WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #16

[distracted]

Thanks, Jennifer, for trying to answer those questions. They are great questions, btw.

The fact that she didn't lose at least one of the shoes makes me think she went willingly; i.e. accepted a ride perhaps. If she had to run, she might have kicked them off to run faster or maybe lost one in a struggle.

I personally have thought from the beginning that she accepted a ride home from someone and was taken somewhere else.

The new cover of People makes me sad and happy - happy that these six cases are getting more exposure and sad that they are still missing. I've been following three of the six very closely from the beginning. I wish they would all come home.

 

[Salem]

Exciting!

I, for one, will buy this magazine. I never, ever buy People. I am just not into the "entertainment" scene. BUT I will buy this one. It has Amber and Adji and Lindsey and Brittney. Yea!!!!!!!!!

Salem

 

[fleececreations]

bumping for LIndsey. searches continue this weekend! sat and sunday searches! everyone is encouraged to show up! even if just for one search. we really need the extra sets of feet and eyes!

 

[distracted]

This is a long shot but I've been doing some thinking since my earlier post this evening. I think Lindsey "knew" who took her.

I get coffee every morning at the same place. I see the same people almost every day at the same time. I don't know any of their names but I have seen them every day for so long, I have begun to feel like I "know" them. I don't feel like they are strangers any more because I see them every day. I've been in their presence many times and nothing alarming has ever taken place so I let my guard down. See where I'm going here?

Lindsey was afraid of the dark and it was getting dark. She found herself walking home alone and was probably a little freaked out by that and then she saw a "familiar" face. If that familiar face offered her a ride home, I believe she would have taken it.

Now I wonder whose faces are familar to MK, her best friend, the person she walked up and down that street with day after day. Chances are the same face is familar to her.

 

[JenniferO]

Lindsey is talked about on Ron and Don tonight
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=12238

 

[TamgMit]

Why was MK and LB not allowed to have a sleepover? I've read two different reasons:

• KK and family had something planned for early next morning.
• KK's BF had to go to work early next day and wanted undisturbed sleep that evening.

Has anyone confirmed which, or is it a different reason?

When I first came to this forum Kara was a member and had typed out the reason's that she couldn't spend the night.

1. SW had the night off and didn't want any extra children.
2. KK wanted to also work on her writting that night
3. KK also had mentioned that she was planning on going shelling to get some shells to make some candles.

I Imagine in order to find these shells one would have to look on a beach or a rocky cove. I was wondering if it is possible that both LB and MK knew that KK was planning going shelling prior and was hoping that LB might be able to go if they had asked her. Wondered if that was some of the reasoning behind LB putting the bathing suit under her clothes in hopes to go to the beach with KK family, and do some shell collecting for the candles. Which sounds like a fun thing to do for kids that age.

This link is a link that momwhowrites ( KK) tells on how to make these candles. Not sure where you would go to find these shells but does sound like a fun adventure

http://www.ehow.com/how_5116221_make-own-seashell-candles.html

That same weekend down at Oceanshores was the Sand and Sawdust Festival June 26-27th.

http://www.americantowns.com/wa/oceanshores/events-archive-page8

http://www.americantowns.com/wa/oceanshores/events/five-star-dealerships-sand-and-sawdust-festival-1

Could this be one of the reasons why LB wore her bathing suit in hopes to go.

 

[TamgMit]

Sorry about the multiple post seemed like computer was froze but obviously it wasn't. I hope it is straightened out..

 

[ChuckMaureen]

When I first came to this forum Kara was a member and had typed out the reason's that she couldn't spend the night.

1. SW had the night off and didn't want any extra children.
2. KK wanted to also work on her writting that night
3. KK also had mentioned that she was planning on going shelling to get some shells to make some candles.

I Imagine in order to find these shells one would have to look on a beach or a rocky cove. I was wondering if it is possible that both LB and MK knew that KK was planning going shelling prior and was hoping that LB might be able to go if they had asked her. Wondered if that was some of the reasoning behind LB putting the bathing suit under her clothes in hopes to go to the beach with KK family, and do some shell collecting for the candles. Which sounds like a fun thing to do for kids that age.

