Ping Map and Timeline for June 16, 2008 - Discuss that day only.

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes she did, Intermezzo - exactly as you indicated.

OT, but, I had to chuckle when she wrote that she dropped Caylee @ 1PM, went to work @ Universal, then came back @ 5PM. Travel time one-way per Google=22mins. So...5PM - 1PM = 4hrs - 44mins = 3hrs 16mins. Whew! But, then, Casey did tell George she'd prolly be working late too...so...:waitasec:...her 'normal' workday was << 3hrs 16mins, eh?

OK...back on-topic...sorta...

IIRC, the m.o. was gotta-drop-Caylee-off-w/-Cindy to work later/work an event and ZFG can't watch Caylee...so...Casey must've just been modest about her doing this on her late lunch break before an event, eh?

IMHO, I don't think we have any huge gaping holes re: discovery on the 16th. Per the 6/9 vs. 6/16 thread I think George gave an account of 6/9...although it was very, very similar to the events of 6/16 from his perspective... as far as I can tell....so...not casting blame on George for the discrepancy.

Why not? He's as much a part of factors to be considered as anybody else in that family. WTH?

 

[Intermezzo]

Why not? He's as much a part of factors to be considered as anybody else in that family. WTH?

Agreed.
I am not able to give George a pass on this.
IMO he is holding back information about the events of June 15 and of June 16.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Why not? He's as much a part of factors to be considered as anybody else in that family. WTH?

...well...I did say, "as far as I can tell"....:whistle:

However, as I just posted on the 6/9 vs. 6/16 thread, with the home phone & G&C's cell records, there's now enough information to at least suggest 6/16 wasn't as much like 6/9 as I previously thought.

Prolly easier just to bring that post over here. It belongs on this thread as much as it does there anyway.

OK...after reviewing phone records I hafta toss out there that 6/16 may not have been as much like 6/9 to George as I had previously thought.

Now know that one minute before George called Casey on her cell @ 3:04PM 6/16 that George called the house (G&C's @ Hopespring). The call to the house was only 17seconds in duration, which happens to match the duration of a call Casey placed to the house later that evening. This suggests to me that it takes 17seconds to listen to the answering machine message @ G&C's (before the tone) to see if anyone is going to pick-up the phone.

Sooooo....the only reason I can think George would call the house (Cindy not off until 5'ish) was if George knew Casey was THERE. Owing to his immediate follow-up call to Casey's cell @ 3:04PM makes the case stronger IMHO.

OK...first...that's a big departure for me. I'd been thinking Casey left G&C's and came back owing to the timing of George's story...even if it was the same as 6/9 I figured Casey woulda been sellin' the same BS 'bout going to work. :bang:

Next. No calls between George & Cindy 6/16. So...George wasn't trying to play peacemaker 'tween the two. Nor was he delivering/relaying any message from Cindy.

Kicker. Cindy appears to have had her cell off (or dead battery) almost the entire day 6/16. Cindy placed one call on 6/16...and that was to Casey. In fact, it was THE call from Cindy's cell that resulted in a vmail waiting message on Casey's phone 5:57PM. Since no incoming call was recorded on Casey's cell phone she may have had it off...or as suggested by others...been in an area affecting her reception.

We're all familiar w/ the George's account of 6/16 via Greta. And we have his earliest handwritten statement when he was going w/ the 6/9 date. IIRC, it was in the FBI interviews when George was getting choked up and said "the last time I heard her voice" was....still telling 6/16 story.

Put me down even more solid as George tellin' us 'bout the events of 6/9 instead of 6/16. Intentional or not...I dunno. I still wanna know what his call to Casey was about @ 3:04PM 6/16....or at least what he's told LE it was about...'cause you know they've spotted this by now and asked George why he called the house...:waitasec:

Grand jury testimony was well after the FBI interviews, etc. Perhaps George had to testify to the GJ that Casey was @ Hopespring between 9-1PM on 6/16...and perhaps still there w/ Caylee when he left for work that day ~2:30PM. :waitasec:

 

[crete110]

In her LE testimony CA states that she normally gets off work around 5- 5:30 on days when she goes in early and between 5:30-6 pm on days that she goes in later. GA states that in his new security job, he works Sunday - Thursday from 3pm-11pm. I'm not sure when he allegedly started that new job...Does anyone know?

