NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15

[KindMind1ofA]

Have attention to Maura gone missing since before a WS member and look in every several years (like now).

My theory is simple.

Maura had issues like the car accident, problem drinking, boyfriend, etc. Bugged out to somewhere familiar from past to catch her breath. Maura slid off the road because of road conditions and intoxication. Left the vehicle in a hurry and out of sight because she did not want a DUI. Took along booze in her depression and desperation. Food a place to hole up with some shelter, maybe a shed or under a rock overhang or whatever; depressed but thinking she would be sober when woke. Given her physical condition, Maura could be miles from the vehicle. Maura drank to oblivion and froze and has never been found.

Hard to argue with that.

 

[carbuff]

Have attention to Maura gone missing since before a WS member and look in every several years (like now).

My theory is simple.

Maura had issues like the car accident, problem drinking, boyfriend, etc. Bugged out to somewhere familiar from past to catch her breath. Maura slid off the road because of road conditions and intoxication. Left the vehicle in a hurry and out of sight because she did not want a DUI. Took along booze in her depression and desperation. Food a place to hole up with some shelter, maybe a shed or under a rock overhang or whatever; depressed but thinking she would be sober when woke. Given her physical condition, Maura could be miles from the vehicle. Maura drank to oblivion and froze and has never been found.

Sadly, this is what I think happened as well.

 

[MysteryMaven]

The number of people who think MM was not the person driving the car is surprising to me.
We can see her in the ATM stills. Although not the best quality it would be hard to make a compelling argument for a MM lookalike driving her car in the area she searched up on her computer.

As someone else mentioned I wish detailed search information was available. Like I want to see the aerial grid of the search area, what was the radius, what times of year were searches done? Is there private land that hasn’t been searched?
I think she is there somewhere.

 

[geojeffrey]

Have attention to Maura gone missing since before a WS member and look in every several years (like now).

My theory is simple.

Maura had issues like the car accident, problem drinking, boyfriend, etc. Bugged out to somewhere familiar from past to catch her breath. Maura slid off the road because of road conditions and intoxication. Left the vehicle in a hurry and out of sight because she did not want a DUI. Took along booze in her depression and desperation. Food a place to hole up with some shelter, maybe a shed or under a rock overhang or whatever; depressed but thinking she would be sober when woke. Given her physical condition, Maura could be miles from the vehicle. Maura drank to oblivion and froze and has never been found.

Its a very solid possibility!! But, i still wonder about the polcie vehicle that was reported by a witness at the scene soon after the accident--Julie Murray hass discussed this and it is strange.

 

[annpats]

One thing that I don't think is given enough consideration is that Maura was a legit runner. I have no problem imagining her jogging several miles to get away from the scene of the accident before looking for shelter.

Yeh, but I'm not sure how much of a runner anyone is in snow with just sneakers on. And a backpack with glass bottles of alcohol in (which was missing from her car, IIRC.)

 

[annpats]

Its a very solid possibility!! But, i still wonder about the polcie vehicle that was reported by a witness at the scene soon after the accident--Julie Murray hass discussed this and it is strange.

It definitely is a discrepancy that can't be ignored. There was a witness, a lady in a car that saw a police (or state trooper) vehicle drive past her....twice.

Some of the incoming and outgoings phone calls from Maura's phone were also a little strange. There was the pizza store phone calls at 3am, even after the place was shut.
There was also the phone call she made to the lady social worker whom she didn't actually know, and which wouldn't have had anything to do with her college course.
Plus then there was the Red Cross emergency phone card that was used to call someone.
Also, the accident near campus where she knocked a young guy over, that was another odd incident.
Plenty more.

She certainly had a lot going on in her life.

 

[Laughing]

Yeh, but I'm not sure how much of a runner anyone is in snow with just sneakers on. And a backpack with glass bottles of alcohol in (which was missing from her car, IIRC.)

Remember though that MM started her college career at West Point.

Running with a loaded backpack is not unusual in the Army. MM likely had numerous road miles with loads of different weights, up to 60 pounds as I understand it.

