Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[RR0004]

Whiteangora, Jbean:

I'm with you guys. I'm very confused as to why this thread is so long and it's being stated that chloroform was definitely found in the syringe/bottle. I don't see that clearly stated anywhere in the docs. :waitasec:

Is it just that one news station that reported it? Did they maybe jump the gun?

I don't get it. Like I said, :waitasec:

NG went to town with it yesterday. She didn't just say "trace" evidence either...she said there was a whole lot. I just shook my head.

 

[nobull]

As much as I don't like Cindy, I honestly can't believe in any way that she would have participated in injecting Caylee with any substance, let alone chloroform.

I think it is more likely that the syringe was used by KC alone to store the chloroform prior to administering it per mouth/nose. The needle was used as a 'cap' (with the real cap over the needle) that simply screws on and off the syringe barrel to keep the substance from leaking.

I don't believe KC used the syringe to inject a screaming, flailing toddler.

 

[lisalei321]

I now know why I failed chemistry

I hope when this goes to trial, it's explained on a 1st grade level.

 

[RR0004]

It's but a 'murder' charge.

On a sidenote, here is Nancy Grace's lead-in last night. "Tonight, we learn found at the crime scene, along with little Caylee`s remains, syringes loaded with chloroform, the super-powerful knock-out drug, the same drug found in tot mom`s car trunk. With the deadly syringes, a Gatorade bottle also loaded with chloroform, the bombshell suggesting tot mom cooked up homemade chloroform, carried it in the Gatorade bottle, then injecting it directly into her 2-year-old girl`s body, bound with duct tape."

LE didn't find a single syringe. LE found syringes.

The lab didn't find traces of chloroform. The lab said the syringes were 'loaded' with chloroform.

LE didn't find duct tape only on Caylee's face. LE found that Caylee's body was 'bound' with duct tape.


(This, ladies and gentlemen, shows how jury pools get poisoned, knowingly.)

Do ya think that when picking the jury they may ask...are you a crimeentertainment aficionado? Hey, if they say they love NG, knock 'em off.

 

[lisalei321]

Amen Sister...........Been thinking the same thing!

:Welcome-12-june:

 

[2goldfish]

Yeah, it could. Or it could come from tap water that was the base fluid in the bottle. I have no idea about the "seal" question.

But I also know this - anabolic steroids are typically created using chloroform.

Citronella oil - and I'll kiss a working man's *advertiser censored** if that's not what is in there - is made using chloroform.

The only curious part of this whole gatorade bottle is the apparent citronella oil - considering George or somebody had been searching for ways to kill fleas around the same time as the chloroform searches.

Oh...and citronella oil kills toddlers. This 2 year old here was the son of a co-worker. His momma was busy fixing up the campground for his 2nd birthday and while she wasn't looking he drank some citronella oil - died 2 hours later.

http://oilcitronella.com/toddler-dies-after-drinking-citronella-torch-fuel

OOO. why do you think it was citronella oil? what have I missed?

....but this sucks about that little boy. I never have used or owned citronella in my life but I have a two year old boy and a vivid imagination and it hurts....the poor family.

 

[RR0004]

Yeah, it could. Or it could come from tap water that was the base fluid in the bottle. I have no idea about the "seal" question.

But I also know this - anabolic steroids are typically created using chloroform.

Citronella oil - and I'll kiss a working man's *advertiser censored** if that's not what is in there - is made using chloroform.

The only curious part of this whole gatorade bottle is the apparent citronella oil - considering George or somebody had been searching for ways to kill fleas around the same time as the chloroform searches.

Oh...and citronella oil kills toddlers. This 2 year old here was the son of a co-worker. His momma was busy fixing up the campground for his 2nd birthday and while she wasn't looking he drank some citronella oil - died 2 hours later.

http://oilcitronella.com/toddler-dies-after-drinking-citronella-torch-fuel

Thanks for filling me in about the oil. I saw it (oil) in the report somewhere and had no idea if it had been tested.

ETA: I am so sorry about the little boy.

 

[Jolynna]

I'm a lab tech and every 2 or 3 year old patient that I've either had to take a blood sample from or give an injection to had to be restrained by the parent, even the chronically ill children who are used to needles. It's also usually difficult to find a vein because they're normally chubby and their veins are small.

If KC did inject Caylee, maybe she temporarily knocked her out with chloroform vapours? To me, giving an IV injection to a child seems too advanced for KC. (She strikes me as a person who takes the easy way out of everything and wouldn't bother to learn something that's complicated).

There is a difference between how medical people inject and how a murderer would inject.

Someone bent on murder could sit on the child and pin an arm down under each legs. The murderer would be left with both hands free to tape, inject or whatever.

A murderer wouldn't be kindly looking for veins in advance or where it wouldn't hurt. A neck vein would do. Misses wouldn't matter either.

jmo

 

[spqr]

Just for information.

The chemical "chcl3" is chloroform.

So if anyone sees that symbol that is what it is.

 

[Valhall]

OOO. why do you think it was citronella oil? what have I missed?

....but this sucks about that little boy. I never have used or owned citronella in my life but I have a two year old boy and a vivid imagination and it hurts....the poor family.

Because the bottle and the syringe have the right constituents...

Limonene
Terpineol

 

[snow_walker]

chloroform.. I have been googling about it all day.. and I have reached some sort of critical mass overload. Apparently it 'welds' plastics together, like a super glue..if it were in the gatorade bottle, I would expect it to weld the lid to the bottle. if it were in the syringe, I would expect it to weld the moving parts together and make the syringe useless. I can't find an expert source to quote on this, but that seems to be the way it is commonly used by crafters.. to weld plastics together, permanently.

