Andrea Lyon New DP Atty

[sleutherontheside]

So...I am about a third of the way through listening to the other AL podcast located at the link I provided above. Here is is again...
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss48591.xml

This one discussed the Public Defender Toolbox. In the first 21 minutes there are 2 statements she makes that I find very noteworthy.

1st. I can tell autopsy jokes.
2nd A friend told me I have a unique ability that I can bond with psychopaths.

Additionally she discusses the fact that "Juries are not like us....many of them are Republicans."

When discussing case loads and PD being overwhelmed, she tells an example of walking into court Monday morning and meeting new clients after their arraignment. She said...."When you see that new client walk in with a thick file and a big cross around his neck you know it's going to be a bad day."


She also expresses her opinion that the Freedom of Information Act is the best thing that ever happened. Gave a website to generate a letter to request info. Hmmmmmmmmmmm yet the Sunshine Laws are presenting an issue for her???? Can't have it both ways dear.

I have also noted that AL has no issue with using profanity in her lectures AT ALL. Off to listen to more......this is so very interesting.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Not done with this podcast yet but after the 43 minute mark she shares this juicy info. Discussing PD clients.

"I have clients I don’t care for." You know the ones .. we do our best but we aren’t that sad when the case is closed.

" I hate innocent clients." She goes on to say that people don’t understand that. She says she worries more for those she feel sympathy for. That this is hard to explain to some people. She said you know you are going to lose, and you can make it better for them if they are guilty but if they are innocent and you lose you make it worse.


She also discusses an issue with paid experts. That you should always follow the money. She found that one particular phychiatrist voted 100% of the time with the side that paid him. She started sending him $100 to do a brief consult on her cases in order that he would not be called for the Prosecution.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Not done with this podcast yet but after the 43 minute mark she shares this juicy info. Discussing PD clients.

"I have clients I don’t care for." You know the ones .. we do our best but we aren’t that sad when the case is closed.

" I hate innocent clients." She goes on to say that people don’t understand that. She says she worries more for those she feel sympathy for. That this is hard to explain to some people. She said you know you are going to lose, and you can make it better for them if they are guilty but if they are innocent and you lose you make it worse.


She also discusses an issue with paid experts. That you should always follow the money. She found that one particular phychiatrist voted 100% of the time with the side that paid him. She started sending him $100 to do a brief consult on her cases in order that he would not be called for the Prosecution.

Good Lord, she actually stated this????

Do you know, is it usually standard practice during a trial to solicit information from experts as to whether or not they are being paid, or gaining financially for their services (for the benefit of juries)?

 

[Kentjbkent]

So...I am about a third of the way through listening to the other AL podcast located at the link I provided above. Here is is again...
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss48591.xml

This one discussed the Public Defender Toolbox. In the first 21 minutes there are 2 statements she makes that I find very noteworthy.

1st. I can tell autopsy jokes.

2nd A friend told me I have a unique ability that I can bond with psychopaths.

Additionally she discusses the fact that "Juries are not like us....many of them are Republicans."

When discussing case loads and PD being overwhelmed, she tells an example of walking into court Monday morning and meeting new clients after their arraignment. She said...."When you see that new client walk in with a thick file and a big cross around his neck you know it's going to be a bad day."


She also expresses her opinion that the Freedom of Information Act is the best thing that ever happened. Gave a website to generate a letter to request info. Hmmmmmmmmmmm yet the Sunshine Laws are presenting an issue for her???? Can't have it both ways dear.

I have also noted that AL has no issue with using profanity in her lectures AT ALL. Off to listen to more......this is so very interesting.

So far, that is the most interesting statement I have heard....another point to ponder while researching this psychopath stuff.....what type of people (characteristically) tend to have the ability to connect and bond with psych/sociopaths.....interesting...

 

[sleutherontheside]

[/B]

Good Lord, she actually stated this????

Do you know, is it usually standard practice during a trial to solicit information from experts as to whether or not they are being paid, or gaining financially for their services (for the benefit of juries)?

BBM

YES SHE DID. With a statement that noteworthy...I would not risk misquoting. I highly suggest listening to the podcasts. I am gathering my notes now and will post other notable phrases. I don't need any copyright issues so I included the link and encourage people to listen for themselves.