This link is a link that momwhowrites ( KK) tells on how to make these candles. Not sure where you would go to find these shells but does sound like a fun adventure

http://www.ehow.com/how_5116221_make-own-seashell-candles.html

That same weekend down at Oceanshores was the Sand and Sawdust Festival June 26-27th.

http://www.americantowns.com/wa/oceanshores/events-archive-page8

http://www.americantowns.com/wa/oceanshores/events/five-star-dealerships-sand-and-sawdust-festival-1

Could this be one of the reasons why LB wore her bathing suit in hopes to go.

Thanks, Tamg.

I expect MK and LB did not know of KK's early-morning plans because MB is quoted as saying she expected LB, "to be home that evening to read Potter books with me [MB] and with her friend". MB also is quoted as saying they [LB and MK] were in a hurry to go to Mk's because it was getting late. I might have the wording flubbed, but the gist is accurate. It seems to me the kids went to the K residence to get MK's clothes / items to bring back to the B residence for sleep over and Potter book reading.

At what point did that change?

Recent reports indicate LB and MK asked KK / SW if LB could sleep over at the K residence. That does not make sense given the circumctances of that evening:

• MB is quoted as saying she expected LB and friend back that evening.
• MB has left the Potter book where she left it since LB disappeared.
• LB did not bring her cell phone (and charger) - minor, but a fact.
• LB did not bring a change of clothes - major.
• LB wore a bathing suit under her clothes, as opposed to underwear. I suspect a pile of laundry and LB had no 'clean' underwear so she wore the bikini? I've read MB was aware LB was wearing a bikini. Why? How many mothers know which underwear clothing their near-11 yr old child is wearing, unless there is a laundry situation?
• JB was to walk LB [and 'friend', see MB quotes, above] back to the B residence.

Factual, physical circumstances favor one scenario, while the remaining principals lip-service tell of another. Something smells.

KK, teary-eyed and sniffling stated, "If I had only said yes [to sleep over], Lindsey would be home right now". I truly can not imagine how they feel, but I do offer sympathy for MB and KK ... but also, why didn't their stories jibe in the early days ... and do their stories jibe today?

"Oh, kids .. always changing their mind." "Oh, mothers sometimes are not aware of what their child is up to." True and True.

But I do not believe either applies here.

The Potter book was set on the nightstand, ready for reading. JB was sent with the girls to accompany them on their journey, presumably for both directions.

The physical facts alone are enough to convince me MB was entirely expecting LB and JB to return home with a friend [MK], that evening.

Thought-flows follow, much conjecture, oh no, I'm at it again:crazy::

What of the '1st' witness who sent JB home? Was that 'witness' surprised to see JB walking with the girls towards MK's house? Was that witness supposed to ensure LB and MK were 'alone' before arriving at MK's? Was that witness the look-out for the driver in a pick-up vehicle?

Did LB and MK go to MK's house to pick up MK's clothes for sleep over at LB's? What occurred at the K residence to change that? Did KK nix an MK sleep over at LB's, to ensure LB would be alone on the walk home?

If LB and MK did ask if LB could sleep over with MK, was that after KK / SW told MK she could not return to LB's for sleep over?

It seems to me, if "SW had the night off and didn't want any extra children.", he'd be happy to let MK go to LB's for sleep over ... one less child [of their own]. If "KK wanted to also work on her writting [sic] that night", she'd also be glad to be minus one child [their own] for the evening. :banghead:

Did KK take a polygraph ... was she asked to do so? Did she offer?

Regardless whether or not stories were flubbed and filtered through media, the physical facts remain constant: LB was not carrying extra clothes. LB did not bring her cell phone and charger. JB accompanied the girls to MK's.

Or ... was LB carrying sleep over clothes, and LE is keeping that secret? If so, where are LB's clothes?

 

[Knox]

Hi ChuckMaureen ... I' m not one to argue about conflicting information on the facts in this case, mind boggling.

But after reading your post above, I wonder if the answer to the change in plans is simple; After the argument and Josh was sent packing, the girls decide that Josh will just continue to be a butthead and will probably bother them all night. Instead they decide to ask if Lindsey can stay the night at MK's.

 

[scandi]

Thanks, Tamg.

I expect MK and LB did not know of KK's early-morning plans because MB is quoted as saying she expected LB, "to be home that evening to read Potter books with me [MB] and with her friend". MB also is quoted as saying they [LB and MK] were in a hurry to go to Mk's because it was getting late. I might have the wording flubbed, but the gist is accurate. It seems to me the kids went to the K residence to get MK's clothes / items to bring back to the B residence for sleep over and Potter book reading.

