Found Deceased France - Émile S., 2, outside grandparent’s house, Le Vernet, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, 8 July 2023

[RickshawFan]

Or, in this instance, they search the likely bit first then… _2 days later…_ stop.

EDIT: I hope you see how this approach in fact creates bad data? Rather than being based on good data.

Actually, I don’t see that at all. The approach used by SAR is proven to rely on fantastic data, and the searches themselves generate even more data. The method has been honed over the years, and is also used by the military. It has saved many lives, and kept SAR out of risky situations.

Also, the approach has netted very few failures when it comes to children in wild areas.

New catalogs of missing persons are added to the databases all the time, always refining the data.

You can try out the new app from the Department of Homeland Security to get an idea of the protocols. Lost Person Behavior App | Homeland Security

Standard search parameter is 72 hours. Outside of that time frame, survival is minimal. The search continues under special circumstances. Keep in mind, SAR is volunteer; these folks have jobs and lives they have to go to.

A special circumstance example was the young woman on the spectrum who went missing on Vancouver Island last year. There was extra challenge in that her decisionmaking might have been very creative (she might have done something most adults wouldn’t choose to do in that situation). That search kept going for a while.

Usually, a child is “special circumstance”.

Families do get unhappy when searches end at 72 hours—and SAR doesn’t like it much, either—but searches aren’t risk-free, either. SAR is often out in dangerous situations. Managers have to weigh risk and reward. E.g. the Matrosova case sent SAR into extreme danger. The odds of getting blasted off a mountain were extremely high, as was the likelihood of perishing from cold.

Matrosova story: Where You’ll Find Me

 

[RickshawFan]

MSN

View attachment 494369
View attachment 494371
View attachment 494370

Wow, great maps. Thanks, @dotr.

 

[quarry72]

Press conference right now, a t-shirt and shoes have been found next to a water stream about 150 meters from the skull. Indications of small fractures post mortem. Presence of bites on the skull probably from animals.

DIRECT. Mort d’Émile : un t-shirt, des chaussures et une culotte découverts près d'un ruisseau

 

[quarry72]

Press conference right now, a t-shirt and shoes have been found next to a water stream about 150 meters from the skull. Indications of small fractures post mortem. Presence of bites on the skull probably from animals.

DIRECT. Mort d’Émile : un t-shirt, des chaussures et une culotte découverts près d'un ruisseau

A pants have also been found.

The hiker who found the remains have been cleared.
Tonight they still don't know whether it's an accident or not the search continues...

 

[musicaljoke]

150 meters from the site of the skull's discovery, Emile's effects were discovered during further research: a t-shirt, shoes and panties were found near a stream. No other bones have been found at this time.
The bones were discovered on March 30, 2024 between 12 p.m. and 2 p.m. on a path that the walker remembered having taken a month before. She grabbed the skull, put it in a plastic bag and returned home before calling the police. She was able to precisely indicate its location to investigators: the skull was placed on the ground. “In summer it is a very vegetated area.” This place can be reached on foot from the bottom of the village in around 25 minutes. The path does not present any major difficulty

DIRECT. Mort d’Émile : un t-shirt, des chaussures et une culotte découverts près d'un ruisseau

Trois jours après la découverte d’ossements appartenant au petit Émile, 2 ans, disparu au Haut-Vernet (Alpes-de-Haute-Provence), de nombreux experts sont encore sur place ce mardi 2 avril pour tenter de découvrir les causes du décès du petit garçon. Suivez en direct avec nous les évolutions de...

www.ouest-france.fr

google translator

 

[Lilly b]

150 meters from the site of the skull's discovery, Emile's effects were discovered during further research: a t-shirt, shoes and panties were found near a stream. No other bones have been found at this time.
The bones were discovered on March 30, 2024 between 12 p.m. and 2 p.m. on a path that the walker remembered having taken a month before. She grabbed the skull, put it in a plastic bag and returned home before calling the police. She was able to precisely indicate its location to investigators: the skull was placed on the ground. “In summer it is a very vegetated area.” This place can be reached on foot from the bottom of the village in around 25 minutes. The path does not present any major difficulty

DIRECT. Mort d’Émile : un t-shirt, des chaussures et une culotte découverts près d'un ruisseau

