Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

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RubyB said:
That comment was in regard to GA's deposition. He went on & on, saying that he had a binder w/175 or so pages of his personal notes that was in the house when they left to go on LKL in Dec. When they were eventually able to return to their home, he said it was missing. He said that LE and JH were the only ones in the house and asked if OCSD had it.
He claims he can't think without it! :waitasec: They just blew him off...
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Mallory was there looking after the pets too.
 
Tiki said:
didn't GA have a white binder with him when he went before the GJ?
going to look for photo . . .

.
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sorry - bad manners to quote myself
but
here's a video of GA with a binder that day - about 1:10

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7N8pDbmaqE"]YouTube - Grandfather of Missing Tot Testifies in Court[/ame]
 
Something that is a little O/T, though it has been written about a little here: When LDB says she is there to protect the child, and not the family, and AL looks at KC as if to say "Oh poor child, can you believe she said that?" and KC feigns an emotional gulp....

(OK, yes this belongs on AL's thread, but I am too into my thought and not done reading here yet!)....AL makes me wanna puke-defense atty's don't have to believe that every one of their clients are innocent in order to do a professional and thorough job. They simply have to make sure that the Constitutional protections/state law are being applied fairly to their client and maybe (though not necessarily) invalidate the prosecutions evidence (without the defender lying, like Van Dammes atty).
This woman seems to seriously think that all accused are victims not of their own circumstances, but of the circumstances that we as society have thrust upon them. My opinion comes also from some of the professing I have heard her do. In this last hearing, she as looking at KC as if she wants to rub her hair and console her (or like she wants to put ketchup on KC and eat her)-It is just bizarre to me that this woman perpetuates victimhood in this way-Just do your job and defend the girl, don't worry if LDB offended KC. What do you guys care anyway, if KC is innocent?


ETA: Good example of a good defender-Robert Shapiro never consoled OJ and frankly I don't think he believed him, but it did not prevent him from doing a fantastic job at defending OJ.
 
3doglady said:
I think the objections were over two different issues. The second one was about the photos KC and JB sold. (Money for photos sealed by JS)

The first objection was about the list that CA kept trying to say that she did not recognize the handwriting. The SA is asking her to list the items she gave to JB, but she keeps going back to the list on the right side of the photo. She wants to make it clear that she had nothing to do with JB's list. This when JB starts saying NO, NO and zip it. He does not want anything on the record about that list. He does not want it known that he wrote it, not because of what is on the list but WHY he wants those items. Ashton finally settles it by saying this: " Perhaps I can suggest that you limit your answer to the physical items. Because the question was what items were given, rather than AN EXPLANATION OF WHY" So Ashton let the cat out of the bag without JB catching it. So the question is WHY did JB write the list. Why did JB want Caylee's DNA? What was he going to compare it to? This was long before Caylee was found. Did he want the items to prevent LE from getting Caylee's DNA? Did he want the DNA to compare because he knew where Caylee was? Maybe JB meant toothbrush when he wrote tooth on the list. AT one point CA said the toothbrush was in KC's backpack and JB objected and they went off record again.

The fact that JB wanted Caylee's DNA that soon shows that he knew Caylee was dead. That would be Attorney Client privilege so wouldn't anything that revealed that be sealed?
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Not if a third party has seen it-Then he would have to ask for it to be sealed for a reason other than privilege.
 
misheley26 said:
Can anyone direct me to the press conference that MB (Bart, as a reminder) did with the A's where CA looked like she was going to collapse or do we know the date of that pc at a minimum?

And DC...anyone recall the date LA and DC went to see KC together and date DC went into the woods based on the psychic's tip

Here's an idea...I'll call it The Frame Up Someone Else Solution
If we could see where CA really got heated/really over did it on selling she had no idea about something (DC's trip to the woods), we might be able to link those hot buttons together with some sort of take these things from the scene, leave these brand new things that have absolutely no DNA, move Caylee's body so we can hide it in our wall. The things on the right are non-DNA specific. The things on the left are, lets plant this stuff at SOD's house to frame em.

