Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[MAMABEAR]

Newbie here. Could you tell me where you are reading the autopsy report?
Also does anyone know if the tape was sent off for DNA testing as KC might have used her teeth to rip it from the roll?
Thank you in advance for your answers.

Welcome! Sorry nobody answered you question. Maybe they did via private message. Go here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=166"]Caylee Anthony 2 years old - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I keep this page up at all times and refresh to see if there are any new post. It won't take you long to get the hang of how to get around here. The title of each thread is listed here.

There are several threads about the autopsy report. If it gets to you to much go here and let it all hang out:

"Emotional Reactions to the Autopsy Report"
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3892819&posted=1#post3892819
:blowkiss:

 

[Marina2]

And risk GA wondering why Caylee is sleeping in until after noon, go in to check on her and not find her? The absence of a live child all morning long is what I find problematic, especially since after the afternoon of the 16th she avoided her parents like the plague.

Hence the "I dropped her off between 9am and 1pm..." See, GA didn't see Caylee at all that morning and it would be problematic if GA had ever confronted her about it. He didn't ask her about it because she left on the 16th and made sure that he never got the chance. He didn't even have reason to ask about it until a month later when all the pieces came together in his mind and he realized what happened.

AFAIK, the 9am-1pm story covers any question GA may have about the events of that morning. When GA looked back on that morning, I'm sure he had many questions. I think, sadly, the only answer he could arrive at was the unthinkable. That's when all the confusion about the morning of the 16th started. CA and GA attempted to erase any doubt about the morning being anything but "...a normal day."

A question I have about that morning (one of many) is, where were CA, GA, and KC's cars parked when CA left for work on the 16th. GA stated that he was "almost positive" KC's car was in the driveway when he returned home from work around 11pm on the 15th. Somebody had to get out there on the 16th and play musical cars to let CA out of the driveway.
There's no mention of this in their stories about that morning. If CA moved KC's car (I doubt it) then it went behind GA's vehicle. If this is the case and GA did leave that afternoon before KC did (new theory based on GA's 3 pm call to the A home) then someone had to move KC's car from behind GA's. Or, was KC's car in the driveway at all when GA got home that night. He states that he is "almost positive" about that but, his immediate follow up to that question is that he saw KC and Caylee leave on the 16th at ten minutes to 1pm.... "that, I'm doggone positive of." He doesn't seem to be positive about anything but that. Yep, he is positive that whatever happened, Caylee left that house alive on the 16th.

So many questions but I'm confident that the 9-1pm story was concocted by KC to explain any question GA may have about not seeing Caylee that morning before he left.

 

[Marina2]

I wonder if they found sandbox sand in the car's trunk.

I think they released the results of the soil testing on the trunk and no match or exclusions were noted. I don't know if they did any testing on the soil from the bags but sand was found in the laundry bag.

From Dr. G's description of the laundry bag. pg. 6446

"There is fine silt and sand present in the bag, as well as dirt."

I wonder if the sand from the laundry bag was tested or if they had any reason to believe that this sand was not from the sand box.

 

[celticthyme]

I look at this from the perspective of how everything in Casey’s life just kept falling apart, and she is not mentally stable from the get go.
Computer searches for chloroform, household weapons, and telling folks her parents were getting divorced, leading Amy to believe she could move into the house, leads me to think she’d been planning to get rid of her parents, NOT CAYLEE, initially. No need for this stuff with a toddler.
Two hours in a hot car would nearly kill her.

Things had definitely been taking a downward spiral for Casey.
• Caylee was growing up, talking more, having more ‘terrible two” episodes, and generally becoming too much bother, especially with her social/sexual life.
• Cindy and George were coming down hard on her for not taking more responsibility with Caylee, no money and too much partying.
• Cindy’s visit to the counselor gave her the impetus to confront Casey about her behavior, especially the stealing,lies, & lack of involvement with Caylee
• that, coupled with being serious about getting legal custody
• The over the top thing for Cindy, was Casey’s stealing from her parents. Cindy could not keep up the pretense of what a DEVIANT Casey was any more
• The over the top thing for Casey was all this being thrown in her face with the confrontation on the evening of June 15th
• I think she killed Caylee somewhere late that night or on the 16th.
• The body was probably in the back yard, then the trunk, and tossed into the woods somewhere between the 19th & 24th, giving the decomposition fluids plenty of time to saturate areas of the trunk.

