Re-examination is also over and she has been discharged from the witness box.wow cross examination is finally over. I was starting to think we would never get there!
Yes, Fleming is a defence witness.Re-examination is also over and she has been discharged from the witness box.
She has called Peter Fleming. He has done a lot of work on cot deaths:
Back to sleep: the doctor who helped stem a cot death epidemic
Sudden infant death syndrome cost thousands of lives in the 70s and 80s - until Peter Fleming’s conversations with bereaved families led to his discovery that babies should sleep on their backswww.theguardian.com
Edit: at least, I assume he's a defence witness. It's possible CM closed her case and the crown called him in rebuttal. Reporting in the Argus isn't great.
Does she even hear herself? She's so entitled it's unbelievable.March 25 '24 rbbm
''She said Gordon told her not to tell police that Victoria died while Marten was holding her in her sleep because police would “blame” her.Constance Marten and partner ‘told each other to lie to police for protection’
Marten, 36, is on trial over the death of her newborn daughter Victoria while on the run from authorities with her partner Mark Gordon, 49.uk.news.yahoo.com
Marten said she told Gordon to tell police he was not there at the time.
Asked if she advised Gordon to lie to the police, she said: “Yes, I’m very protective over my husband because I feel that he gets blamed for everything.”
She added: “I thought they were going to automatically blame him, being a black guy, and I am the good one usually.”
Isn't it the case though, that the prosecution doesn't have to prove motive? We as onlookers would almost certainly like to delve deeper into the truth behind CM's claims just to satisfy our own curiosity, but in terms of proving GNM or causing the death of a child, whether these things were real or a figment of paranoid imaginations is not relevant IMO.I know the jury is something of a lottery, but I do not see how the charges of
manslaughter by gross negligence and perverting the course of justice and concealing the birth of a child and the other charges will be proved. There is no forensic evidence of how baby Victoria died, and little other evidence of how they were living up until the death which we have to assume was 9 January 2023. CM and MG have said how they were hounded by PIs and they suspected the Authorities were supportive of the Marten family and that is why they fled, There has been no evidence to disprove this.
I am of the opinion that their poor decisions caused the death of their baby, but as they deny this and there is no way of disproving their story they have to be found innocent of the charges. That is the way the law works.
If by chance they are found guilty, there will be much mitigation to be taken into consideration and there will almost certainly be an appeal.
I agree with what you say, my point is that, there doesn't seem any way it can not be proved that baby Victoria died by accident. Similar cases have not even gone to court.Isn't it the case though, that the prosecution doesn't have to prove motive? We as onlookers would almost certainly like to delve deeper into the truth behind CM's claims just to satisfy our own curiosity, but in terms of proving GNM or causing the death of a child, whether these things were real or a figment of paranoid imaginations is not relevant IMO.
Edited for layout.
I hear what you say, but equally proving or not proving whether baby Victoria's death was an accident (in terms of overlaying, as CM claims) is also not relevant IMO, because the whole living situation was not comparable to similar cases.I agree with what you say, my point is that, there doesn't seem any way it can not be proved that baby Victoria died by accident. Similar cases have not even gone to court.
<modsnip>I hear what you say, but equally proving or not proving whether baby Victoria's death was an accident (in terms of overlaying, as CM claims) is also not relevant IMO, because the whole living situation was not comparable to similar cases.
If the jury are satisfied that CM & MG's choices led directly to a living situation that endangered baby Victoria because the only way to keep her warm was to constantly expose her to the risk of accidental asphyxiation, then that's GNM, as far as I can see.
I know the jury is something of a lottery, but I do not see how the charges of
manslaughter by gross negligence and perverting the course of justice and concealing the birth of a child and the other charges will be proved. There is no forensic evidence of how baby Victoria died, and little other evidence of how they were living up until the death which we have to assume was 9 January 2023. CM and MG have said how they were hounded by PIs and they suspected the Authorities were supportive of the Marten family and that is why they fled, There has been no evidence to disprove this.
I am of the opinion that their poor decisions caused the death of their baby, but as they deny this and there is no way of disproving their story they have to be found innocent of the charges. That is the way the law works.
If by chance they are found guilty, there will be much mitigation to be taken into consideration and there will almost certainly be an appeal.
From today's link
Dr Peter Fleming, professor of Infant Health and Developmental Physiology at the University of Bristol, will continue giving evidence
But he hasn't been recalled ?
Recap: Trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues
Live updates from the Old Bailey as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues.www.theargus.co.uk
Exactly what I thought. Presumably the people in Mongolia don't live in a festival style tent with a unicorn sleeping bag from Argos...JMO.Ah, I see - so they have sought out Prof Fleming as he has studied babies in Mongolia - hence the reference from CM previously...
Argos 2:47pm
Professor Fleming is now talking about his study into how children are cared for in cold places.
He studied people in Mongolia in the winter, he said.
It's still comparing apples and pears in my opinion - CM and MG have absolutely no cultural experience of raising a child like this! Where did CM&MG boil their water for cooking and washing? Where did they build a fire in their tent, where is the information and the skills of nomadic people passed down through the generations?