At what point did that change?

Recent reports indicate LB and MK asked KK / SW if LB could sleep over at the K residence. That does not make sense given the circumctances of that evening:

• MB is quoted as saying she expected LB and friend back that evening.
• MB has left the Potter book where she left it since LB disappeared.
• LB did not bring her cell phone (and charger) - minor, but a fact.
• LB did not bring a change of clothes - major.
• LB wore a bathing suit under her clothes, as opposed to underwear. I suspect a pile of laundry and LB had no 'clean' underwear so she wore the bikini? I've read MB was aware LB was wearing a bikini. Why? How many mothers know which underwear clothing their near-11 yr old child is wearing, unless there is a laundry situation?
• JB was to walk LB [and 'friend', see MB quotes, above] back to the B residence.

Factual, physical circumstances favor one scenario, while the remaining principals lip-service tell of another. Something smells.

KK, teary-eyed and sniffling stated, "If I had only said yes [to sleep over], Lindsey would be home right now". I truly can not imagine how they feel, but I do offer sympathy for MB and KK ... but also, why didn't their stories jibe in the early days ... and do their stories jibe today?

"Oh, kids .. always changing their mind." "Oh, mothers sometimes are not aware of what their child is up to." True and True.

But I do not believe either applies here.

The Potter book was set on the nightstand, ready for reading. JB was sent with the girls to accompany them on their journey, presumably for both directions.

The physical facts alone are enough to convince me MB was entirely expecting LB and JB to return home with a friend [MK], that evening.

Thought-flows follow, much conjecture, oh no, I'm at it again:crazy::

What of the '1st' witness who sent JB home? Was that 'witness' surprised to see JB walking with the girls towards MK's house? Was that witness supposed to ensure LB and MK were 'alone' before arriving at MK's? Was that witness the look-out for the driver in a pick-up vehicle?

Did LB and MK go to MK's house to pick up MK's clothes for sleep over at LB's? What occurred at the K residence to change that? Did KK nix an MK sleep over at LB's, to ensure LB would be alone on the walk home?

If LB and MK did ask if LB could sleep over with MK, was that after KK / SW told MK she could not return to LB's for sleep over?

It seems to me, if "SW had the night off and didn't want any extra children.", he'd be happy to let MK go to LB's for sleep over ... one less child [of their own]. If "KK wanted to also work on her writting [sic] that night", she'd also be glad to be minus one child [their own] for the evening. :banghead:

Did KK take a polygraph ... was she asked to do so? Did she offer?

Regardless whether or not stories were flubbed and filtered through media, the physical facts remain constant: LB was not carrying extra clothes. LB did not bring her cell phone and charger. JB accompanied the girls to MK's.

Or ... was LB carrying sleep over clothes, and LE is keeping that secret? If so, where are LB's clothes?

Hi Chuck, The one thought I had reading your post is what Kara has said. It was that if Lindsey was going to spend the night at their house she didn't pack or bring other clothing for the night. Her daughter MK however would have packed several outfits if she were going to spend the night away from home.

I guess it is just a difference in children.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Hi ChuckMaureen ... I' m not one to argue about conflicting information on the facts in this case, mind boggling.

But after reading your post above, I wonder if the answer to the change in plans is simple; After the argument and Josh was sent packing, the girls decide that Josh will just continue to be a butthead and will probably bother them all night. Instead they decide to ask if Lindsey can stay the night at MK's.

Hi, Knox,

You offer an excellent, plausible point.

But, how does the bicycle fit in to that scene? IIRC, I read something about the bike being unusable at that point, that it was left at the Shell station.

Wild speculation follows:

I believe KK and SW misconstrued LB's and MK's request or have misrepresented the request in interviews. I've never seen MK quoted as stating what they planned for that evening. I've read quotes only from MB and KK.

I believe JB did not want to be there [babysit-walking the girls] in the first place, that MB made him walk with LB and MK. The other interesting factor is the bicycle. It is JB's bike so I suspect he wanted to ride alongside, instead of walk alongside the girls but somehow LB made the bike unusable by running the chain off the sprockets ... quite simple to accomplish.

Why did LB do that? Because JB did not want to walk them and LB suspected JB would ride away from them instead of ride alongside so she took control of the bike and made him walk with them, as MB instructed him.