Having been out all day with Grandma, then swimming, probably without a nap, made Caylee pretty tired and cranky. The horrible fight( worse than usual) between Mom & Grandma, had to frighten her so she pretty much could be screaming from all these events. She couldn't settle down to sleep.Casey is loosing it now. Runs to the garage for the duct tape & just starts ripping and wrapping. Caylee is in her t shirt & pullup, gets wrapped in her WTP blanket & put in the playhouse, set down briefly by the pool, so Casey can make room there. ( or something very similar to these events . (in my mind)

I do not believe George and Cindy had anything to do with the physical death of Caylee, or the moving or burying the remains. I think alarm sirens went off for Cindy the night of July 15th, and cindy knew Casey was really out of control and could be capable of harming that child. The excited utterances from the entire family, initially, convince me of that.
They went into cover up mode shortly thereafter, and there they are. Lee, I hope, is running as fast as he can from the whole lot of them. He can still be ‘salvaged” of he does.
Surely only my opinion.

 

[CuriousTwo]

If this is not the appropriate thread for this topic, feel free to move it - I couldn't find one that seemed to fit better.

Just saw the following statement relating to the Sunfire test results (bold my own):
================

"Whoever did this put the duct tape over the child's mouth. I wouldn't be surprised if the child actually died from suffocation, but what's more important I think is when you bring in the chemical analysis of the trunk into play, when you actually read the analysis from the trunk, it says there's higher levels of a certain compound that is present when a person is dying from suffocation -- which is a lack of oxygen. All in all, I think that's why the state is seeking the death penalty is because Caylee Anthony, no matter how she died, whether it was from the duct tape of from being in the trunk, suffered. For a few minutes, she knew she was dying. She knew she was in pain. She suffered tremendously," defense attorney Richard Hornsby said.
==============================

Here's the link:
http://www.wesh.com/news/19801945/detail.html

Am I interpreting this statement correctly - that according to the forensic testing on the trunk, they conclude that Caylee died IN the trunk as a result of suffocation (lack of oxygen)?

This would mean that she couldn't have died in the house or elsewhere. Forgive me if this confirmation of cause/location of death is old news - it's the first time I read it.

 

[Brini]

I'm confussed. Forgive me if this has already been addressed...we all know Caylee wore white pin-striped shorts to the nursing home to visit Great Grandpa June 15th. I thought after Caylee's body was found, there were remenants of these same white pin-stripped shorts found. The only thing different was the shirt she was captured wearing on video.
Blue vs pink perhaps? And the lettering...aren't quite a few of the letters on her pink shirt missing? Didn't it orginally say something like "Big Trouble comes in Small packages" and the letters found with her skeleton only make out part of this quote?

Yes, but animals might steal bits of cloth-- like the letters, to make nests.

 

[panthera]

:clap::clap::clap:

If anyone believes that George A can recall the details of the late morning/early afternoon of June 16, 2008 in JULY, I've got this GREAT risk free offer to tell you about....

I've always believed he was "mistaken". Originally none of them could even remember what date they last saw Caylee so how could he possibly remember exactly what she was wearing on "just another normal day"? :waitasec:

 

[panthera]

Question ~ if Caylee was duct taped and the process of killing her started while Casey was away from home, did she already have the duct tape in the car, as well as the blanket, laundry bag and trash bags? If Casey had just taken Caylee and rushed out of the house after the fight with CA, I don't think she would've grabbed these items in her hurry to leave. This makes me still believe she was killed there inside the house and maybe put inside the bags while still alive. MOO

 

[Devon]

If this is not the appropriate thread for this topic, feel free to move it - I couldn't find one that seemed to fit better.

Just saw the following statement relating to the Sunfire test results (bold my own):
================

"Whoever did this put the duct tape over the child's mouth. I wouldn't be surprised if the child actually died from suffocation, but what's more important I think is when you bring in the chemical analysis of the trunk into play, when you actually read the analysis from the trunk, it says there's higher levels of a certain compound that is present when a person is dying from suffocation -- which is a lack of oxygen. All in all, I think that's why the state is seeking the death penalty is because Caylee Anthony, no matter how she died, whether it was from the duct tape of from being in the trunk, suffered. For a few minutes, she knew she was dying. She knew she was in pain. She suffered tremendously," defense attorney Richard Hornsby said.
==============================

Here's the link:
http://www.wesh.com/news/19801945/detail.html

Am I interpreting this statement correctly - that according to the forensic testing on the trunk, they conclude that Caylee died IN the trunk as a result of suffocation (lack of oxygen)?

This would mean that she couldn't have died in the house or elsewhere. Forgive me if this confirmation of cause/location of death is old news - it's the first time I read it.

RH has got his facts wrong. The reports do not refer to high levels of a compound which is present when a person is dying of suffocation - they refer to a decomposition event that appears to have occurred in oxygen-deprived (anaerobic) conditions.

