Possible Murder Motives#2

[Shlock Homes]

The swipe card evidence show that Clark and Annie were in the same room together.

That's what I've understood. But the fact they don't mention other people swipes doesn't prove they were alone. They're building a case (in the media) so that it appears Ray Clark is guilty as charged. I just want to find out if he really did it or didn't. If there's doubt then, he shouldn't be hanged before his trial. They don't even say if other people were seen entering the basement area before the time Annie arrived, and if they all left during the fire alarm.

 

[Shlock Homes]

I was wondering about this earlier, JL50ish. Have they said exactly what kind of room the crime was supposed to have taken place in? Was it a lab with a bunch of mice cages around? Was it a room she normally went to, that she'd have a reason to visit? If it was a supply room or something like that, what was she doing there?

Have they said what was the last room her card swipe was made? And what time that was?

 

[Labrat]

That's what I've understood. But the fact they don't mention other people swipes doesn't prove they were alone. They're building a case (in the media) so that it appears Ray Clark is guilty as charged. I just want to find out if he really did it or didn't. If there's doubt then, he shouldn't be hanged before his trial. They don't even say if other people were seen entering the basement area before the time Annie arrived, and if they all left during the fire alarm.

I saw a news report where the police chief said they had interviewed everyone who entered the facility that morning and had gotten voluntary DNA samples.
Of course other people entered before her- all the other animal facility staff would have already been in there. No one had to be seen- it'll all be in the key card records. Because of that, I think there's very little doubt, considering the DNA on the body and the clothes in the ceiling, the green pen, the lie detector test he failed, the fact everyone else gave DNA voluntarily and he waited for a search warrant, that he told police he never saw her that morning when the swipes say differently- that police observed him cleaning up and discovered blood on the cleaning tools. I think this case has the absolute least room for doubt I've ever seen.

 

[Shlock Homes]

I saw a news report where the police chief said they had interviewed everyone who entered the facility that morning and had gotten voluntary DNA samples.
Of course other people entered before her- all the other animal facility staff would have already been in there. No one had to be seen- it'll all be in the key card records. Because of that, I think there's very little doubt, considering the DNA on the body and the clothes in the ceiling, the green pen, the lie detector test he failed, the fact everyone else gave DNA voluntarily and he waited for a search warrant, that he told police he never saw her that morning when the swipes say differently- that police observed him cleaning up and discovered blood on the cleaning tools. I think this case has the absolute least room for doubt I've ever seen.

It's still really strange with so many people there, nobody witnessed a thing. And he was able to move her body from area to another without being detected. When would he have had time alone down there to move that body from one area to the next if it's crawling with lab researchers?

 

[MWright]

I saw a news report where the police chief said they had interviewed everyone who entered the facility that morning and had gotten voluntary DNA samples.
Of course other people entered before her- all the other animal facility staff would have already been in there. No one had to be seen- it'll all be in the key card records. Because of that, I think there's very little doubt, considering the DNA on the body and the clothes in the ceiling, the green pen, the lie detector test he failed, the fact everyone else gave DNA voluntarily and he waited for a search warrant, that he told police he never saw her that morning when the swipes say differently- that police observed him cleaning up and discovered blood on the cleaning tools. I think this case has the absolute least room for doubt I've ever seen.

... and her blood (verified by DNA) on RC's shoes, RCs irregular swipe card pattern, RC texting her that morning to come over to meet with him (RC), the "deep" scratches on RC's body, the emails between RC and Le, and oh yeah, another person who works in the building ran into RC with blood on his shirt....

I think on any one point, someone could try to argue for another explanation, but on ALL these points (including Labrat's), taken altogether??? Otherwise known as converging evidence against RC.

 

[MWright]

A news article talking about possible motive. Similar theory to what many in this thread have proffered... (apologies if this has already been posted)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/annie-le-success-suspect-ray-clark-cleaned-cages/story?id=8618934

Excerpt:
"If Clark committed the crime he is accused of, a criminologist told ABCNews.com his actions might be explained by what sociologists call "relative deprivation."

That psychological mind set can be triggered "when you are measuring your own self worth against others and you come out on the bottom," according to Northeastern University criminologist Jack Levin, who has been following press accounts of the case.