So, even though he might have been a 'butthead' during the walk, I don't believe he would have bothered with them the rest of the evening and I don't believe LB and MK were worried about that since they would be in LB's or MB's room, reading Potter.

Or ... (even more wild speculation follows):

We *know* LB was 'happy that her brother is going to juvi tomorrow' [via her 06/17/2009 MySpace entry, 9 days previous to the 26th], so it stands to reason LB did not want JB walking with them and that was the gist of the argument along the route.

LB might have taken the bike with them, with the intent of enticing JB to ride it hoping he would ride away from them. But MB had instructed JB to walk with the girls and that's what he insisted on doing. That's why the bike was left at the Shell .. because JB declined to ride it and was not going to push it since LB was the one who brought it from the house in the first place.

Since the bike bribe did not work, the argument escalated along the way and became loud and annoying enough for JB to want to leave them or, as some reports indicate, annoyed a neighbor to the point where the neighbor intervened and separated the arguing siblings.

*** end of wild speculations.

We need to know the gist of the LB / JB 'argument', what really happened with the bicycle and other specifics from MK to fathom a true scenario of that scene.

We also need to know why the mothers (MB and KK) expected differing sleep over situations.

Why did MB and SW take a polygraph but not KK? KK was there with SW.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Hi Chuck, The one thought I had reading your post is what Kara has said. It was that if Lindsey was going to spend the night at their house she didn't pack or bring other clothing for the night. Her daughter MK however would have packed several outfits if she were going to spend the night away from home.

I guess it is just a difference in children.

Hi, scandi,

I can not imagine MB would allow her daughter to spend the night at a friends house without at least bringing a change of underwear. As I've stated previously, MB is quoted as having expected the sleep over to be at her house. MB's and KK's stories do not support each other's.

Why would KK want everyone to believe the sleep over was to be at her house?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

As time goes by, the more I believe:

LB initially might have be taken by someone she knew, but ended up with someone she never knew.

Who sold LB?

 

[Novice Seeker]

Hi ChuckMaureen ... I' m not one to argue about conflicting information on the facts in this case, mind boggling.

But after reading your post above, I wonder if the answer to the change in plans is simple; After the argument and Josh was sent packing, the girls decide that Josh will just continue to be a butthead and will probably bother them all night. Instead they decide to ask if Lindsey can stay the night at MK's.

Both Chuck and you have brought up some vital issues that could help in some way in solving this case.

My rambling thoughts:

When the kids left MB's home the understanding was that the girls were going to MK's to collect some clothes so that she could spend the night at the Baum's. MB sent JB with the girls to walk them to and from MK's house. However, along the way to the house JB and LB got into an argument and JB was sent home by the witness who texted MB to tell her what had happened. MB has stated that JB did arrive back to the house. So, if MB was concerned enough to send JB with the girls why wasn't she concerned for them walking back alone without JB?

If MB understood that the girls were simply going to MK's house to collect outfits and returning why did she not become concerned much sooner?

The bathing suit probably shouldn't be discounted with a theory that MB was aware. Do we know who provided this information to LE? IIRC didn't one of these parents share that the girls changed plans WHILE walking to MK's? Just to throw an idea out, perhaps the girls had already come up with a plan before they left MB's house, hence the bathing suit along with KK's statement that LB put her shoes back on.

Then there is always the time frame issue of these events. Everything so far has been inconsistent except the video store footage. Seems like LE would want to focus on this issue b/c it could help the investigation in several ways such as why do the stories continue to change about that evening and if a more accurate timeframe could be provided IMO think it would help in the investigation.

Novice Seeker

 

[Novice Seeker]

Hi Chuck, The one thought I had reading your post is what Kara has said. It was that if Lindsey was going to spend the night at their house she didn't pack or bring other clothing for the night. Her daughter MK however would have packed several outfits if she were going to spend the night away from home.

I guess it is just a difference in children.

Sometimes,IMO, we insert our rationales into explaining something that doesn't add up. My fear is that by doing this important pieces of a crime could be overlooked. Even I catch myself doing this at times but then I have to remind myself that I'm using my reasoning instead of that persons.

Novice Seeker

 

[seventeenseconds]

Both Chuck and you have brought up some vital issues that could help in some way in solving this case.