It is suppossed to be kept in a dark bottle to protect it from light as it disintegrates rapidly into some sort of 'phosgene'.. which I THINK is a poisionous gas..

Some input from the knowledgable sorts woud be appreciated.

 

[MD MOMMY]

What is it going to be like for the jurors? Here at WS we have the luxury of poring over the documents, going back and forth on them, access to the internet to look up resources, etc. and last, but certainly not least, the fantastic input from everyone at WS.

I find myself worried that IF this evidence is brought into play at the trial, jurors are going to be confused as all get out BEFORE the defense has their own experts refute the findings or starts claiming contamination, etc.

I know what made me decide she was guilty - and that was long before any reports came out. However, jurors are required to take all the evidence presented into consideration. I do not want to get into a discussion of jurors and evidence in general, please. What I would like to know is what everyone's opinion is about how this will play to a jury IF it is introduced.

Don't forget the jury is going to have the opportunity to listen to expert testimony from the person/s who compiled these reports. Unfortunately we are not afforded the opportunity at this time. I think once that happens the information will be way easier to digest. JMO.

 

[whiteangora]

Chloroform CAN be injected into a muscle. When it was used as an anesthetic, it was put in the vein. It would have been easy for KC to sit on Caylee and inject it into her bottom. I haven't formed an opinion on if she gave Caylee a shot or not though.

(I have my associates in lab technology and bachelors in biology in case anyone wants to know).

bbm

I am wondering how chloroform could be put in a vein since it causes serious burns if it even touches the skin. I always thought it was only used as an inhalant for anesthesia.

 

[starpatch]

I don't think it was injected into Caylee, I feel she probably used the syringe to draw up what she thought she needed from the container it was in, and put it into the Gatorade, then applied it to her face with a cloth, to be inhaled. There is NO way Casey could find a vein on a 2yr old- it calls for skills and patience that she doesn't have.

I bet you are right!

She prolly stole or found the syringe, and, that is where the male hormone came from

 

[ZsaZsa]

Chloroform CAN be injected into a muscle. When it was used as an anesthetic, it was put in the vein. It would have been easy for KC to sit on Caylee and inject it into her bottom. I haven't formed an opinion on if she gave Caylee a shot or not though.

(I have my associates in lab technology and bachelors in biology in case anyone wants to know).

Chloroform is administered as an inhaled vapor, not by IV route.

 

[ThoughtElf]

We all live different lives. We all have different life experiences. More than a few times, I've personally witnessed the destructive power of a wrongful conviction. They simply crush a defendant or defendants and a family or families to the point of obliterating them.

Wrongful convictions come about in a lot of different ways. Sometimes an eyewitness makes an honest mistake. Sometimes, witnesses perjure themselves. Sometimes LE wrings a false confession out of some poor soul or souls -- they're often young or mentally a bit slow -- who cave in and give detectives what they wanted to hear. Sometimes (far, far too many times), prosecutors knowingly withhold exculpatory or exonerating evidence from the defense. Sometimes LE manufactures (plants) evidence. Sometimes (frequently) jailhouse snithches tell outlandish lies in a trade with the devil (D.A.'s office). Sometimes there was not even a crime; i.e., prosecutors simply guessed there was a crime and got a Grand Jury to agree. Sometimes juries make far more out of circumstantial evidence than comes close to existing -- see high profile cases. Sometimes jurors cave to community pressure. Sometimes the defense attorney is simply incompetent. Sometimes ... etc..

Regardless of why it came about, the effect of a wrongful conviction on the defendant or defendants and their family or families is ghastly. A jury is one of the last line of defense against a wrongful conviction, but few jurors see their role as a juror that way.

Some of the posts you have made have been truly superb, and I do not mean just this case. You have the capacity to be a critical thinker.

FWIW
FWIW

Thank you. That was illuminating.

And, likewise on the BBM. Now that we both agree we have the capacity to be critical thinkers, if only we can reach our full potential.

 

[ZsaZsa]

There is a difference between how medical people inject and how a murderer would inject.

Someone bent on murder could sit on the child and pin an arm down under each legs. The murderer would be left with both hands free to tape, inject or whatever.

A murderer wouldn't be kindly looking for veins in advance or where it wouldn't hurt. A neck vein would do. Misses wouldn't matter either.

jmo

Why would she need to go to those extremes in order to administer it, when it can be breathed in and rapidly produces unconsciousness, and then death. All that would take would be a cloth saturated in it, held over the mouth and nose.

 

[Pattymarie]

Do we know where the syringe came from? Were there fingerprints on it? Had it been used before? This could explain why testosterone was in it, if she got the syringe from someone who had already used it. I bet all this is already known by LE.

 

[WillenFan21]

Maybe the blood on Caylee's blanket & clothes was due to Casey not injecting her the right way?

 

[RR0004]

I agree. There's no evidence that the exact same chemical mixture in the Gatorade bottle was also found in the trunk of Casey's car. Moreover, neither the syringe nor the chemicals founds contents of the Gatorade bottle bottle prove murder, much less a premeditated murder.

Furthermore, there's no evidence that places either the syringe or the bottle in Casey's hands, and the testosterone is evidence that points away from Casey.

When the necessary inculpatory evidence is missing or is not highly reliable, it would be junk logic to pretend that highly reliable premises could be formed from the evidence that could prove 1st degree murder at the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

But this thread is a discussion about the "possibilities" of what's been reported. I don't believe anyone has definitively formed an opinion about its connection to premeditation. I'm not sure why this is being brought up.