"[Ray Clark] worked in an Ivy League school where most of his co-workers were potentially successful and had advanced degrees and were looking forward to a fulfilling and happy life," said Levin. "He was cleaning cages." ... The psychological need for control is often "underestimated as a motive for murder," according to Levin. ... "We think of control as obsessive compulsion, but another control is regaining a sense of power by squeezing the life out of a happy, successful co-worker," said Levin. "

 

[JBean]

Have they said what was the last room her card swipe was made? And what time that was?

This may help:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4178244&postcount=2"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timeline - Updated 9/18/09[/ame]



Sept. 8th (10:00a) - Annie on video being let into building on Amistad.

- moments later passed through basement lab area
- Annie swipes her way into a separate room of lab (last card swipe for Annie)
- CLARK enters same room short time later
- Clark moves around laboratory entering rooms he normally would not be in.
- Clark swipes into another area -- the place where Le's body eventually found after five days, stuffed into a 2-foot crawl space behind a wall.
- Clark swiped a total of 10 times including after hours
THE ABOVE INFORMATION FROM COMPUTERIZED CARD SWIPES

 

[JL50ish]

So it does sound like jealousy was the motive...jealous that all these "white coats" would soon be moving on to fabulously paid jobs, while he would be still stuck as some lowly-paid cage cleaner. I would suggest that he targetted her (instead of another doctoral student) because she was small, his age, and perhaps he was attracted sexually to her and there was some annoyance that he knew someone like her would never be interested in somone like him - hence the murder before the wedding.

And, it seems like Nancy Grace was on the right track when she repeatedly questioned experts how Clark fit Le in such a small space. Clark broke her bones in order to fit her in...that's probably why there was more blood than should have been with a strangling.

And, it is believed that Clark set up the (steam?) alarm...probably because the alarm that was activated was in the area that he had recently card swiped.

 

[YellowDog]

The thing that keeps coming back in my mind is the texting. This would indicate to me that they knew each other on a friendship basis of some kind. The murder seems to have happened not too long after she entered the area in the basement so I'm wondering if it was a pre-planned meeting. Could she have been so enraged over his messages that she immediately started confronting him and perhaps hitting him and he retaliated with full force?

 

[masscph]

The thing that keeps coming back in my mind is the texting. This would indicate to me that they knew each other on a friendship basis of some kind. The murder seems to have happened not too long after she entered the area in the basement so I'm wondering if it was a pre-planned meeting. Could she have been so enraged over his messages that she immediately started confronting him and perhaps hitting him and he retaliated with full force?

We might never know, but nothing in my world suggest that Annie should have been the confronting part, nor can i imagine her hitting anyone.

The description of how she was fitted into that hole, and the description of how Ray was obsessed by keeping cleanliness in his area, i could see annie coming into the building, maybe not going direct to the mice, then maybe a conversation about the importance of it, and then Ray exploding in rage. He was already up to his neck with rage over not being taken serious after maybe several warnings to her - when he entered the lab that day he was a bomb.

And from his behavior after the murder, the way he handled the body and the way he behaved the days after, i have a feeling that this guy doesnt regret what he has done, maybe except from the perspective that he has been caught.

I think racism/jelousy/hate from Ray is more likely than anything sexual towards Annie.

 

[concentric]

So it does sound like jealousy was the motive...jealous that all these "white coats" would soon be moving on to fabulously paid jobs, while he would be still stuck as some lowly-paid cage cleaner. I would suggest that he targetted her (instead of another doctoral student) because she was small, his age, and perhaps he was attracted sexually to her and there was some annoyance that he knew someone like her would never be interested in somone like him - hence the murder before the wedding.
QUOTE]

My post on 9/17

She's a superior to him. He resents that this petite woman is bossing him around, so to speak. He also could be the type of person who stereotypes any Asian woman as a sexual object and has a sick obsession to dominate them.

IMO, he probably was trying to rape her, but she fought him off. In a rage then, he strangled her to death.

 

[concentric]

A news article talking about possible motive. Similar theory to what many in this thread have proffered... (apologies if this has already been posted)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/annie-le-success-suspect-ray-clark-cleaned-cages/story?id=8618934

Excerpt:
"If Clark committed the crime he is accused of, a criminologist told ABCNews.com his actions might be explained by what sociologists call "relative deprivation."

That psychological mind set can be triggered "when you are measuring your own self worth against others and you come out on the bottom," according to Northeastern University criminologist Jack Levin, who has been following press accounts of the case.