I'm reading through to see if it's been answered yet so if anyone can point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it but...

With the ping maps being cross referenced with txt msgs and phone calls, has anyone been able to determine what KC was actually doing or where she was while she claimed to be at work?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

BJB,

Recapping in order to aid my understanding - are you suggesting that GA's original statement referred to what he thought he remembered from 6/16 but that he was actually recounting 6/9? (or he was not there 6/16). If so wouldn't the date be wrong but not the recount? In other words, your not saying he purposely told 6/9 rather than 6/16? He would know he was retelling the last time he saw KC leave with Caylee regardless of the date. We only know it was 6/16 because the Mt. Dora pic. surfaced. Maybe HE was telling 6/9? Is that possible?

Heck, do we even know if GA had been around his house since 6/9?
Since at the beginning of the case, everyone assumed the A's were telling the truth because noone had any idea what big webweavers they are.

LE's questioning the family was regarding the last time GA or CA saw both Caylee and KC regardless of the date, so are you suggesting that GA was called back to confirm the date mixup and to retell the same story adding that it had actually taken place on June 16? Like for accuracy - word??? - confirm he was home on June 16?

Choices - GA told what he remembered from the actual date of 6/9 since he had not been at his house since then.

GA told the events that happened 6/16 but said they occurred 6/9 (going along with the wrong date stated by CA)

GA told 6/9 events forgetting a whole week had gone by between that date and Caylee being gone.:waitasec:

GA told 6/16 happenings but said it happened 6/9 to fit the agreed upon date alteration.

AM I on the WRONG thread again?

 

[BondJamesBond]

AM I on the WRONG thread again?

*snipped*

Well...you can blame it on me Woe. I brought the post over here to expand on it a little. It seemed to fit w/ the pings for 6/16.

...however, agree that the best place to discuss George's tale is actually on the 6/9 vs. 6/16 thread.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Bond, from which angle - please? Get me out of this maze!!!:crazy:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond, from which angle - please? Get me out of this maze!!!:crazy:

...sure Woe..."walk this way"...George's tale of last seeing Caylee here.

 

[JWG]

Posted the following on the Cindy / KC fight thread, but because it has to do with events on the 16th, it is worth posting here as well. We have discussed this previously on this thread, but there is a little more insight into the call pattern.



IMHO, the 7:45 AM call is KC looking for her phone. Here is the call in context:

6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM OUTGOING CALL Casey A. Casey Voicemail
6/16/08 MON 7:45:51 AM INCOMING CALL Anthony Home Casey A.

I used to believe that she found the phone and immediately picked it up to call VM to see what messages she had. However, this pattern of two calls occurs frequently in the record:

• A first call from KC to voicemail
• A second call from some number to KC (usually from Cindy or the Anthony home)
• The first and second calls share the same time stamp and are the same duration
• No cell tower information is associated with either call

What this two-call pattern indicates is that KC's phone got a call from the second number that went to voicemail.

Almost always a third call follows about a minute later - a text message saying there is voicemail waiting.

The call the morning of the 16th has a duration of 1 second, so no substantive message was left, if any. No text message from voicemail is sent. Either KC found her phone as her call was going to VM, or perhaps she did not find the phone and simply ended the call as it went to VM. I am guessing the latter is what happened, because she does not use the phone for another hour.

IMHO...if Cindy was calling KC she would have left a message. This is her standard operating procedure when calling KC.

Discussion on the theories thread caused something to occur to me that should be posted here. In the earlier post above I theorized that it could not be CA calling because she would have left a VM. Thus, it had to be KC calling, looking for her phone.

