Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[magic-cat]

Were traces of Chloroform found in the Gatorade bottle?

The mixture IN the Gatorade bottle WAS chloroform and cleaning solution according to yesterdays docs! And the syringe had traces of chloroform in it, along with testosterone! So...yeah.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Wouldn't it be a shocker if it was found out she had help from Cindy who is in the medical feild?

It would be interesting. As Cindy is so fond of pointing out (in order to implicate innocent friends) other people, which would include her, had access to the car.

 

[Friday]

I believe it was the duct tape on her skull also, but I also wonder how long it was before LE knew there were traces of chloroform in the syringe. MOO

I don't know, Panthera, I'm swimming as hard as I can just to stay afloat in this chemistry-laden topic. BTW, I'm so glad to see your Avi again.

 

[lizzysf]

My answers in red. Hope this helps some, sorry I don't have all the answers you need. I'll keep trying though.

Does anyone have any clue as to why Dr. Vass said he agreed that it was a mistake to let the Chloroform results out? I have always wondered why. (Sept 2008, before the body was discovered)

 

[Valhall]

Now I'm totally confused. Where was the chloroform detected then? :waitasec: (going back to re-reading the report)

In the bottle fluids (238.1). But not the syringe fluids (240.1.1).

 

[Valhall]

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21540506.pdf

pg 53

Q240.1.1 is the liquid in the syringe

THANK YOU! I've been reading and reading and couldn't find it in the 1700 pages.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I think the Gatorade bottle was just used as a container and was already empty of Gatorade. Maybe the day she was killed wasn't the first time Casey had done this and she'd "practiced" the maneuver ~ such as how to hold her down, and injecting into a vein? MOO

It is not possible to restrain a child by yourself and at the same time locate a vein and inject meds- can't be done. A toddler can be swaddled easily in a blanket, by one person and held so they cannot move a limb, but you cannot do that and at the same time find a tiny vein in the plump hands or arms of toddlers, and inject meds. Not possible. Any of these maneuvers require expertise that Casey just does not have. An intramuscular injection could be given, but again I think that is stretching it as far as what Casey would have the skills to do. And all of it is overkill to think of injecting,when the drug is most efficiently given by inhalation. Anyone could hold a cloth over a 2yr olds face and force them to breathe it in, they would lose consciousness rapidly.

 

[DotsEyes]

I have been out of the loop here, so give the latest to me please.

The syringe - chloroform in it or in the gatorade bottle? Testosterone in it or in the bottle?

Caylee's hair samples from the trunk - clonapin found?

BTW women get testosterone shots too, after menopause.

What else from the documents? I need the scoop, please.

 

[Wudge]

I read every single post you write on threads I participate in. Occassionally, you have challenged my thought processes. On the other hand, just as I might put some posters off when I am too vehement in my emotional response to Casey's crime, there are some posts when I almost forget the content, because frankly, I am thinking to myself, "Something really awful must have touched Wudge's life personally for such strong negative feelings to exist in regards to our justice system."

I like the prodding for evaluating evidence. I really do. I do sometimes get side-tracked by the feeling that some responses are driven by emotional bias, perhaps due to a personal experience that might cloud your objectivity, too? I fear that I can't alter your thought processes through some of the subjective opinion either.

Everyone's posts are illuminating, IMO.

We all live different lives. We all have different life experiences. More than a few times, I've personally witnessed the destructive power of a wrongful conviction. They simply crush a defendant or defendants and a family or families to the point of obliterating them.

Wrongful convictions come about in a lot of different ways. Sometimes an eyewitness makes an honest mistake. Sometimes, witnesses perjure themselves. Sometimes LE wrings a false confession out of some poor soul or souls -- they're often young or mentally a bit slow -- who cave in and give detectives what they wanted to hear. Sometimes (far, far too many times), prosecutors knowingly withhold exculpatory or exonerating evidence from the defense. Sometimes LE manufactures (plants) evidence. Sometimes (frequently) jailhouse snithches tell outlandish lies in a trade with the devil (D.A.'s office). Sometimes there was not even a crime; i.e., prosecutors simply guessed there was a crime and got a Grand Jury to agree. Sometimes juries make far more out of circumstantial evidence than comes close to existing -- see high profile cases. Sometimes jurors cave to community pressure. Sometimes the defense attorney is simply incompetent. Sometimes ... etc..

