Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[shellsbells]

Unlinked to the death of Caylee or to Casey's person, this alleged blockbuster evidence could well be but true trash and should be considered such.

I really appreciate your reply, I'm just not sure what you mean by "true trash". Could you please expand upon that? Thanks, I'm a bit out of touch with terms :crazy:

 

[USARDOG]

Finding Caylee's blood or DNA on the syringe's needle would have qualified as a bombshell. Finding Casey's DNA or fingerprints on the syringe or Gatorade bottle would at least have been physical evidence that could have been used to place Casey at the location where Caylee's body was found.

However, as I read through the report, I couldn't locate any such evidence, which set my malarkey antenna to high buzz mode, yet again.

Unlinked to the death of Caylee or to Casey's person, this alleged blockbuster evidence could well be but true trash and should be considered such.

I see it as another piece of the puzzle. I would not expect to find dna or fingerprints on a syringe that has chloroform in the bottle with it. Chloroform is a very good cleaning agent and would disolve any oil for fingerprints, and my guess would be, also denature and destroy dna also.

However, if GA has a Testosterone perscription, it would be another strong link. Likely the lot numbers will come into play also. A few snow flakes don't make a driving hazard, however, when they pile up to the roof, you have a problem.

 

[Wudge]

I really appreciate your reply, I'm just not sure what you mean by "true trash". Could you please expand upon that? Thanks, I'm a bit out of touch with terms :crazy:

As in trash (garbage) that someone simply left where it was found and that is totally unconnected to this case.

HTH

 

[Valhall]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0911/06/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE
Chloroform Traces Found in Syringe Near Caylee`s Body
Aired November 6, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET

Above is the link to the "Nancy Grace" show that talked about chloroform
and a syringe. I believe she reports the facts of the case. If those facts are horrific and not in KC's favor, well then it is the nature of the beast
IMO

No, she didn't.

"syringes loaded with chloroform" - UNTRUE
"Gatorade bottle loaded with chloroform" - UNTRUE
"the bombshell suggesting tot mom cooked up homemade chloroform, carried it in the Gatorade bottle, then injecting it directly into her 2-year-old girl`s body, bound with duct tape." - Only in NG's mind.

 

[Wudge]

I see it as another piece of the puzzle. I would not expect to find dna or fingerprints on a syringe that has chloroform in the bottle with it. Chloroform is a very good cleaning agent and would disolve any oil for fingerprints, and my guess would be, also denature and destroy dna also.

However, if GA has a Testosterone perscription, it would be another strong link. Likely the lot numbers will come into play also. A few snow flakes don't make a driving hazard, however, when they pile up to the roof, you have a problem.

I agree that it's possible that the syringe or Gatorade bottle might yet somehow be physically connected to this case. However, until the day comes when a physical link is established, then based on what I know, it's anything but reliable inculpatory evidence.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Put another way

Based on the ratio of etoh to chloroform alone I would be more concerned about the effect of injecting the etoh on a toddler as anything

 

[butwhatif?]

No, she didn't.

"syringes loaded with chloroform" - UNTRUE
"Gatorade bottle loaded with chloroform" - UNTRUE
"the bombshell suggesting tot mom cooked up homemade chloroform, carried it in the Gatorade bottle, then injecting it directly into her 2-year-old girl`s body, bound with duct tape." - Only in NG's mind.

Exactly! NG (And other media outlets) have been sensationalizing everything in this case and others from the get-go. Which is why I read the docs , instead of taking her word for it.
She's kinda like KC- there's snippets of truth in there but it sure aint the whole truth- its always twisted to fit her agenda...RATINGS.

JMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

Possible Soddi. TL group was a new group in Kc's life. Dont know them. Dont know much about them.

But it was her dead child in her car and she is the one doing all the lying.
Most of the friends that I have read interviews from have been willing to undergo Polygraph examination, and appear to have been totally honest and forthcoming, which is more than can be said for Casey or any of her family.
Start with the obvious and not the unlikely. Did Casey drink blue Gatorade for example? You seem to have assumed she did not in order to look at others.

 

[shellsbells]

I agree that it's possible that the syringe or Gatorade bottle might yet somehow be physically connected to this case. However, until the day comes when a physical link is established, then based on what I know, it's anything but reliable inculpatory evidence.

Ah, ok, based upon your past few replies I think I get where you're coming from. I think my nature tends to come from the opposite end of yours (such a cynic I am), but I do think there is physical evidence that is known that we have yet to see and that may be what makes this exercise incredibly frustrating.

IMO, they need to just have a trial already and people can just say what they know... the way it is we have so much of this "Well, there's so much more that I can't say" that makes all this just.. difficult (and, might I add, sometimes infuriating, especially when the person the withheld statements were trying to save has been proven to be deceased)... JMO

 

[cecybeans]

Exactly! NG (And other media outlets) have been sensationalizing everything in this case and others from the get-go. Which is why I read the docs , instead of taking her word for it.
She's kinda like KC- there's snippets of truth in there but it sure aint the whole truth- its always twisted to fit her agenda...RATINGS.