Trois jours après la découverte d’ossements appartenant au petit Émile, 2 ans, disparu au Haut-Vernet (Alpes-de-Haute-Provence), de nombreux experts sont encore sur place ce mardi 2 avril pour tenter de découvrir les causes du décès du petit garçon. Suivez en direct avec nous les évolutions de...

www.ouest-france.fr

google translator

It's awful, poor boy. I do find it odd that no other bones found, when his clothes have been, but then they will be able to take soil samples etc etc from clothing, and test for other dna

 

[musicaljoke]

It's awful, poor boy. I do find it odd that no other bones found, when his clothes have been, but then they will be able to take soil samples etc etc from clothing, and test for other dna

He was just a little guy. Animals would carry his bones away. But I hope they find the rest of his remains for the sake of all who loved him.

 

[dotr]

Emile: Hundreds of police deployed to remote French Alps hamlet days after remains of two-year-old boy found

French investigators are trying to work out when and how the boy died days after his bones, including a skull, were found in a forested mountain area months after he was last seen.

news.sky.com

rbbm
''François Daoust, former director of the forensic science department of the French National Gendarmerie, told French media: "The zero point is missing, where there are the maximum number of bones, the place where the child fell or was placed."

''The drones will "very finely map the entire scene by taking photos and then reconstruct it in 3D and 2D", Lieutenant Aurélien S., the head of the National Gendamerie's forensic department, said.
This means investigators will always have access to a recreation of the scene when the remains were first found - allowing them to detect any change in the terrain since then''.

 

[dotr]

Apr 1, 2024 #World
Remains of Emile who went missing from the small French alpine village of Le Vernet last July were found over the weekend.

 

[Megsc]

A pants have also been found.

The hiker who found the remains have been cleared.
Tonight they still don't know whether it's an accident or not the search continues...

Also from this article : Mort d’Émile : chute, homicide involontaire ou meurtre, "aucune hypothèse n'est privilégiée", affirme le procureur d’Aix-en-Provence

"A jawbone is missing, although it is not known whether its absence was caused by the force of traction."

"The bones were not buried but exposed for a long time to weather variations and bad weather. Analyzes are continuing."

"These bones alone do not allow us to say what is the cause of Emile's death. Under the authority of the investigating judges, the investigation will continue with the same intensity. The excavations have not been completed and are due to continue tomorrow, Wednesday April 3. The elements found have not finished being analyzed."

"The prosecutor does not exclude the possibility that the little boy made the journey on foot between his grandparents' home and the place where he was found. “I don’t know his walking abilities,” he said, before continuing, “anything is possible.”"

 

[Dotta]

"Asked if the area where Émile's remains had been searched previously,
Mr Blachon said
'yes, but not using drones or specialised dogs.'

He added:
'At this time, we cannot say whether Emile's body was already in the searched area.
I cannot say that every square meter was searched'.

'The topography there is difficult with steep slopes making observation and excavation difficult'.

'It was also very hot in July 2023,
with temperatures of more than 30°C in the shade,
which could have affected the effectiveness of the tracking dogs and infrared cameras'."

Émile Soleil's bones have NOT provided new clues as to how he died

The toddler was confirmed dead after his skull and bones were on Saturday found in isolated countryside close to the isolated family home from where he went missing in July last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

The Alpine hamlet of Le Haut-Vernet in France pictured on Sunday, after French investigators found the remains of the toddler who went missing last summerg



The entrance of the French southern Alps village of Le Vernet, near where Émile went missing

Émile Soleil's bones have NOT provided new clues as to how he died

The toddler was confirmed dead after his skull and bones were on Saturday found in isolated countryside close to the isolated family home from where he went missing in July last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[kittythehare]

Investigators will try to find out whether "these bones could have been moved by a human, an animal, or the weather conditions," gendarmerie spokeswoman Marie-Laure Pezant said yesterday.

But he revealed that some of the boy's clothes had been found close to where the skull had been discovered by the walker - a T-shirt, the boy's shoes and his shorts - and these would be examined.

"No injury ante mortem (before death) was observed on the skull," he added, saying there were marks that could have been caused after death by animals who are present in the area.

