Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

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It says prior to 'decomposition and the hair mat forming'. I don't think they are stating that it must have been fixed before death, but that it must have been before decomp. changes could have affected the end result. That's my interpretation of the findings anyway because although decomp. does start almost immediately it's some time before there's any major structural change to the exterior surfaces of the body that could possibly impact upon, and therefore define and fix, the point when the end result might have been different.
I agree that this is far as the ME could go in her determination. Her conclusion doesn't rule out placement before death though. If it was placed before death, her conclusion would have remained the same because she had no evidence to base that on.
 
:clap::clap::clap:

If anyone believes that George A can recall the details of the late morning/early afternoon of June 16, 2008 in JULY, I've got this GREAT risk free offer to tell you about....

I don't believe for a minute anything GA says he remembers about the 16th. What I'm saying is that it was too risky for KC to sit around all morning uploading pictures from Fusian with a dead baby on her hands (whether she was in the bed, in the sandbox, in the trunk, etc.) I think if KC killed overnight she would have shot out of the house early in the morning, and we know that she was on the home computer at some point between 9 and 10.
 
I've always believed he was "mistaken". Originally none of them could even remember what date they last saw Caylee so how could he possibly remember exactly what she was wearing on "just another normal day"? :waitasec:

Sure they remembered! They last saw her on the 9th!(where's the roll-eyes smiley?) ;-)
 
I don't believe for a minute anything GA says he remembers about the 16th. What I'm saying is that it was too risky for KC to sit around all morning uploading pictures from Fusian with a dead baby on her hands (whether she was in the bed, in the sandbox, in the trunk, etc.) I think if KC killed overnight she would have shot out of the house early in the morning, and we know that she was on the home computer at some point between 9 and 10.

Except that if GA had run into her---all she had to say is that she took Caylee over to zanny's earlier.
 
I think she decided to do it on the night of the 15th but didn't carry it out until the 16th after GA had gone to work and she came back to the house. If she had killed her during the night I imagine she would have hightailed it out of there in the morning rather than hang around the house all morning uploading photos and texting with a dead body on her hands and her dad in the house.

Tony did not have to go to school Monday, June 16. Why hang out in her parent's house if Caylee was gone? I see Caylee as the only reason for Casey to have to be at her parent's house.

I understand Casey waiting until George left to figure out what to do with Caylee's body. But, you'd think that as soon as Caylee was gone Casey would hustle to get over to her safe place. Instead Casey texted, talked on her cell phone and even was on the computer. Why the lollygagging?

Maybe the fight with Cindy was not the final straw? Maybe the time with George was not the way George reported it? It is not like George doesn't have a temper. Maybe George added fuel to the fire by getting on Casey's case too.

Then later in the afternoon Casey's parents insulted Casey further by not responding to her phone calls. Then maybe Caylee picked at Casey by trying to get her attention while Casey was "busy"...

"If you don't close that mouth, Caylee, I'll duct tape it shut."

JMO
 
Tony did not have to go to school Monday, June 16. Why hang out in her parent's house if Caylee was gone? I see Caylee as the only reason for Casey to have to be at her parent's house.

I understand Casey waiting until George left to figure out what to do with Caylee's body. But, you'd think that as soon as Caylee was gone Casey would hustle to get over to her safe place. Instead Casey texted, talked on her cell phone and even was on the computer. Why the lollygagging?

Maybe the fight with Cindy was not the final straw? Maybe the time with George was not the way George reported it? It is not like George doesn't have a temper. Maybe George added fuel to the fire by getting on Casey's case too.

Then later in the afternoon Casey's parents insulted Casey further by not responding to her phone calls. Then maybe Caylee picked at Casey by trying to get her attention while Casey was "busy"...

"If you don't close that mouth, Caylee, I'll duct tape it shut."

JMO


Maybe KC had planned this thing up but she didn't have a date to act and then life closed in on her so she acted hastily. Maybe she remembered part of her "thought up plans" after the fact, such as "do what you ordinarily do, stick to your normal schedule". Maybe if Caylee was killed early on the 16th, when she got thru the "deed" she remembered to do her ordinary things--such as texting, computer, etc. ?? Just a thought.
 
Okay, I have been thinking about this constantly and it is the one topic that I keep thinking about before going to sleep which keeps me up for hours. So, maybe if I type my theories (which aren't complete but I will tell them anyway) :) I will be able to sleep before 12 tonight.

My opinions of how Caylee was killed vary depending on evidence that has been presented and I admit that I am one of those that did not or could not believe that Caylee was dead until the body was found. I knew the chances were high but......