However, the next use of the phone is a call to AL about an hour later. If she was looking for the phone at 7:45, why didn't she do something with it soon after? :waitasec:

I am now inclined to believe it was CA who called, but for the purpose of seeing if KC was up without risking going in and waking Caylee. The phone was probably set to vibrate, so that would have been less likely to wake Caylee than opening the door would.

 

[Chezhire]

Discussion on the theories thread caused something to occur to me that should be posted here. In the earlier post above I theorized that it could not be CA calling because she would have left a VM. Thus, it had to be KC calling, looking for her phone.

However, the next use of the phone is a call to AL about an hour later. If she was looking for the phone at 7:45, why didn't she do something with it soon after? :waitasec:

I am now inclined to believe it was CA who called, but for the purpose of seeing if KC was up without risking going in and waking Caylee. The phone was probably set to vibrate, so that would have been less likely to wake Caylee than opening the door would.

Follow-up questions:

(1) If it was Cindy, do you feel the girls were at the Anthony home or somewhere else? Do you think Cindy thought that the girls were in Casey's bedroom or somewhere else?

(2) If it was Casey, maybe she just wanted to see if she had any missed calls or texts?

 

[Chezhire]

Another follow-up: If it was Cindy calling Casey & she wanted to tell Casey something or to ask Casey something or to make sure Casey was ok after the fight the previous evening, wouldn't Cindy have left Casey a message? We know no message was left by the caller calling Casey as no text message was sent to her cell after the two simultaneous calls at 7:45:51 a.m....

Playing the devil's advocate, I don't always leave my family members voice messages - they see I've called & know to call me to find out what it is I need or called them about (I rarely leave messages on voice mail.)

Thoughts?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

What if Caylee had been out of the room with CA while CA was in the kitchen prior to leaving for work. We've wondered before why the A's never went into detail regarding who had given Caylee breakfast, etc.

Could it be that CA called KC to say she was leaving so KC should wake up and get up? Maybe KC did not wake up leaving Caylee unattended for a time.

I have always felt GA has known more about what happened to Caylee from the get go. Could they, KC and GA, be in the coverup of what happened to Caylee from day one? He always seems so pained, so on the verge of something.????

 

[nyvictoria]

Another follow-up: If it was Cindy calling Casey & she wanted to tell Casey something or to ask Casey something or to make sure Casey was ok after the fight the previous evening, wouldn't Cindy have left Casey a message? We know no message was left by the caller calling Casey as no text message was sent to her cell after the two simultaneous calls at 7:45:51 a.m....

Playing the devil's advocate, I don't always leave my family members voice messages - they see I've called & know to call me to find out what it is I need or called them about (I rarely leave messages on voice mail.)

Thoughts?

I doubt Cindy would leave it that way. I'm sure she'd leave a message because she just wouldn't chance Casey not calling her back. With all the activity Casey had on her cell phone it would be too easy for her to overlook a missed call and I'm sure Cindy knew that.

 

[BondJamesBond]

However, the next use of the phone is a call to AL about an hour later. If she was looking for the phone at 7:45, why didn't she do something with it soon after? :waitasec:

I am now inclined to believe it was CA who called, but for the purpose of seeing if KC was up without risking going in and waking Caylee. The phone was probably set to vibrate, so that would have been less likely to wake Caylee than opening the door would.

*snip*

FWIW...a bit of a recap along these lines...walking the tight-rope on the pings thread...

Tony appears to have fallen asleep (or been otherwise occupied during the texting in the wee hours of the morning) 3 texts in a row from Casey w/ no response. Then, finally, Tony returns with a text, then actually calls Casey ~3:20 in the morning for ~10min conversation. Maybe an "I'm sorry, I fell asleep..blah, blah..." mia copa call.

THEN, after the call Casey sends ONE MORE text to Tony...

(tick, tick, tick....)

....NO reply from Tony

Sooooo.....methinks worthy of serious consideration as the purpose for find-a-phone-@7:45AM was Casey's desire to see if Tony ever responded to that last salvo she fired off before falling asleep.