 

[sleutherontheside]

She discusses that you can have fun getting stories from other witnesses. It is good because they are so persuasive. They make the story come to life and have dual purpose. They communicate to the jury that you care enough to go and investigate. AND it keeps cops from lying so much. Goes on to say "Cops must take courses." They don’t speak English they speak cop. They consider their lying is for greater good.

If you as the attorney know the scene, can describe it, that tells them (cops)not to "wander off reservation" because you "know what is out there".

She also said to never leave your client alone at the table during sidebar because 'they don't know how to act". She said you can't worry about being in sidebar and turn around to see your client making gang signs. Have someone sit with them. If they keep their eyes down, they look guilty, if they stare, they look dangerous.

Family behavior is important too. Make sure you have "mom" on your side because if she isn't, you aren't going to be able to get your client to do what you want them to do like taking a deal or what you think they need to do.

The room needs to be balanced. Once she had a courtroom where she was filing motions and the Prosecution side was filled with a bunch of cops. She said "they may as well have had kill him stamped on their forehead". So she called the clients family and told them to get the neighborhood down to the courthouse to make it look like they had support. "If other people don't like your client, the jury won't either".

 

[mitzi]

So...I am about a third of the way through listening to the other AL podcast located at the link I provided above. Here is is again...
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss48591.xml

This one discussed the Public Defender Toolbox. In the first 21 minutes there are 2 statements she makes that I find very noteworthy.

1st. I can tell autopsy jokes.
2nd A friend told me I have a unique ability that I can bond with psychopaths.

Additionally she discusses the fact that "Juries are not like us....many of them are Republicans."

When discussing case loads and PD being overwhelmed, she tells an example of walking into court Monday morning and meeting new clients after their arraignment. She said...."When you see that new client walk in with a thick file and a big cross around his neck you know it's going to be a bad day."


She also expresses her opinion that the Freedom of Information Act is the best thing that ever happened. Gave a website to generate a letter to request info. Hmmmmmmmmmmm yet the Sunshine Laws are presenting an issue for her???? Can't have it both ways dear.

I have also noted that AL has no issue with using profanity in her lectures AT ALL. Off to listen to more......this is so very interesting.

I don't think I have the stomach to listen to AL, but I so appreciate your synopsis! :blowkiss:

 

[mitzi]

Not done with this podcast yet but after the 43 minute mark she shares this juicy info. Discussing PD clients.

"I have clients I don’t care for." You know the ones .. we do our best but we aren’t that sad when the case is closed.

" I hate innocent clients." She goes on to say that people don’t understand that. She says she worries more for those she feel sympathy for. That this is hard to explain to some people. She said you know you are going to lose, and you can make it better for them if they are guilty but if they are innocent and you lose you make it worse.


She also discusses an issue with paid experts. That you should always follow the money. She found that one particular phychiatrist voted 100% of the time with the side that paid him. She started sending him $100 to do a brief consult on her cases in order that he would not be called for the Prosecution.

Do you think that the State has accessed these speeches by AL in order to learn more about the way she works?...and if not, maybe they should be enlightened to where to find them. *wink*

 

[knt]

AL: "A friend told me I have a unique ability that I can bond with psychopaths."

Wow, i would much appreciate Lillian Glass's analysis on AL!! My first reaction is that psychopaths bond with psychopaths. CA and KC are a good example of that. I'll reserve my own observations of AL and hope LG will soon provide her
expert analysis.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Do you think that the State has accessed these speeches by AL in order to learn more about the way she works?...and if not, maybe they should be enlightened to where to find them. *wink*

These podcasts are on a site that requires no membership or passwords. I simply back doored my way into finding it because it was not listed on any searches under her name. I really don't think the SA would be interested in any of them because in all honesty while some may find the content offensive, it isn't illegal and both sides have tricks and stratagies. This podcast was posted by another party and she is not the only one in the list. If she doesn't want her lectures out there, she should opt out of them being posted. I posted the links to avoid copyright issues as well as because people will take away from them different things. It was just the noteworthy quotes that I found to be of interest. I did not obtain these in a fraudulent manner, I did not trick anyone into giving them to me, and I did not hack any sites, I simply knew how to look. Her son is an investigator as is her partner in this case Mort S. Maybe they should have done their own homework.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Additional notes on AL podcast.