"[Ray Clark] worked in an Ivy League school where most of his co-workers were potentially successful and had advanced degrees and were looking forward to a fulfilling and happy life," said Levin. "He was cleaning cages." ... The psychological need for control is often "underestimated as a motive for murder," according to Levin. ... "We think of control as obsessive compulsion, but another control is regaining a sense of power by squeezing the life out of a happy, successful co-worker," said Levin. "

Agree. I have been thinking about Clark. He is so young. Why did he think that the measure of his life was contained in that small space of years? Why couldn't he see that he wasn't going to be there forever? He destroyed her and him and he has made a shambles of many other lives. I just don't know how he couldn't see beyond this phase in his life.

 

[YellowDog]

She could also have had a bit of a Napoleon Complex.

 

[PatientOne]

In the Premeditation thread, I asked the question that since Annie's body was found wearing the same clothes she was seen wearing in the security photo of her entering the bldg., does it indicate she may have been in violation of regulations regarding proper lab apparel? Both labrat and joypath seemed to answer that yes, street clothes would've been an infraction.

Articles about Annie have stated that she was very interested in fashion, which makes me wonder if she may have failed to conform to lab apparel regulations on other occasions. If so, maybe it was another point of contention between her and RC.

 

[jjenny]

In the Premeditation thread, I asked the question that since Annie's body was found wearing the same clothes she was seen wearing in the security photo of her entering the bldg., does it indicate she may have been in violation of regulations regarding proper lab apparel? Both labrat and joypath seemed to answer that yes, street clothes would've been an infraction.

Articles about Annie have stated that she was very interested in fashion, which makes me wonder if she may have failed to conform to lab apparel regulations on other occasions. If so, maybe it was another point of contention between her and RC.

What do you think she was supposed to do with her street clothes?
A person is not going to undress when going into an animal facility.
Maybe she was supposed to have put a disposable gown over her clothes, but certainly not take them off.

 

[eyes4crime]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/video...t&title=9/21 Prosceutor Concerned About Leaks

This is the 3rd video I've seen this am indicating an impending arrest of a 2nd person...not surprising at all.

 

[concentric]

And, it seems like Nancy Grace was on the right track when she repeatedly questioned experts how Clark fit Le in such a small space. Clark broke her bones in order to fit her in...that's probably why there was more blood than should have been with a strangling.

UOTE]

I speculated over a week ago, that by the way the body was found, Clark was "belittling" Annie further, by stuffing her body into a 2ft. crevice.

 

[eyes4crime]

I'm sick of discussing labs and lab protocol! There isn't a shred of evidence indicating Annie violated protocol of any kind. Not in high school where she worked with animals, not in undergrad, and not now. I don't believe for one minute that Annie violated lab protocol. She did, however, take his text serious enough to respond and that misjudgement cost Annie her life. This isn't about lab protocol! It's about trying to lure Annie to an isolated place under the auspice of a concern. In my mind, the big question continues to be WHY? MHO

 

[PatientOne]

What do you think she was supposed to do with her street clothes?
A person is not going to undress when going into an animal facility.
Maybe she was supposed to have put a disposable gown over her clothes, but certainly not take them off.

I have no way of knowing actual lab rules and regulations (other than what I've read here on WS), or to what degree rules may or may not be tolerably bent. I have no way of knowing if researchers are provided with areas in the Amistad bldg. where they can change their apparel in order to conform to regulations. It's been said here that Animal techs have locker rooms in which to prepare themselves for entering labs. I wonder if researchers are likewise accomodated?

Since we're contemplating an as-yet-to-be-established motive for this horrible crime, and there've been accusations by other researchers that RC was "officious" about regulations, I'm just wondering if proper apparel may have been an issue.

 

[jjenny]

I have no way of knowing actual lab rules and regulations (other than what I've read here on WS), or to what degree rules may or may not be tolerably bent. I have no way of knowing if researchers are provided with areas in the Amistad bldg. where they can change their apparel in order to conform to regulations. It's been said here that Animal techs have locker rooms in which to prepare themselves for entering labs. I wonder if researchers are likewise accomodated?

Since we're contemplating an as-yet-to-be-established motive for this horrible crime, and there've been accusations by other researchers that RC was "officious" about regulations, I'm just wondering if proper apparel may have been an issue.

I personally very much doubt researchers were asked to undress and put on whole different set of clothes. The only thing I heard is that RC was demanding everybody wore shoe covers.