 

[Chezhire]

SNIPPED: "... Sooooo.....methinks worthy of serious consideration as the purpose for find-a-phone-@7:45AM was Casey's desire to see if Tony ever responded to that last salvo she fired off before falling asleep."

ITA with the above - this is my present belief of why Casey could have been the one calling her own number from the Anthony home that morning.
Course, ya know I think that girl was almost attached to that darn phone by her ears/hands, so how she couldn't find it when she awoke is beyond me :doh:

 

[Searchfortruth]

I wonder if their was a lock on the bedroom door where KC and Caylee slept and if that is the reason Cindy called Casey's cell phone that morning...couldn't open bedroom door because it was locked ?

 

[Searchfortruth]

One more question for the night, I read a couple of pages back that it's possible Casey's pings were in the area of Lee's house from 3am on 6/16 on, and then I have read that the pings pointed to her being at Hopespring all night 15th into 16th. Is there a clear answer on this yet, or best educated guess ?

 

[BondJamesBond]

One more question for the night, I read a couple of pages back that it's possible Casey's pings were in the area of Lee's house from 3am on 6/16 on, and then I have read that the pings pointed to her being at Hopespring all night 15th into 16th. Is there a clear answer on this yet, or best educated guess ?

Lemme give it a shot, Search.

In general, we can't really distinguish between G&C's and Lee's w/ the pings, esp. not for a short period of time. Even though Casey was a prolific cell phone user we don't have a period of time when we can say w/ certainty she was @ Lee's by which to compare the data when we know she was @ G&C's. This is also true of 6/15-6/16.

I could type a page on the explanation, and I'm sure folks would prolly appreciate if I didn't.

We can make a weak argument that when the pings don't bounce back and forth between the 3 towers around G&C's (e.g. 10 pings in a row on 1 tower vs. the almost constant back-n-forth suggest 1 location vs. the other). This does happen...but, I hafta admit it isn't a solid indication we can hang our hat on.

I did a statistical analysis on the pings of 8pm-8am 6/2-6/9 vs. 6/10-6/14 on the "Seeking key information..." thread. The results suggest w/ considerably high confidence that Casey may have been near-but-not-@ G&C's 6/10-6/14.

Hope that helps.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Lemme give it a shot, Search.

In general, we can't really distinguish between G&C's and Lee's w/ the pings, esp. not for a short period of time. Even though Casey was a prolific cell phone user we don't have a period of time when we can say w/ certainty she was @ Lee's by which to compare the data when we know she was @ G&C's. This is also true of 6/15-6/16.

I could type a page on the explanation, and I'm sure folks would prolly appreciate if I didn't.

We can make a weak argument that when the pings don't bounce back and forth between the 3 towers around G&C's (e.g. 10 pings in a row on 1 tower vs. the almost constant back-n-forth suggest 1 location vs. the other). This does happen...but, I hafta admit it isn't a solid indication we can hang our hat on.

I did a statistical analysis on the pings of 8pm-8am 6/2-6/9 vs. 6/10-6/14 on the "Seeking key information..." thread. The results suggest w/ considerably high confidence that Casey may have been near-but-not-@ G&C's 6/10-6/14.

Hope that helps.

Tremendous help ! I guess it would have been easier if Lee lived atleast a couple of miles away ! I am afraid this could be a problem, to include the area where the remains were found, as far as positively ID'ing her location...the three places are so close together, Hopespring, Lee's house and Suburban.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Tremendous help ! I guess it would have been easier if Lee lived atleast a couple of miles away ! I am afraid this could be a problem, to include the area where the remains were found, as far as positively ID'ing her location...the three places are so close together, Hopespring, Lee's house and Suburban.

Glad it helped.

FWIW, you could consider it a glass-half-full situation. Pings put Casey in the area at the time Caylee was last seen, and at time (when details of forensics released) consistent with when the body was believed to have been disposed. IMHO, it is much better than...say...the body showing up in a location where Casey never pinged. Hope that helps.