrington in the chair and then ran to the front and called 911; her fiance is Clayton McGeeney - he and Ricky Johnson were found by the police in the yard (I thought!) ... however I can't find this info and I just read like 6 different articles. All the early articles just say she found 'a body' and the police found the other two bodies. So maybe I'm wrong. JMO
 
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