Regardless of why it came about, the effect of a wrongful conviction on the defendant or defendants and their family or families is ghastly. A jury is one of the last line of defense against a wrongful conviction, but few jurors see their role as a juror that way.

Some of the posts you have made have been truly superb, and I do not mean just this case. You have the capacity to be a critical thinker.

FWIW
FWIW

 

[ZsaZsa]

Thank you for the quick clarification! :blowkiss: But just so I'm clear on this for once and for all, there were no "rotting" food items in that bag whatsoever--Right? (Discounting some food wrappers, of course).

Correct, no rotting food. Just fluids/wax from a decomposing Caylee on paper towels.

 

[CBTampa]

We all live different lives. We all have different life experiences. More than a few times, I've personally witnessed the destructive power of a wrongful conviction. They simply crush a defendant or defendants and a family or families to the point of obliterating them.

Wrongful convictions come about in a lot of different ways. Sometimes an eyewitness makes an honest mistake. Sometimes, witnesses perjure themselves. Sometimes LE wrings a false confession out of some poor soul or souls -- they're often young or mentally a bit slow -- who cave in and give detectives what they wanted to hear. Sometimes (far, far too many times), prosecutors knowingly withhold exculpatory or exonerating evidence from the defense. Sometimes LE manufactures (plants) evidence. Sometimes (frequently) jailhouse snithches tell outlandish lies in a trade with the devil (D.A.'s office). Sometimes there was not even a crime; i.e., prosecutors simply guessed there was a crime and got a Grand Jury to agree. Sometimes juries make far more out of circumstantial evidence than comes close to existing -- see high profile cases. Sometimes jurors cave to community pressure. Sometimes the defense attorney is simply incompetent. Sometimes ... etc..

Regardless of why it came about, the effect of a wrongful conviction on the defendant or defendants and their family or families is ghastly. A jury is one of the last line of defense against a wrongful conviction, but few jurors see their role as a juror that way.

Some of the posts you have made have been truly superb, and I do not mean just this case. You have the capacity to be a critical thinker.

FWIW
FWIW

I think that you are on the wrong thread. IMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wouldn't it be a shocker if it was found out she had help from Cindy who is in the medical feild?

!!!!!! That didn't even cross my mind! Good point.

KC may also have been exposed to syringes and other medical supplies from a young age and may have picked up some second-hand knowledge. That and her natural bravado might mean that she would be more likely to attempt something like an injection without any formal education.

ETA: an IM or SC injection, she could - but I can't see her being able to hit a vein purposely and inject something

 

[panthera]

I don't know, Panthera, I'm swimming as hard as I can just to stay afloat in this chemistry-laden topic. BTW, I'm so glad to see your Avi again.

Nice to see you too!! I know exactly what you mean ~ I was never a science major!

 

[The World According]

Does she have a 100% conviction rate?
I mean why even go to trial?

Our justice system is an adversarial one by nature, so it will be full legal arguments. If there was only one way to skin a cat and a charge was sufficient to prove guilt, no one would have to go to trial. prosecutors could just declare them guilty as charged and have a judge sign off.

The point is, we can all have an idea about guilt or innocence but unless we look at all the evidence including what the defense may have to offer, where the prosecution is weak, and information that is contrary to popular opinion we can't really have the full picture. This is the beauty of our justice system.


So, while I agree that the SA feels that she has a strong case and she may very well have, much can happen before a verdict and anticipating those things is interesting to me anyway.