Example for the annual Bataan Memorial Death March ruck:

Ruck plus frame must equal 35 lbs.

FAQs

bataanmarch.com

And, if you've never heard of the Bataan Death March -- please read the synopsis on this website.

My grandmother's next-door-neighbor was a survivor.

Just up the hill, is a park -- with a marker as it was the site of a relocation camp for those of Japanese heritage.

Oh, New Mexico is multi-cultural!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[annpats]

Remember though that MM started her college career at West Point.

Running with a loaded backpack is not unusual in the Army. MM likely had numerous road miles with loads of different weights, up to 60 pounds as I understand it.

True, but would she have done any winter/snow marching at West Point?
Winter cross-country running in snow and ice?
Even people who have done this would have a hard time going across the land in a frozen snowy New Hampshire with sneakers on after just crashing their car. Although I do believe she attempted it, but fell somewhere remote l, maybe down into a little ravine covered with foliage, and succumbed to the elements.

The backpack that was taken from the car has never been discovered either, so I don't think she left it behind (either on purpose or accidentally) she's probably still wearing it or has it near her, wherever she may be. God rest your soul, Maura.

 

[Laughing]

Snows in that part of New York, yup. This is biathlon, but distance exertion with pack (and range firing.)


USMAWP

imho, military training is not interrupted by weather.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Gilderoy Lockhart Jr]

I've been listening to her sister's new podcast. The issue with the local who saw a police SUV next to Maura's car in between the bus driver speaking to Maura about 7:25 or so and the first official LE on scene at about 7:43 or so is the only compelling thing about this sad vanishing. All of the other things people scrutinize endlessly have nothing to do with her disappearance. Nor does "absence" of footprints in the snow mean anything. It may not have been soft snow or they were there some that were overlooked. It's a very rural area in dark, frigid weather. There's a high probability she had been drinking and clearly made bad choices time and again. She had good reason to want to avoid LE. The overwhelming likelihood is that she went into the woods to hide or walked off somewhere and ended up freezing to death. She was never found for obvious reasons: it's difficult to find one person in the vast wilderness and after a while, animals probably ate away at her remains, making it even more unlikely she'd ever be found. I don't want to sound insensitive. Maura didn't deserve anything bad to happen. Her transgressions were minor and she would have grown out of immaturity and found her way. It's horribly sad. But I don't see a real msystery here ala Jason Jolkowski's disappearance.

 

[KayyySmalls23]

I listened to a different (crime Junkies) podcast recently that talked about the new podcast with Maura’s sister Julie. It was my understanding that one of the police officers, I’m thinking it was the chief of police but I could be wrong, was seen in a PD SUV with the number 001 several times (4 times) in the area her car was found. But when they tried to confirm it another officer said he was in that particular vehicle. It was later discovered that this particular officer had given a ticket to a driver and was listed as being in a completely different vehicle. It sounds like the police completely dropped the ball on this investigation from everything I have heard so far. My heart goes out to her family.

I have heard about Crime Junkies but haven't listened...YET. I believe that was one of the points brought up on the ID series. I do recall it being said it was the Chief of Police when they investigated further into the patrol car number that was seen on the vehicle.

I can only imagine how the investigation would have gone if this is indeed true. I mean, Chief of Police in a small town where all his officers probably dote on him daily...I'm sure IF he ever was at the scene; it was conveniently left out of all the reports, interviews with LEO, etc.

 

[Amek]

Also, the accident near campus where she knocked a young guy over, that was another odd incident.

No-one, to this day, knows who knocked over Petrit Vasi. There is absolutely no evidence that MM was involved in this.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

True, but would she have done any winter/snow marching at West Point?
Winter cross-country running in snow and ice?

She could have run along the road for a mile, two miles, five miles before trying to find shelter. Afaik the roads were plowed.

 

[carbuff]

In stormy weather in small towns in the northeast (where I live), the chief is usually out patrolling the roads along with everybody else to make sure the roads are open, nobody has run into a ditch, a tree or a power line isn't down over the road, and on and on. The road she was on is one of the main ones in the area. It would be pretty typical that he would have passed through there several times. Could be trouble but I don't find it inherently worrisome.