Maybe DC gave JH a copy of these when he went to his office before heading out. At some point, JH was outed by the DC/A/JB club - think it was over money and potentially other things. One of JH's depos is sealed. Maybe he testified to this list in his depo (chain of custody so to speak...from JB/KC, once they'd finished their licorice lace, while DC/LA went to the jail together). That...would be a problem! A big one (for KC's freedom, JB's career, the other's freedom, etc.) So it's go into "this has to be sealed, it's highly inflammatory, JH never received this from any of us, we wouldn't do that (BS!)" - bring up everything bad about JH that they can, claim he created the letter, is trying to frame KC...whatever. And, we have CA's recently released depo where the fact she wants to make sure it's on the record that she has never seen it, intrigues me as it's one of those hot points that make me wonder, hmmmm....are you so emotionally charged about this because it's something, I don't know...you're LYING about!

If we ask why is this DC guy even involved. He doesn't seem to be a genuinely good person to me. Ideas only - maybe he's been promised a seat on the Caylee money train or he's the funder/linked to the funder of the defense...he/they are agreeing to fund if they get the rights to profit HUGE after they get her off through a few magic tricks on the evidence/trail/etc.

If this makes no sense, forgive me - it's 3:11AM and I should be sleeping like KC was able to do in between visits with the police late 15th & early morn/afternoon of 16th even though her daughter was missing.
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I think after a while, and I am not saying this to be bombastic, but I think there was something giong on with he and CA. Even if only emotional, he would not talk to LE about the hour that he spent outside the Ritz hotel with her-LE questioned him about that because JH found them out there together. it just seems like it dwindled from DC being everyone's PI, to DC being CA's PI.
Maybe unrequited by CA or not, but I think DC turned into the white knight in his own mind there.
 
octobermoon said:
Does anyone else remember a pic of Casey with a very full backpack going into JB's office?
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Oh yeah, we talked about it a lot. Drove us crazy wondering what was in me. I think in addition to photos she also took in some duct tape.
 
Muzikman said:
Yes, the objection initially is to an exhibit (page 496, line 17). If it's just a photo, and it's already out there in the public, why object to it?

Is it maybe a photo that is NOT in the public domain, of an object or person that Baez doesn't want known? It's something that Cindy hasn't seen before.


Is it possible that there are things sealed (other than the remains photos and money issues) that we don't know about? Seems like a seal order from the judge would be in the case file.
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Hum, there was a lot of speculation about some very naughty pictures...could that be it? Could it have been a naughty video?
 
How about this scenario. Cindy, George AND Casey are all keeping their little binders. Into these binders they place ALL relevant case information and even record their LIES so they can keep them straight. When KC is arrested, her binder is left in the vehicle and when they get home Cindy takes it in. She later thinks that perhaps it is not good to have Casey's binder with HER notes and her bat phone, etc, IN the house, so she sends these to Lee's. He brings them back early in the month of December (since he was moving back in January 1) and puts them in the garage unbeknownst to Cindy or George. Then, Cindy and George travel out of town to do the LKL show and they BOTH leave their binders at the house as well...Then Caylee is found, and a search warrant is issued, and PAY DIRT, LE confiscates ALL the binders? and maybe KC's bat phone as well? possibly...Inside these binders they could have found any number of documents/agreements, with say ABC? for instance, showing where the moneys being paid came from and where they wound up in the end. They DID take notebooks, etc out of the house in that search, and it is doubtful if they were flying that they took their binders with them. George TELLS us his is missing...has anyone ever seen Cindy with hers again AFTER that search warrant? They could even have had photocopies of letters from KC? in those binders...so if LE did get those binders, it could have been the mother load of info for the State...
 
ThoughtElf said:
Late night brain-fart: Could part of the reason that the State has such a problem with JB's ethical behavior be that they recognize that it doesn't seem as if JB has really gotten through to Casey that she really is facing the DP?

I'm thinking this isn't the first, or the last, case they have or will face in which perps &/or their families will make blood money. Certainly, it is more heinous as Caylee was so little and innocent, but I can't help but wonder if part of the issue with JB isn't simply about how the defense is being funded, but that JB is encouraging it at the expense of Casey having a proper, realistic defense?