Death of toddler unexplained despite skull discovery

French police have conducted new searches for the remains of a boy whose skull was found at the weekend, nine months after he went missing in a remote Alpine village, in a mystery that remains unresolved.

www.rte.ie

 

[Officer Dibble]

Yes, sometimes toddlers (and others!) go further than imagined. SAR has a protocol where they search the statistically most likely radius first. Then they expand. This isn't so much "tragedy could have been avoided", as searching the most likely area first and thoroughly. Makes little sense to search areas with low statistical likelihood of a find, until the "highly likelies" are finished.

France has excellent SAR. The SAR protocols are international, and science-driven. We encountered French SAR in the Dingley case.

FWIW toddlers don't have the concept of "lost", perhaps because the whole world is new to them. They only have the concept of "mom's not here, where is mom? I have to find mom". Substitute whoever for "mom".

It's very common for folks missing in the wilderness never to be found. I will say, though, SAR seems to have a stellar record at finding toddlers. We seem rarely to have a case of "found deceased" in the woods when a child has wandered off.

BBM: Just to say when I was a toddler I woke up in a strange place (a hospital, but I didn't know what a hospital was) in a strange cot. I've always recalled this clearly - my thoughts were: "my Mum, Dad, Sister, Brother don't know where I am". I was scared of the lady wearing a funny hat and funny clothes (nurse). I couldn't stop looking out of the window and remember feeling relief when I saw them walking down a narrow path in a row - I remembering thinking "they do know where I am." I hadn't remembered that I'd been taken unwell in the night.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I thought everyone knew not to pick up a skull or bones but to leave it where you found it and call the Police?

 

[Lonicera]

Eviter « des conclusions hâtives »​

Si les analyses témoignent que les os n’ont pas été enfouis et ont été exposés aux intempéries, elles ne permettent pas encore de dire quelle est la cause de la mort d’Emile Soleil. « Entre la chute de l’enfant, l’homicide involontaire et le meurtre, on ne peut toujours pas privilégier une hypothèse plus qu’une autre. Ce n’est satisfaisant pour personne, ni pour la famille, ni pour les enquêteurs ou les juges d’instruction. Mais nos impatiences respectives ne sauraient nous imposer des conclusions hâtives », a conclu le magistrat, comme pour prévenir tout risque d’emballement médiatique. article du Monde .
Sorry c'est en français mais on peut traduire via google

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Si les analyses témoignent que les os n’ont pas été enfouis et ont été exposés aux intempéries, elles ne permettent pas encore de dire quelle est la cause de la mort d’Emile Soleil. « Entre la chute de l’enfant, l’homicide involontaire et le meurtre, on ne peut toujours pas privilégier une hypothèse plus qu’une autre. Ce n’est satisfaisant pour personne, ni pour la famille, ni pour les enquêteurs ou les juges d’instruction. Mais nos impatiences respectives ne sauraient nous imposer des conclusions hâtives », a conclu le magistrat, comme pour prévenir tout risque d’emballement médiatique. article du Monde .
Sorry c'est en français mais on peut traduire via google

As translated by google

If the analyzes show that the bones were not buried and were exposed to bad weather, they do not yet make it possible to say what was the cause of Emile Soleil's death. “Between the child’s fall, manslaughter and murder, we still cannot favor one hypothesis over another. This is not satisfactory for anyone, neither for the family, nor for the investigators or the investigating judges. But our respective impatience cannot force us to hasty conclusions,” concluded the magistrate, as if to prevent any risk of media excitement. article from Le Monde.

 

[Megsc]

I thought everyone knew not to pick up a skull or bones but to leave it where you found it and call the Police?

Well it seems she didn't have any network, so she took the skull, put it in a plastic bag, carried it out to her home then called the police. I wouldn't have touched it either since I know it's the last thing to do, but I guess she was scared it wouldn't be here anymore when she would come back with LE? (Animals could have taken it I guess?)
After thinking about it that's what would make the more sense to me.
Also she was cleared by LE

 

[Lonicera]

How is it that 2 brigades of specialized dogs did not smell anything beyond the washhouse (lavoir)?
For me, this is a malicious act.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Many true crime followers and followers of fictional crimes would likely know about not taking or moving anything at a crime scene or where remains are found.

But I'm sure there are also many who would have no idea that taking a skull or other remains to LE or police is something they shouldn't do.