Anyway, I think back and always remember KC saying that she wanted immunity to talk to the police at one point... I thought what kind of mother is asking for this?? I should have known at that point that Caylee was dead but there could have been other scenarios so I chose not to.

So, I keep remembering this and wonder what she would want this for and who she would be turning in to get this immunity from. Now, all along the defense seems to be pointing to JG and I am not saying that it is him that is involved and I don't want to be a JG basher by any means, I just think he could be an option. She also mentioned at the beginning something about the police to her parents and others. JG being a police officer obviously gets me thinking of him but also AR.

Here is one thing I was thinking about. Instead of dissecting every thing we learn from computer searches, like chloroform which I think can be KC wanting to know things and be smart in front of her friends and if she didn't know about this then she researched it for her own knowledge and talking with RM. How to make it and household weapons make me think along the lines that she was involved in something, maybe prostitution on some level or drug dealing. This helps her get ready if a bad moment happens and or chloroform is also something that maybe she thought she could use.

She talked for weeks with her friends about going to Puerto Rico and then she can't go. I wonder if she assumed her mom would send her or give her the money but that was a no go when she found out about the credit cards and then the grandmother's money. You know she wasn't getting a dime. So, to get a lot of extra cash fast a great way to do it is by selling drugs.
Again, not accusing anyone, but as I (from RI) view Orlando, it seems like a lot of deaths, crime, child molesters and drugs. I know that isn't all and I love it there but this is what is on the news. So, if drugs were such a big thing, and especially the arrests, who is to say that there wasn't a big drug bust, or drugs in the PD that either did not make their way to an official logging in or were taken at one point. This is why I questioned why JG resigned. I know that is personal but the only thing I wonder is if it had to do with drugs...... Let's say there was some type of syphoning from the drug collections at the PD and this was done by JG maybe AR or even other officers that are never mentioned. They get the drugs to KC because they can't sell them and she has them stashed in her bag or in her drawer ready to sell. KC and Caylee do leave around 12 or 1 on the 16th only to drive around until GA is out of the house and during this time Caylee falls asleep. Once GA leaves, she waits a few more minutes then brings Caylee in to sleep on her bed, where CA says her Pooh blanket usually is (KC's bed). She goes into another room and talks on the phone I think it is to AH and does other stuff and then goes into the bedroom to check on Caylee, and notices she is on the floor by her bed? or on the bed and not breathing. Maybe Caylee had woken up and was playing in the room and came across the drugs that KC was supposed to sell. She could have eaten them or swallowed some but however, has now od'ed and it has been who knows how long. At this time, KC realizes what happened - it is the drugs which she shouldn't have had, got from a police officer and who the heck would believe that, calls JG and tells him what happened and doesn't now what to do. He tells her that if she does tell on whoever (prob not him again but another officer or officers) she may be in deep trouble but even if she doesn't, she is going to go to jail because she had the drugs and depending on the amount, if it was a big amount, there would be more time in jail.

Well, there is no bringing Caylee back at this point, and if she says anything she is going to jail. She may reason that she can give her her own funeral and bury her someplace thoughtful and it would be okay. Who says what the average person does is the right way anyway? She puts her in the closest thing that she can to carry her and will cover her if someone comes in the house which is the laundry bag and puts her pooh blanket on top. Goes to the back porch and puts the bag down to open the door because she is holding it with two hands and can't open without putting it down. Brings her to the back yard and puts her on or near the sandbox for a minute and looks for a good place where Caylee would want to be buried. Finds one, puts Caylee in the play house so if someone comes home, they wont see her and takes a shovel and tries to dig. Um, it is harder to dig a hole than she thought so she nixes that idea, puts the shovel back and brings Caylee to the trunk of the car until she can figure out what to do. At this time ?? maybe, she sees that Caylee is foaming around the mouth and maybe the nose, which is what made me first think of drugs like heroin, but I do know that it is also common for other people who did not od to do this, so after she places her in the trunk, grabs the duct tape and covers her mouth and nose, and ears - the places that you would assume the fluids would leave from and she has a pullup on so that would stop those right? She doesn't like the looks and goes and gets a heart sticker to sweeten the whole look up and places it on Caylee. A day or two goes by, and it stinks, GA may have seen the laundry bag, I am not sure but I thought he said there was one in the car during the gas can episode. After that, KC thinks it is wise to put the whole thing in a trash bag so no one sees and hopefully to stop the smell and stop the fluid from leaking through the laundry bag into her car.

It stays in that car until she figures out what she is going to do with it. She is not an evil person right? so she will still put her in a place that has meaning and bring her to the place where they used to bury their loved pets. She takes another trash bag, because she doesn't want to touch the first one because that too may have leakage on it and puts the trash bag, laundry bag and Caylee into it before she carries it to Caylee's final burial place. I don't know if she dug and the body was washed up due to the rain or whatever, I don't know.

