Flies and Maggots in the trunk - forensic entomology #1

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Recovering-Lurker said:
I really, really hope so. There was a rumor on another board that someone talked to the Oak Ridge National Lab, and they said they did have maggots from the car. I don't think they would tell some random person that, but you never know. I pray it's true!
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Me too. I read the same thing and and I'm hoping it's true as well! :D
 
I am not an expert by any means on the Florida Sunshine Law, but I believe LE can and does have a fair amount of information on hand that does not (yet) need to be released under this law. If the information has not been requested by KC's attorney as part of discovery, and if it has not already been used in a court hearing or in front of the Grand Jury, then I think they do not need to release it.

So step back and think like the prosecutor. What is the minimum amount of information you would need to take to an experienced Grand Jury in order to hand down an indictment? Hold everything else back to seal a conviction in court. They could and quite possibly do have a lot more forensic evidence they can use to build a circumstantial case against KC. In the Grand Jury they chose to focus on the odor and the hair with the death band.
 
After watching Nancy Grace last night I ended up wondering "how can they afford two guys like Dr Lee and Dr. Baden." and how can these two, "professional" men sit there and try spin the facts. How trust worthy can they be!

My kids left stuff in their trunks when they were teenagers and some of it was rotten, but never saw a maggot and certainly never had "that" smell.

Just my opinion.
 
JWG said:
It think OCSO will need to look at the "garbage" that was left in the car and trunk - especially food containers with or without food. Then they will need to get another white Pontiac and put similar containers in it, and keep it outside in the sun for 31 days (or actually, enough days to match June / July accumulated degree days). After that time has elapsed they will need to take an air sample and have the body farm analyze it. If they do not then Dr. Lee will use his "findings" to cast doubt with a jury.

That aside, one would think if food containers were indeed the source of the smell that KC would have discarded them when the smell started. She did not, indicating she knew the source of the smell.
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Yes !! Last eve on NG, Lee made it sound like she had the whole kitchen sink in her trunk....cheese, meat, food boxes, etc....sounds like my car when I was that age, except it NEVER stank...maybe smelled like a fast food restaurant (LOL), but NEVER "bad" or "rotten" like CA said.

And, I can almost be positive LE tested that bag and any maggots for Caylee's DNA. Probably also for Casey's - or anyone elses - fingerprints on the bag.

What REALLY bugs me, is KC talking about the smell so early on....way before Caylee was deceased. How could she have known there would be such a stench in her car at a later date ?? I mean, we all know pretty much that she planned out the whole thing, how did she know Caylee's body would decompose in her trunk and cause that smell ??
 
sabego said:
After watching Nancy Grace last night I ended up wondering "how can they afford two guys like Dr Lee and Dr. Baden." and how can these two, "professional" men sit there and try spin the facts. How trust worthy can they be!

My kids left stuff in their trunks when they were teenagers and some of it was rotten, but never saw a maggot and certainly never had "that" smell.

Just my opinion.
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Wow, I didn't know they had Baden, too !! Wow, Lee...Koby...Baden....A LOT of heavy hitters to try to explain away the evidence for an innocent "Mother of the Year"....LOL
 
Please excuse me, I meant Koby not Baden who are on the payroll. Don't know about Baden yet. Sorry.
 
sabego said:
Please excuse me, I meant Koby not Baden who are on the payroll. Don't know about Baden yet. Sorry.
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Oh, phewww - hope I spelled that right....LOL (It's the sigh of relief sound)

Not that she doesn't need all those guys...just was also wondering to myself if Baden was gonna be for the prosecution.
 
MyTinkieGirl said:
What REALLY bugs me, is KC talking about the smell so early on....way before Caylee was deceased. How could she have known there would be such a stench in her car at a later date ?? I mean, we all know pretty much that she planned out the whole thing, how did she know Caylee's body would decompose in her trunk and cause that smell ??
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IIRC, KC first started talking about the smell around June 25...and Caylee was pretty obviously dead by around June 16.
 
AZlawyer said:
IIRC, KC first started talking about the smell around June 25...and Caylee was pretty obviously dead by around June 16.
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Ohhhhh, duh, I kept thinking NG and I think Amy or Lee said the
5th....OK....makes A LOT more sense now.....thanks !!!
 
AZlawyer said:
IIRC, KC first started talking about the smell around June 25...and Caylee was pretty obviously dead by around June 16.
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OK...I'm not nuts....LOL Now, THAT's a good thing (as Martha Stewart would say)....LOL

In the transcripts from last eve show.....

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lee Anthony says Casey claimed she first noticed the smell on June 5.

Now, WHEN he supposedly stated that....before or AFTER drinking the Kool-Aid....I don't know. I need to go back to the LE transcripts.....ohhhhhh nooooo.....LOL OR, people are just not hearing the right date, like I did. I KNOW what you said makes so much more sense, that I'm thinking people are just not hearing that date correctly....or, again, Lee just being "Lee".
 