Sorry... I keep going back to the March 25 hearing and Ashton starting right off with what a minefield this case will become. He went on to say that they needed to know if the Defendant really understood. Almost as if they were afraid of something that could lead to appeal?

Certainly, the State might abhor the sale of photos, but I just have this nagging thought that it isn't just the $$$. Is it also the fact that Casey is funding a sub-par lead lawyer, in a less than stellar defense? Many people think she long since should have been guided to plea out. I happen to be in that camp.

Perhaps the state recognizes that there are general moral issues - if not legal ones - with the guidance Casey is getting that she might not realize exactly what she's sold her soul & pictures & videos for - and they do not want that to be cause for an appeal later.

Must go search out a transcript and review Ashton's exact words.

ETA: Added this screen shot snippet from the State's orig motion in regards to the conflict of interest. They had concerns that Casey was not being advised in her best interests, but in a manner to enhance value of the sales of her story (or artifacts like pictures.)

MOTION TO DETERMINE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND WAIVER
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0324/19002170.pdf
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BBM at the top of your post: I don't think the state started out with a personal ax to grind, although they are advocates for the opposing team (the people of Florida). Perhaps going into this, they apprised themselves of the fact that JB is a little green when it comes to lawyering.

That knocking him down the totem pole a bit, then add the fact that his motions are a hot mess.

Then add the fact that his maneuvers are barely above the board....the state's attorney has dealt with all sorts of defenders, and this one stuck out to them right away as being like a child you can't turn your back on, because the cookie jar is on the table in front of them. JB is not the first or last amateur they will deal with, but as fellow lawyers they have to take his ethics very seriously, it's not a pat on the back thing with attys, I believe they take ethics so seriously that they are willing to school newer attorneys the hard way, if necessary.

Put it this way, if JB were bad at motions and a little wet behind the ears on procedure, but as earnest as the day is long, the prosecution may be much more forgiving (though they would still demand corrections for the sake of legal wholeness.)

Doctors school interns by being as hard on them about mistakes as they possibly can-They will break med students down to the core. For the purpose of their study. But if an intern is knowingly doing something unethical or that could endanger patients, he is out.
 
Muzikman said:
BBM

I'm guessing that one of the times Casey was re-arrested, she had the notebook on her and it was confiscated?
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That would be so great wouldn't it?

Just Jayla said:
BBM at the top of your post: I don't think the state started out with a personal ax to grind, although they are advocates for the opposing team (the people of Florida). Perhaps going into this, they apprised themselves of the fact that JB is a little green when it comes to lawyering.

That knocking him down the totem pole a bit, then add the fact that his motions are a hot mess.

Then add the fact that his maneuvers are barely above the board....the state's attorney has dealt with all sorts of defenders, and this one stuck out to them right away as being like a child you can't turn your back on, because the cookie jar is on the table in front of them. JB is not the first or last amateur they will deal with, but as fellow lawyers they have to take his ethics very seriously, it's not a pat on the back thing with attys, I believe they take ethics so seriously that they are willing to school newer attorneys the hard way, if necessary.

Put it this way, if JB were bad at motions and a little wet behind the ears on procedure, but as earnest as the day is long, the prosecution may be much more forgiving (though they would still demand corrections for the sake of legal wholeness.)

Doctors school interns by being as hard on them about mistakes as they possibly can-They will break med students down to the core. For the purpose of their study. But if an intern is knowingly doing something unethical or that could endanger patients, he is out.
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I'll tell you this about young attorneys because we happen to know one who actually just graduated last year from Law School and is still awaiting his results from the Bar...He told my hubby that his young life was over, and hubby says why is that? And he says Well, I used to could you know, go out with my friends to a club or something and have some drinks, but that is all over now. He said it is looked down upon by the Bar for an attorney to in ANY way associate himself with ANYTHING that even APPEARS unethical in any form or fashion...