 

[annpats]

She could have run along the road for a mile, two miles, five miles before trying to find shelter. Afaik the roads were plowed.

But no footprints were discovered.
Ones that were found, ended in the middle of the road near her car.

 

[OddOneOut]

But no footprints were discovered.
Ones that were found, ended in the middle of the road near her car.

But, according to earlier posts, dogs followed her scent down the road away from her car. I don't think they found any footprints there either.

 

[KindMind1ofA]

But no footprints were discovered.
Ones that were found, ended in the middle of the road near her car.

On the day she went missing, it was very cold and there was snow on the "ground", but I haven't encountered any information that implies it was actively snowing or that there would have been snow on the roadway. Let me know if I've missed it!

As for the dog scent being lost, there was criticism leveled by the father that to condition the dogs they used a glove that Maura would have rarely if ever used. I'm not sure if this is a valid criticism, but his contention is that the scent from this glove wouldn't have been strong enough for the dogs to track Maura.

Given these, my inclination is most likely Maura walked/jogged a sufficient distance from the scene that searches in the vicinity would have been fruitless.

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

Sadly, this is what I think happened as well.

I

This is pretty much my theory as well. We've seen it time and time again. An area of the woods is searched over and over again with people and dogs and nothing is found, then years later a hunter stumbles over the body. It's maddening, but it's not uncommon. I believe one day she'll be found right there in those woods and everyone will be dumbfounded because they'll swear they searched *right there* and she wasn't there.

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

On the day she went missing, it was very cold and there was snow on the "ground", but I haven't encountered any information that implies it was actively snowing or that there would have been snow on the roadway. Let me know if I've missed it!

As for the dog scent being lost, there was criticism leveled by the father that to condition the dogs they used a glove that Maura would have rarely if ever used. I'm not sure if this is a valid criticism, but his contention is that the scent from this glove wouldn't have been strong enough for the dogs to track Maura.

Given these, my inclination is most likely Maura walked/jogged a sufficient distance from the scene that searches in the vicinity would have been fruitless.

It was absolutely freezing that night, the last person to see her alive in 2004 said that she didn't appear intoxicated, she was shivering and cold and a little shaken up. No cell service, Butch invited her to his home to stay warm, and she said no. WEIRD! And she said not to call the police, also weird if she wasn't intoxicated. The snow was up to people's calves, with no footprints. If she had stayed on the road, she would have been found walking by the officers, it was cold and slippery, how do you get that far that quick? How many nice guys have you read about who turn out to be sick individuals? The temperature was approx 26/7 degrees. Fred is reported to have said it was 12 degrees. Who is going to turn down a warm place to hang out where you can call your boyfriend, sister, brother, or best friend?
Butch Atwood's bus was never searched. The are 3 things that bug me, Butch could not get through to 911, but they called him back. Could he have dialed and hung up?
After the call -Why would he go sit in his bus to do paperwork in the freezing cold?
But if Butch had abducted her, wouldn't the dogs be able to locate her on his property.
Does anyone know if Butch drove his bus or a car when he went out searching for her?

 

[KindMind1ofA]

If she had stayed on the road, she would have been found walking by the officers

I'm not so sure.. all signs point to Maura not wanting to be found by the officers and not wanting the help of strangers. As a pedestrian in a remote area at night, it's very easy to hear and see a car coming before they see you. So in Maura's position, if I were walking or jogging along the road and wanted to avoid contact with anyone, I'd step off the road until the car passed by, and then continue my journey.

The search for Maura didn't escalate right away - she could have gotten literally miles from the scene before resting. This is a fit young woman who is a noted athlete. Intoxication, cold and a slippery road are factors, but if separating herself from the accident scene was her goal, then IMO, accomplishing it would have been... trivial.

Why would he go sit in his bus to do paperwork in the freezing cold?

It was cold outside, but I've assumed the bus had been running so was still warm. Purportedly this was Butch's habit, to do the paperwork in the bus. I can imagine lots of reasons why this might be practical but not certain what Butch's rationale was.