MyTinkieGirl said:
OK...I'm not nuts....LOL Now, THAT's a good thing (as Martha Stewart would say)....LOL

In the transcripts from last eve show.....

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lee Anthony says Casey claimed she first noticed the smell on June 5.

Now, WHEN he supposedly stated that....before or AFTER drinking the Kool-Aid....I don't know. I need to go back to the LE transcripts.....ohhhhhh nooooo.....LOL OR, people are just not hearing the right date, like I did. I KNOW what you said makes so much more sense, that I'm thinking people are just not hearing that date correctly....or, again, Lee just being "Lee".
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It is a transcriptionist error. It happens all the time. Look at all of the interview transcripts that have been released. There are typos all through them.
 
JWG said:
It think OCSO will need to look at the "garbage" that was left in the car and trunk - especially food containers with or without food. Then they will need to get another white Pontiac and put similar containers in it, and keep it outside in the sun for 31 days (or actually, enough days to match June / July accumulated degree days). After that time has elapsed they will need to take an air sample and have the body farm analyze it. If they do not then Dr. Lee will use his "findings" to cast doubt with a jury.

That aside, one would think if food containers were indeed the source of the smell that KC would have discarded them when the smell started. She did not, indicating she knew the source of the smell.
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The difference, I believe, is a question of raw, vs cooked meat. If there had been some thawed uncooked chicken going bad, it would stink WAY beyond chicken nuggets eg. But even this I can't believe could ever be confused w human decomp--which if not GA surely reknowned Dr. Henry Lee as well as UofT Body Farm could easily distinguish! JMO
 
kiki the parrot said:
The difference, I believe, is a question of raw, vs cooked meat. If there had been some thawed uncooked chicken going bad, it would stink WAY beyond chicken nuggets eg. But even this I can't believe could ever be confused w human decomp (which GA and surely the reknowned DR. HENRY LEE as well as UofT BODY FARM, could distinguish!! JMO
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Two of the chemicals of importance can be found in cooked chicken and cooked beef which I found to be interesting....They are dimethyl trisulfide and dimethyl disulfide.:waitasec:
 
kiki the parrot said:
The difference, I believe, is a question of raw, vs cooked meat. If there had been some thawed uncooked chicken going bad, it would stink WAY beyond chicken nuggets eg. But even this I can't believe could ever be confused w human decomp--which if not GA surely reknowned Dr. Henry Lee as well as UofT Body Farm could easily distinguish! JMO
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I made this comment on another thread(don't know if it belongs here either):

We had a smoked turkey given to us for a gift and I put it in the frig downstairs. A couple days later I could smell an awful smell to the point I wanted to throw up. It was horrid. I couldn't figure out where it was coming from because it smelled through the entire house. Finally I went downstairs to the utility room where the frig was and just about fell over. Apparently when I turned and closed the door I had not closed it all the way and the turkey had spoiled. I cleaned the frig the best I knew how. I used every kind of cleaner, put charcoal in it and shut the door(left it in there for a week) and anything else I could get my hands on. We then put it outside of the garage for 3 months. I finally got brave enough to go near it and it still smelled. My neighbor said he would take it off of my hands. Two weeks later I saw him taking it to the trash.
One more thing...it was the dead of winter and I live in South Dakota so if you know our weather, it's COLD!!!!!
 
AutomaticAuttie said:
Two of the chemicals of importance can be found in cooked chicken and cooked beef which I found to be interesting....They are dimethyl trisulfide and dimethyl disulfide.:waitasec:
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True...DMTS and DMDS are really not so bad smelling, actually....most of those chemicals aren't particularly gross to me....but, I'm a Flavor Chemist, and have dealt with them (and far more worse smells than those) on a regular basis to develop flavors for food. You'd be surprised what some of the "things" that are blended together (to make a finished flavor) smell like individually....LOL

These naturally occuring chemicals in the foods as you mentioned are waaaay beyond miniscule, and contribute little to the actual "flavor" or "smell" of those foods. Coffee has over 500 individual naturally occuring chemical components, BUT, only 10 - 20 blended in the proper combinations gives you the "actual" flavor/smell.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not the actual "component" per se, but the COMBINATION of the components as a "whole" which would identify a particular odor/flavor.


Aaaand....I'll shut up now !! LOL
 
JWG said:
It is a transcriptionist error. It happens all the time. Look at all of the interview transcripts that have been released. There are typos all through them.
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Thank God....that was driving me CRAZY !!!
 
kiki the parrot said:
The difference, I believe, is a question of raw, vs cooked meat. If there had been some thawed uncooked chicken going bad, it would stink WAY beyond chicken nuggets eg. But even this I can't believe could ever be confused w human decomp--which if not GA surely reknowned Dr. Henry Lee as well as UofT Body Farm could easily distinguish! JMO
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Exactly !!! IIRC, maggots would be found from RAW meats as opposed to cooked food, right ??
 
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