I think KC can push things away. In her head the deed was done, it wasn't her fault and she needn't be too upset over what happened. Her mom is a b--ch anyway and maybe she will tell her but after each passing day, it is harder and harder. At first she figured her dad would understand - being a cop and all but she can't as the days go by.

I don't know if I view the fight as a breaking point. I have a feeling that there were many arguments like that and KC could always get away with it in the end by lying or using Caylee as a bargaining chip so I don't think she was so upset.

Stealing the money from AH? or was it the other AD? Maybe this was the person that the drugs were going to so she felt that this person owed her and maybe thought if they weren't going to them this whole thing wouldn't have happened......

Well, I feel like I just wrote a novel and like I said, this is my guess right now. It may be different if there is more info tomorrow. lol Hopefully I can get some sleep now. Feel free to pick it apart :)
 
Maybe KC had planned this thing up but she didn't have a date to act and then life closed in on her so she acted hastily. Maybe she remembered part of her "thought up plans" after the fact, such as "do what you ordinarily do, stick to your normal schedule". Maybe if Caylee was killed early on the 16th, when she got thru the "deed" she remembered to do her ordinary things--such as texting, computer, etc. ?? Just a thought.
I think a few questions might be answered if we knew the content of the many texts/calls between her and TL the night of the 15th. One explanation might be he had other plans for the daytime of the 16th, so she hung around the house even though Caylee was already gone? :waitasec: MOO
 
It says prior to 'decomposition and the hair mat forming'. I don't think they are stating that it must have been fixed before death, but that it must have been before decomp. changes could have affected the end result. That's my interpretation of the findings anyway because although decomp. does start almost immediately it's some time before there's any major structural change to the exterior surfaces of the body that could possibly impact upon, and therefore define and fix, the point when the end result might have been different.

Remember this is in the trunk of a car in the Florida heat in dead summer. Total deterioration and skeletonization would have been achieved in approximately two weeks. Things speed up substantially in the heat, and especially in that oxygen deprived state. For that tape to have held in place, even with the hair coming off of the skull and the tissues deteriorating completely, it had to have been on their tight. And they are very clear that it was over both her mouth and her nose. Tight tape. Into the hair. Tight enough to hold the jaw in place and keep the hair at the base of the skull. Someone put that tape on GOOD. They did not mean for it to come off. And since Dr. G is a scientist, then I assume she lays things out in her scientific reports according to exactly what they mean and for a Coroner, decomposition begins at the very moments proceeding death. Dr. G would need to be further questioned about when exactly she means-pre-death, or pre-total deterioration. In the language that she uses, as the professional that she is, I believe that prior to decomposition would mean while living or VERY shortly after death-like within hours...But I am not an expert...alas...so I guess we either need an expert to weigh in and and help a sister out, or we await the trial when all of our questions will be asked and answered.:banghead:

Tony did not have to go to school Monday, June 16. Why hang out in her parent's house if Caylee was gone? I see Caylee as the only reason for Casey to have to be at her parent's house.

I understand Casey waiting until George left to figure out what to do with Caylee's body. But, you'd think that as soon as Caylee was gone Casey would hustle to get over to her safe place. Instead Casey texted, talked on her cell phone and even was on the computer. Why the lollygagging?

Maybe the fight with Cindy was not the final straw? Maybe the time with George was not the way George reported it? It is not like George doesn't have a temper. Maybe George added fuel to the fire by getting on Casey's case too.

Then later in the afternoon Casey's parents insulted Casey further by not responding to her phone calls. Then maybe Caylee picked at Casey by trying to get her attention while Casey was "busy"...

"If you don't close that mouth, Caylee, I'll duct tape it shut."

JMO

Underlining mine. Man, I think you hit the nail on the head right there. I am thinking that if Caylee was still alive on the 16th, and I think she may have been, that when there was no answer to any of her calls and she knew she was not going to be able to get to Tony she went and got the roll of tape and she taped up Caylees mouth AND nose and she threw her in the trunk. At some point she may have used chloroform on her in this process which she had on hand already. I am so afraid that Caylee was in the trunk while they were in the BlockBuster...I so hope that is not the case.

I think a few questions might be answered if we knew the content of the many texts/calls between her and TL the night of the 15th. One explanation might be he had other plans for the daytime of the 16th, so she hung around the house even though Caylee was already gone? :waitasec: MOO

Cannot wait to see all the missing texts. The ones between her and Tony. The ones between her and her parents. The ones between her and Lee. The ones between her and Annie. Am I missing any?
 
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85576"]New Smoking Gun Theories for DP - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
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