I'm with you on that, what I was trying to say is that the prosecutor was not wrong in charging the case this way, it is a matter of opinion, but clearly nothing unethical or out of bounds and if the judge lets the charges stand that does not make him weak or an arm of the prosecution. You are so right my friend about verdicts, OJ had his blood mixed with Ron and Nicole's and still we got the result we did. We wont know until the baliff announces it. I am sure with you on that! I should have said, my hope is justice will prevail. I'm sorry.

 

[fhc]

A carseat would be an effective restraint to some degree, whatever mode was used to administer the chloroform. Casey having a syringe and the mixture leaves no doubt this crime was premeditated. jmo

 

[RR0004]

I'm working on a theory...

• KC didn't make the chloroform - too hard & too lazy.
• One place she could have gotten it was the Tattoo shop. While chloroform is a banned substance in cleaning supplies, a quick Google search shows that it is used in tat shops
• Quick forum search and this was validated by a tat shop worker who posted here
• Ok - KC visited the tattoo parlour the week before she got the tattoo, didn't she? (It sounds as if she would drop in there fairly often - have to refresh my brain)
• Anyway, while researching chloroform online she notes use by tattoo artists OR she happens to see her buddy cleaning his equipment with it during a visit to the parlour
• Next visit brings a gatorade bottle with her --> Bathroom is likely near back of shop, where cleaning supplies are usually kept - inc. chloroform --> 'scuse please, I have to pee
• Swipes bottle of chloroform and tosses in backpack, or pours some in juice-bottle while in bathroom
• puts it in the trunk when she leaves
• as she is fiddling with it in the process of murdering Caylee, she spills some in the trunk. Perhaps be pouring from stolen bottle into smaller Gatorade bottle, or dousing the cloth (Mama Doll's clothes?) Many scenarios here - regardless she spilled some or it leaked.
• > CA got rid of the bigger bottle when she was cleaning out the trunk, in my little theory, btw... just sayin' <
• I still haven't seen anything definitive in regards to the amount of chloroform that was actually registering in the syringe, so I'm still on the fence about that (could be chloroform from the testing 'postive control solution' from what I am reading in the reports & results print-outs - won't know until someone figures out the amount registered)
• So at this point syringe is only part of this theory in that KC shoved the syringe in the bottle - perhaps she injected Caylee with testosterone and used Mama Doll's clothing to apply the chloroform, perhaps it was just an artifact lieing in her trunk from when she stole Tony's garbage. Lots of possibilities

Bottom-line - she might have stolen chloroform, quite possibly from the tattoo shop, and she spilled or it leaked in the trunk.

Thoughts?

Thanks...but what about a reaction due to it being placed in a plastic bottle? As chloroform has a short shelf life...could it be that it had lost it's potency...or could placing it in a plastic bottle cause a reaction and as a result some spilt?
BTW...you are a much better "googler" than I am. I tried goggling last night but got nowhere. Maybe after being online all day I hit a WS wall?

 

[Valhall]

Okay, guys, I've got a big problem with this. Yes, the overall summary report made in June states chloroform was detected in the syringe via the HS-GC/MSD (PI/EI) method. But no where else in these reports is that substantiated. The summary report for the HS-GC-MSD is on page 940 of the uber pdf and it does not list chloroform. Pages 1039 and 1153 are the GC-MS(PI/EI) summaries and it is not listed there.

Further to that, when you look at the individual test results for 240.1.1 - chloroform is not being designated.

Sorry, but something's just not right here.

 

[Valhall]

Follow up - copy/paste error or auto-complete if that summary is being created in a spreadsheet format.

I think it's a typo.

 

[RR0004]

In the bottle fluids (238.1). But not the syringe fluids (240.1.1).

So the syringe had the testosterone...or was it in the bottle as well? Sorry, don't mean to be lazy...just having system overload.

 

[Valhall]

So the syringe had the testosterone...or was it in the bottle as well? Sorry, don't mean to be lazy...just having system overload.

The syringe and the bottle both had the steroid stack in them. The syringe had ethanol. But it did not register for chloroform.