JMO

That's the prudent thing to do. I think most of us on a forum like this are mature enough to take the media with a grain of salt. The media's reputation for being unbiased or accurate is just not very good with the general public. Most of us are pretty jaded about being told what to believe or think without substantive arguments or decent proof, certainly the types that are on here seem to be. Heavens, we've all grown up in a world full of advertising, if we are so undiscriminating we can't separate marketing tactics from fact, then we deserve to be labeled as sheep.

I started out with an impression of what may have happened, based on the level of hinkyness and mendacity I observed - an impression which has not changed, but I have been skeptical of certain elements or suppositions about particulars and willing to change my mind if I see overwhelming indications otherwise. So far I haven't. I don't feel as if I have to bend over backward to suspend my disbelief in order to preserve presumption of innocence because I am not on a jury (at which point I would, and would also be extremely upset at anyone who did not think I could separate my impressions from the media coverage with actual evidence admitted in court in determining innocence or guilt).

When contemplating KC's guilt versus anyone else's I am very careful to include what we know of her character and behavior so far, and we have a vast amount of information. The last thing I want to do is imitate the actions of her mother, who obviously created a child so spoiled and entitled that she actually gets angry when questioned about her responsibility for a "missing" child later found dead, is eager to assign blame to anyone else, and feels perfectly complacent about lying at every turn to weasel out of her accountability for Caylee both generally and specifically. In order for me to have interest in SODDI scenarios I need something as compelling as what I already know about KC for counterpoint, and I just don't see that as reasonable yet. I really think that it's dangerous to insist on presumption of innocence for the defendant to the point where we are willing to entertain presumption of guilt for everyone else.

(sorry, no more OT for cecy)

 

[carrie]

To me it's obvious there was not a dangerous level of chloroform in anything tested.

The FBI tech summarizes/concludes that there isn't. Whatever the details of the testing,how it was conducted, etc. the tester SUMMED UP by saying NO CHLOROFORM.

Add to that, some of our best sleuths (Bond, JWG, Vallhall) are all saying they see nothing to indicate a harmful level of chloroform in the test results.

Just because there was a trace of chloroform is irrelevant if it was so innocuous that the summary stated NO chloroform.

I really think we're ther_beatingA_Dead now guys.

 

[The World According]

That's the prudent thing to do. I think most of us on a forum like this are mature enough to take the media with a grain of salt. The media's reputation for being unbiased or accurate is just not very good with the general public. Most of us are pretty jaded about being told what to believe or think without substantive arguments or decent proof, certainly the types that are on here seem to be. Heavens, we've all grown up in a world full of advertising, if we are so undiscriminating we can't separate marketing tactics from fact, then we deserve to be labeled as sheep.

I started out with an impression of what may have happened, based on the level of hinkyness and mendacity I observed - an impression which has not changed, but I have been skeptical of certain elements or suppositions about particulars and willing to change my mind if I see overwhelming indications otherwise. So far I haven't. I don't feel as if I have to bend over backward to suspend my disbelief in order to preserve presumption of innocence because I am not on a jury (at which point I would, and would also be extremely upset at anyone who did not think I could separate my impressions from the media coverage with actual evidence admitted in court in determining innocence or guilt).

When contemplating KC's guilt versus anyone else's I am very careful to include what we know of her character and behavior so far, and we have a vast amount of information. The last thing I want to do is imitate the actions of her mother, who obviously created a child so spoiled and entitled that she actually gets angry when questioned about her responsibility for a "missing" child later found dead, is eager to assign blame to anyone else, and feels perfectly complacent about lying at every turn to weasel out of her accountability for Caylee both generally and specifically. In order for me to have interest in SODDI scenarios I need something as compelling as what I already know about KC for counterpoint, and I just don't see that as reasonable yet. I really think that it's dangerous to insist on presumption of innocence for the defendant to the point where we are willing to entertain presumption of guilt for everyone else.

(sorry, no more OT for cecy)

You are a bright , tough, smart lady. I have said it before, if I was ever in a fight, I'd sure want you on my side!!

 

[notthatsmart]

But it was her dead child in her car and she is the one doing all the lying.
Most of the friends that I have read interviews from have been willing to undergo Polygraph examination, and appear to have been totally honest and forthcoming, which is more than can be said for Casey or any of her family.
Start with the obvious and not the unlikely. Did Casey drink blue Gatorade for example? You seem to have assumed she did not in order to look at others.