 

[CuriousTwo]

Thanks for the clarification, Devon. Sure makes it difficult to know what to believe and what not to believe, doesn't it?

 

[MissJames]

Question ~ if Caylee was duct taped and the process of killing her started while Casey was away from home, did she already have the duct tape in the car, as well as the blanket, laundry bag and trash bags? If Casey had just taken Caylee and rushed out of the house after the fight with CA, I don't think she would've grabbed these items in her hurry to leave. This makes me still believe she was killed there inside the house and maybe put inside the bags while still alive. MOO

Excellent point.

 

[Marina2]

RH has got his facts wrong. The reports do not refer to high levels of a compound which is present when a person is dying of suffocation - they refer to a decomposition event that appears to have occurred in oxygen-deprived (anaerobic) conditions.

I suspected that was what he based his information on. Anaerobic decomposition occurs within the body, early in the decomposition process. It's called anaerobic decomposition because the primary bacteria that are beginning the decomposition process thrive in an oxygen-free environment (as in a dead body). These bacteria are classified as anaerobic bacteria because they can only live where there is no oxygen. In later stages, when the body is open to the environment, these bacteria die off and other bacteria take their place.

 

[MAMABEAR]

Question ~ if Caylee was duct taped and the process of killing her started while Casey was away from home, did she already have the duct tape in the car, as well as the blanket, laundry bag and trash bags? If Casey had just taken Caylee and rushed out of the house after the fight with CA, I don't think she would've grabbed these items in her hurry to leave. This makes me still believe she was killed there inside the house and maybe put inside the bags while still alive. MOO

She could have had the tape in the car (front or back)---the other stuff could have been gotten or done later. Member she stole tape from Amy. Cudda been with her in the car. Always sounded like the car was more or less trashed/untidy. When she got thru with it---she could have thrown it in the car. Amy used it all the time and I can see KC picking up that lil habit from Amy. She probably thought Amy was neat and tidy and was smart to keep d-tape. That would put the d-tape in the car.

 

[Devon]

Thanks for the clarification, Devon. Sure makes it difficult to know what to believe and what not to believe, doesn't it?

Yes - it's hard enough wading through the evidence in this case without inaccuracies in the press confusing us even more! :waitasec:

 

[magic-cat]

Question ~ if Caylee was duct taped and the process of killing her started while Casey was away from home, did she already have the duct tape in the car, as well as the blanket, laundry bag and trash bags? If Casey had just taken Caylee and rushed out of the house after the fight with CA, I don't think she would've grabbed these items in her hurry to leave. This makes me still believe she was killed there inside the house and maybe put inside the bags while still alive. MOO

Oh God I hope not. Poor Caylee. What did she go through? Did she suffer? Was she afraid? Did she struggle? Was she bound? Was she looking into her mothers eyes as she placed the tape over her face? In all honesty I almost hope that she DID chloroform her and that Caylee was asleep for whatever followed and that she did not awaken in the midst of it and have to suffer. We may never know what Casey did to her, but I am sure the state is going to tell us what they think happened and have the experts to back it up based on what evidence they DO have. God bless sweet Caylee.

 

[magic-cat]

RH has got his facts wrong. The reports do not refer to high levels of a compound which is present when a person is dying of suffocation - they refer to a decomposition event that appears to have occurred in oxygen-deprived (anaerobic) conditions.

However, the fact that this fella got his information wrong in no way is indicative that Caylee did NOT die in this manner either. She very well could have suffocated. All her airways taped shut is a pretty good giveaway that she could not have breathed.

 

[Devon]

However, the fact that this fella got his information wrong in no way is indicative that Caylee did NOT die in this manner either. She very well could have suffocated. All her airways taped shut is a pretty good giveaway that she could not have breathed.

Agreed - if it can be established that the tape was applied before death. I'm guessing that's not possible to determine, otherwise I would think the reports would at least include an inference that that was the most likely conclusion.

 

[magic-cat]

The reports do state that it was prior to decomposition. Decomposition begins at the moment of death, correct?

 

[panthera]

Excellent point.

It's something we'll probably never get an answer to, but I'm just curious if she already had the duct tape roll in the car or not. :waitasec:

 

[Devon]

The reports do state that it was prior to decomposition. Decomposition begins at the moment of death, correct?

It says prior to 'decomposition and the hair mat forming'. I don't think they are stating that it must have been fixed before death, but that it must have been before decomp. changes could have affected the end result. That's my interpretation of the findings anyway because although decomp. does start almost immediately it's some time before there's any major structural change to the exterior surfaces of the body that could possibly impact upon, and therefore define and fix, the point when the end result might have been different.