what did hubby respond? That sucks man!:dance:
 
lacey clementine said:
Yes, that he did. I also recall reading (here in other threads) about George allegedly vomiting when he saw the x-rated pix.
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From what I remember, GA went outside to vomit when they were done with the interview where they did discuss the pics-he told them he was going to be sick, but didn't do it right there in front of them-they said they were going to call LA to have him come down so they could both see new discovery (maybe hear the 9-1-1 tapes together), and GA asked them not to tell LA he was already there. Then, while they were waiting for LA, he went outside and upchucked.
 
magic-cat said:
How about this scenario. Cindy, George AND Casey are all keeping their little binders. Into these binders they place ALL relevant case information and even record their LIES so they can keep them straight. When KC is arrested, her binder is left in the vehicle and when they get home Cindy takes it in. She later thinks that perhaps it is not good to have Casey's binder with HER notes and her bat phone, etc, IN the house, so she sends these to Lee's. He brings them back early in the month of December (since he was moving back in January 1) and puts them in the garage unbeknownst to Cindy or George. Then, Cindy and George travel out of town to do the LKL show and they BOTH leave their binders at the house as well...Then Caylee is found, and a search warrant is issued, and PAY DIRT, LE confiscates ALL the binders? and maybe KC's bat phone as well? possibly...Inside these binders they could have found any number of documents/agreements, with say ABC? for instance, showing where the moneys being paid came from and where they wound up in the end. They DID take notebooks, etc out of the house in that search, and it is doubtful if they were flying that they took their binders with them. George TELLS us his is missing...has anyone ever seen Cindy with hers again AFTER that search warrant? They could even have had photocopies of letters from KC? in those binders...so if LE did get those binders, it could have been the mother load of info for the State...
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I like how you think magic-cat :crossfingers:
 
Just Jayla said:
Not if a third party has seen it-Then he would have to ask for it to be sealed for a reason other than privilege.
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I've come to the conclusion that exhibit 22 was never sealed. JB objected because he thought it should be sealed and the SA agreed to not talk about the list itself. This is what LDB said after JB objected: "There has been an objection posed as to an exhibit that we're not going to ask any more questions at this point pending resolution of that issue." If JB's list had been sealed previously that issue would have already been resolved and the SA would not have shown it to CA. The SA had already asked CA several questions about Exhibit 22 before JB objected. CA describes exhibit 22 as a photo with two papers on it, while JB is telling her to zip it. If exhibit 22 had been sealed wouldn't we have seen a motion? Maybe AL and JB decided it wasn't worth filing a motion to seal after CA had told about all the items KC took JB for DNA.

Thoughts?
 
Does anyone know who Jeff A (seven letters in last name - last letter is o. Hopefully, giving that will make it a bit easier since we can't put full names)? CA gave LA his number in a text message and I'm trying to figure out where he fits in all of this. I know he's supposed to be Casey's friend but that's it. He's not listed on the state's witness list, don't recall seeing any depos for him...
 
3doglady said:
I've come to the conclusion that exhibit 22 was never sealed. JB objected because he thought it should be sealed and the SA agreed to not talk about the list itself. This is what LDB said after JB objected: "There has been an objection posed as to an exhibit that we're not going to ask any more questions at this point pending resolution of that issue." If JB's list had been sealed previously that issue would have already been resolved and the SA would not have shown it to CA. The SA had already asked CA several questions about Exhibit 22 before JB objected. CA describes exhibit 22 as a photo with two papers on it, while JB is telling her to zip it. If exhibit 22 had been sealed wouldn't we have seen a motion? Maybe AL and JB decided it wasn't worth filing a motion to seal after CA had told about all the items KC took JB for DNA.

Thoughts?
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I agree, and I believe that LDB could have continued with her line of questioning, had she been as hard-headed as I felt like being when I read this. The state could have continued, and had plenty of time for the defense to go to the judge with the depos to have this portion sealed-as it is, it's been more than two months since they did these anyway. Plenty of time.....

If it was something CA was not supposed to see, because it has not met the proper discovery/release under Sunshine procedure benchmarks, that might have been another issue all together, though LE has shown CA things that were not yet released out of courtesy, so still not so horrible (CA might have to be gagged by JS in that case). But that doesn't seem to be the case anyway.

ETA: and the state was very aware of the nature of the part JB wanted sealed, so they knew the precision with which they would have to question her anyway.
 
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