I know this may be off topic even though it is tied to chloroform. I dont believe there was ever a human body in that trunk. Yes even in the face of tons of unacepted science evidence, I still dont believe it. Really doesn't make any sense either. I need things to make sense to me. This is only my opinon.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Why not?

This isn't really the thread to go into all this but the only thc that was found was on paper towels not anywhere near the gatorade bottle.

 

[carrie]

Put another way

Based on the ratio of etoh to chloroform alone I would be more concerned about the effect of injecting the etoh on a toddler as anything

Just a thought. I knew some heroin addicts. (I lived in a bad neighborhood what can I say, poverty ya know - lol -- and they weren't bad people, just had some bad problems) Anyway, I've seen them rinse their syringe in rubbing alcohol after they used it before they put it away (for re-use at a later time). Apparently, they thought it would "clean" the syringe or, at least, that it was better than nothing KWIM?

Anyway, I wondered if that could be the source of the etoh in the syringe, as well as the reason there is more alcohol than anything else.

What contradicts that is the fact that the syringe was wrapped in what appears to be the package (plastic bag} it came in. You wouldn't think if someone only used it once they'd feel the need to "clean" it in alcohol or anything else.

Anyway, FWIW, as you commented re: the alcohol.

 

[OneLostGrl]

That's the prudent thing to do. I think most of us on a forum like this are mature enough to take the media with a grain of salt. The media's reputation for being unbiased or accurate is just not very good with the general public. Most of us are pretty jaded about being told what to believe or think without substantive arguments or decent proof, certainly the types that are on here seem to be. Heavens, we've all grown up in a world full of advertising, if we are so undiscriminating we can't separate marketing tactics from fact, then we deserve to be labeled as sheep.

I started out with an impression of what may have happened, based on the level of hinkyness and mendacity I observed - an impression which has not changed, but I have been skeptical of certain elements or suppositions about particulars and willing to change my mind if I see overwhelming indications otherwise. So far I haven't. I don't feel as if I have to bend over backward to suspend my disbelief in order to preserve presumption of innocence because I am not on a jury (at which point I would, and would also be extremely upset at anyone who did not think I could separate my impressions from the media coverage with actual evidence admitted in court in determining innocence or guilt).

When contemplating KC's guilt versus anyone else's I am very careful to include what we know of her character and behavior so far, and we have a vast amount of information. The last thing I want to do is imitate the actions of her mother, who obviously created a child so spoiled and entitled that she actually gets angry when questioned about her responsibility for a "missing" child later found dead, is eager to assign blame to anyone else, and feels perfectly complacent about lying at every turn to weasel out of her accountability for Caylee both generally and specifically. In order for me to have interest in SODDI scenarios I need something as compelling as what I already know about KC for counterpoint, and I just don't see that as reasonable yet. I really think that it's dangerous to insist on presumption of innocence for the defendant to the point where we are willing to entertain presumption of guilt for everyone else.

(sorry, no more OT for cecy)

 

[christee]

If that syringe actually once contained liquid chloroform, the residual concentration found in the liquids (inside syringe and inside bottle) should be much higher I would think.

ppt = parts per trillion


"One part per trillion (1 ppt) is a proportion equivalent to one-twentieth of a drop of water diluted into a two-meter-deep, Olympic-size swimming pool."

I've been reading like a madwoman trying to catch up and finally came across HD's reference to an Olympic-sized swimming pool! This added to my knowledge of Phlebotomy makes me feel a bit more intelligent. :dance:

 

[shellsbells]

I know this may be off topic even though it is tied to chloroform. I dont believe there was ever a human body in that trunk. Yes even in the face of tons of unacepted science evidence, I still dont believe it. Really doesn't make any sense either. I need things to make sense to me. This is only my opinon.

I would love to hear your opinion at to how poor Caylee reached the point she did. Did another car carry her? Did someone carry her by hand? What, beside the trunk that we have that has decomposition in it, is the carrier for how she got from here to there? Honestly, my main interest is the truth, so whatever info or speculation you may have I am happy to hear.

 

[carrie]

This isn't really the thread to go into all this but the only thc that was found was on paper towels not anywhere near the gatorade bottle.

That doesn't mean they (TP rolls) weren't used for smoking some kind of dope.

We don't know whether they even tested for THC or any other drug or if THC or any other drug would show up if a TP role was used for smoking it. So we don't know if that's what the TP was used for or not.

Whether or not the two cardboard rolls were drug paraphernalia or not is relevant because if they are DP, then the syringe is less likely to be related to Caylee's death/possible murder, and more likely to be just random garbage.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yeah it kinda works both ways it seems. NG is pro prosecution and GR is pro defense, IMO. Then we have Baez et al, shouting off the roof tops erraneous information. It all just makes a tangled web..every last bit of it. Actually all of the above is what actually made me seek out Websleuths to begin with.:banghead:

ugh, I can't watch either one of 'em!