OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

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I am still shaking my head here after reading the AA. Seriously, did they really THINK they were going to get away with this? I am a grandmother helping to raise my youngest two grandsons, but I can't imagine taking their mother or father out of the picture would be best for them. Those children have been exposed to gawd only knows what, and now their mother is completely gone because the grandmother thought it was best?! I guess I just can't wrap my head around how stupid some folks can be.
 
NWay said:
Actually I thought that if the 'preferred" supervisor was not available that TA was to advise VB and then VB was to arrange and pay for one of the remaining 3 supervisors on the list. There were various notification timeframes in the document to provide for advance notice and planning etc.

It was imo an odd arrangement as usually I've seen the cost associated with supervisors be split between the parties. Here iirc TA was responsible for paying the 'preferred' supervisor and VB was responsible for paying in the event that the other 3 supervisors might be used.

MOO
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True, but TA’s preferred supervisor was available. TA told her to take a few weeks off. So, poor Jillian agreed to go.
 
Tabulator said:
View attachment 497585
After going through the affidavits, I just can't fathom how any of these people thought they could get away with this horrible crime.
I mean they actually believed that throwing an anvil would work. Even Wile E. Coyote knows better - even if he orders it from ACME!
I hope it's clear that I am not and would never try to make a joke about this vile, disgusting crime - I am, however, saying these people were sincerely deluded if they believed they wouldn't get caught!
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That anvil idea is just crazy, as are these murderers.
 
ClearAhead said:
Could be. Total speculation but perhaps the 5th was expected to drive and ditch the vehicle somewhere further away? TA had already set the stage by claiming VB cancelled her plan to pick up her children that day. So then TA might’ve plotted another location where it appeared VB had driven to, a place to be blamed for her disappearance when the vehicle was later discovered abandoned - - if not simply hidden in a barn or quonset. Not that TA’s plots had any substance beyond the wicked thoughts of an evil woman. JMO
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They did have a flatbed truck that was used to load the 'slid steer', so it's quite possible that they planned to load the car onto that truck and haul it away.
 
browneyes said:
True, but TA’s preferred supervisor was available. TA told her to take a few weeks off. So, poor Jillian agreed to go.
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It's wild to me how much control TA had over all of the custody and visitation arrangements, especially since she was not one of the bio parents of the kids, and neither parent has had their parental rights terminated. I know it speaks to TA's need to control people, situations, children, etc., but I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been in Veronica's shoes, to feel completely at the "mercy" of TA's decisions when it came to the 1 day a week she had with her children. From what we've seen/read/heard thus far, TA had first pick over who the preferred supervisor would be for each day, if her kids were available or not for visits, and I have a feeling (IMHO) TA also attempted to control the kids' thoughts/opinions when it came to any family outside of her (TA's) home.
 
gitana1 said:
My suspicion as well.
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I agree completely with this. She wanted to use that taser on VB to inflict pain, suffering, and humiliation. She actually bought 5 of them, potentially so they all could participate in the torture. I think there was probably worse done, sadly.

I pray the two women were actually killed quickly when the abduction plans went awry and were not conscious for long, depriving TA from her most fervent line of satisfaction.

I do hope there is a way to find out how far these plans went in their God's Miserables Group meetings.

This might be part of the reason why all 4 have the same charges and the possibility of Death Penalty is on the table for each of them. Premeditation, kidnapping, torture, murder.
 
otto said:
There's a correction we need to make regarding the discovery of the car.

I don't know who said that the car was discovered at 10:30 AM, but that seems to be false. The car was found by Veronica's family at 12:09 PM when she failed to arrive for the birthday party. Her family contacted police.

View attachment 497379

www.newschannel10.com

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.
www.newschannel10.com www.newschannel10.com
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This just occurred to me: the document says a pistol magazine was found inside Kelley's purse, but no pistol. This could easily have been a spare magazine. My husband has his carry permit and is normally carrying. He doesn't carry a spare on him, but I know people who do.
 
otto said:
They did have a flatbed truck that was used to load the 'slid steer', so it's quite possible that they planned to load the car onto that truck and haul it away.
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Yes- and according to the arrest affadavit, CW (dtr of CoraT) reported that her mom and step-dad took a "blue and gray Chevrolet pickup owned by them and a blue flatbed pickup... when they left and returned in the same vehicles." (Cole Twombly AA).

I had the same thought- Cora and Cole T took both vehicles with the intent of using the flatbed to load the car onto the truck and haul it away. Additionally, the two trucks would be useful to fully block the roadway, and cause VB and JK to have to divert their route off of the intended route.
 
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browneyes said:
Well, we know the anvil attempt that was planned, but didn’t work. Cora’s daughter told LE that.
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What gets me is they attempted this in February - but evidently, no one came to their senses and had second thoughts about participating in a murder. Between the first attempt in February and the actual murder, no one reflected on what it was they were actually attempting? No one thought, "Hey! Wait a minute! I don't know what got into me, but I'm OUT now. Thank God we weren't successful!"
It's like the first failed attempt just emboldened everyone to try again.
It's all so strange.
 
otto said:
They did have a flatbed truck that was used to load the 'slid steer', so it's quite possible that they planned to load the car onto that truck and haul it away.
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It's a skid steer. Popular light equipment for farms and large properties

An example:


Different than a front loader because it's arms are in the back, it is lighter, and does not have the more complicated mechanics and engine for the front arms. It also weighs substantially less than a front loader. Front loaders can be in the $40K range while skip loaders are mostly under $10K.
 
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Seattle1 said:
From the AA, we know Cora's daughter saw two burner phones charging on Cora's nightstand. We also know Cora and Cole were driving separate vehicles (pickup and flatbed) on the day of the murders, and probably needed two burner phones to communicate with each other.

Although TA was found to have purchased the three burner phones, I doubt Tifany wanted the burners linked to her, period!

Also from the AA, one burner phone number seemed to be following TC and no mention of TA (or the third person) in the same area.

Seems to me, the burners were pretty much accounted for by LE. JMO
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Yesterday another had asked about the flatbed and might it tilt. Some do. Those are often called a ‘roll-back’ over here on the east coast. Usually used to retrieve stalled or abandoned cars. Hydraulic operated tilt bed and roll-back or slide usually. (Those differ from a fixed-bed flatbed type truck. Not sure which this one was, or if any pictures have surfaced.)

I am wondering if this one did also tilt? And if so it might have been planned to use it to move VB car if needed, as well as the skid steer or grader used at the dam site? MOO
 
kccorona said:
Yes- and according to the arrest affadavit, CW (dtr of CoraT) reported that her mom and step mom took a "blue and gray Chevrolet pickup owned by them and a blue flatbed pickup... when they left and returned in the same vehicles." (Cole Twombly AA).

I had the same thought that they took both vehicles with the intent of using the flatbed to load the car onto the truck and haul it away. Along with the use of two trucks to fully block the way and cause VB and JK to have to divert their route off of the highway.
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It's clever of TA to use the Twombley's vehicles instead of hers or TC's. She was going to put them in the most compromising position, rather than herself or TC.
 
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