My rambling thoughts:

When the kids left MB's home the understanding was that the girls were going to MK's to collect some clothes so that she could spend the night at the Baum's. MB sent JB with the girls to walk them to and from MK's house. However, along the way to the house JB and LB got into an argument and JB was sent home by the witness who texted MB to tell her what had happened. MB has stated that JB did arrive back to the house. So, if MB was concerned enough to send JB with the girls why wasn't she concerned for them walking back alone without JB?

If MB understood that the girls were simply going to MK's house to collect outfits and returning why did she not become concerned much sooner?

The bathing suit probably shouldn't be discounted with a theory that MB was aware. Do we know who provided this information to LE? IIRC didn't one of these parents share that the girls changed plans WHILE walking to MK's? Just to throw an idea out, perhaps the girls had already come up with a plan before they left MB's house, hence the bathing suit along with KK's statement that LB put her shoes back on.

Then there is always the time frame issue of these events. Everything so far has been inconsistent except the video store footage. Seems like LE would want to focus on this issue b/c it could help the investigation in several ways such as why do the stories continue to change about that evening and if a more accurate timeframe could be provided IMO think it would help in the investigation.

Novice Seeker

ok..just woke up...no coffee yet so i hope this makes sense...i thought MBs cellphone was dead...so how did she get the call/text about the fight? or am i just confused...

 

[ChuckMaureen]

ok..just woke up...no coffee yet so i hope this makes sense...i thought MBs cellphone was dead...so how did she get the call/text about the fight? or am i just confused...

Is it confirmed that MB stated she received a call / text msg from a friend who was informing her that s/he sent JB home, or was is it the friend whom is quoted as saying such?

Again, stray thoughts pop up in my feeble brain ....

• Were MB's, KK's and SW's cell / phone records reviewed?
• Were local pay phones records reviewed?
• Were MB's, KK's and SW's(?) computers also confiscated / searched by LE?
• Are MB's, KK's and SW's bank accounts being monitored?

MB has stated on multiple occassons [quoted in print and she on video], "in my heart I know she's still alive".

I despise typing this but ... is it possible for a mother to sell off a child and feel comfortable with it as long as [she was told] the child would not be harmed? Well, given todays news of the missing NC 5 yr old's mother being arrested for child trafficking, we know it is possible.

What about a family friend selling the others child? Is it possible? Why not.

Just asking! At this point, can we truly rule out either scenario?

I can not locate info on this: did KK take a polygraph?

 

[seventeenseconds]

Is it confirmed that MB stated she received a call / text msg from a friend who was informing her that s/he sent JB home, or was is it the friend whom is quoted as saying such?

Again, stray thoughts pop up in my feeble brain ....

• Were MB's, KK's and SW's cell / phone records reviewed?
• Were local pay phones records reviewed?
• Were MB's, KK's and SW's(?) computers also confiscated / searched by LE?
• Are MB's, KK's and SW's bank accounts being monitored?

MB has stated on multiple occassons [quoted in print and she on video], "in my heart I know she's still alive".

I despise typing this but ... is it possible for a mother to sell off a child and feel comfortable with it as long as [she was told] the child would not be harmed? Well, given todays news of the missing NC 5 yr old's mother being arrested for child trafficking, we know it is possible.

What about a family friend selling the others child? Is it possible? Why not.

Just asking! At this point, can we truly rule out either scenario?

I can not locate info on this: did KK take a polygraph?

havent heard about the NC story....can human trafficking really be here...in our own back yard???!!!!???? the fact that Lindsey is on the Interpol site makes me think that LE or FBI know something and i pray she is still okay....

 

[Novice Seeker]

Hmm, trying to keep up with you guys even without your morning coffee. As to the polygraph KK's boyfriend SB took a polygraph but she hasn't. Wonder why SB took a polygraph, even if he volunteered?

The information regarding the texting to MB came from the witness. You may have MB confused with KK who for some unknown reason stresses that her phone only had 1 bar left and had been charging.

ITA about the Interpool watch but in order for the LE to have added her name to this particular site wouldn't they need to have some information about Lindsey's crime to even think about posting her information on that site? But, how could they do that yet no evidence or suspects who were involved in this crime? Does that make sense?

Novice Seeker

 

[seventeenseconds]

well there was a human trafficing bust here in seattle i guess a week or 2 ago and i am wondering if maybe there is something Bigger and more sinister going on here...they have or had the head computer forensic guy from seattle on the case and my God...every where we start to sleuth we get RSO coming up...this is just too weird...IDK