Motions practice:
She advises using a motions index…
"most of time state doesn’t answer so I have to ask judge to order that the state answer it"

The index is nice to hand judge and prosecutor. It is intimidating at 3 pages long. Maybe you will get that deal in order to avoid litigating motion.

Use a worksheet
Ask yourself...What do I wish wasn’t there..is there a confession? Let's write a motion. Fingerprints? Write a motion. Shae advises writing a motion for everything.

She states that there are many different triers of fact..juror…judge…You know when it's time to cross…and the judge is like ok you can cross examine, while he is rolling his eyes and shrugging shoulders. He is telling jury not to listen to you.

Clerks try your case too. Baliff….

There are always people listening…There is always someone in the restroom that hears you complaining about the guy coming out of lockup with the bible.

Victims family are trier of fact…..the more damage done…less reasonable doubt.


I want to note that AL in these 2 lectures has made very specific references to clients that wear a big cross around the neck or carry a bible out of lockup. Wonder what her thoughts on KC's bible would be???

 

[sleutherontheside]

Andrea's strategy or plan is becoming more transparent by the day. Let's look at a blog entry by Terence L (KC's first DP qualified attorney) discussing postpartum depression as a mitigation factor in filicide.....http://www.deathpenaltyblog.com/tag/add-new-tag/ see the
April 17th entry.....
Let's recall statements made to LE about KC mentioning needing "mental health" help. Let's recall comments made about her having a miscarriage with BS and her "freak out" at a party because she ran into him. Let's look at the very specific references made to her promiscuity, bi-polar behavior, and poor judgement. Let's look at Sarah Buckley, one of KC's visitors that has written articles regarding parenting issues that include discussion about PPD........ If nothing else....the defense it setting up the mitigation strategy to argue PPD.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Andrea's strategy or plan is becoming more transparent by the day. Let's look at a blog entry by Terence L (KC's first DP qualified attorney) discussing postpartum depression as a mitigation factor in filicide.....http://www.deathpenaltyblog.com/tag/add-new-tag/ see the
April 17th entry.....
Let's recall statements made to LE about KC mentioning needing "mental health" help. Let's recall comments made about her having a miscarriage with BS and her "freak out" at a party because she ran into him. Let's look at the very specific references made to her promiscuity, bi-polar behavior, and poor judgement. Let's look at Sarah Buckley, one of KC's visitors that has written articles regarding parenting issues that include discussion about PPD........ If nothing else....the defense it setting up the mitigation strategy to argue PPD.

Who is this attorney Sarah Buckley? Can you lead me to these articles? I searched and couldn't find any information about her. Thanks

 

[Ada]

Oh, I misunderstood, I am so sorry.

The story, in the beginning of this case, is that a woman in jail gave KC Baez's phone number. Then it got all mixed up that KC went to High School with JB's daughter, which could be true. Then, the mix goes on. May never know the truth on that one though.

It has always puzzled me that KC might have gotten JB's name from someone in jail. Wouldn't you rather get the name of an attorney from someone who is not in jail? lol

 

[Just Jayla]

She discusses that you can have fun getting stories from other witnesses. It is good because they are so persuasive. They make the story come to life and have dual purpose. They communicate to the jury that you care enough to go and investigate. AND it keeps cops from lying so much. Goes on to say "Cops must take courses." They don’t speak English they speak cop. They consider their lying is for greater good.

If you as the attorney know the scene, can describe it, that tells them (cops)not to "wander off reservation" because you "know what is out there".

She also said to never leave your client alone at the table during sidebar because 'they don't know how to act". She said you can't worry about being in sidebar and turn around to see your client making gang signs. Have someone sit with them. If they keep their eyes down, they look guilty, if they stare, they look dangerous.

Family behavior is important too. Make sure you have "mom" on your side because if she isn't, you aren't going to be able to get your client to do what you want them to do like taking a deal or what you think they need to do.

The room needs to be balanced. Once she had a courtroom where she was filing motions and the Prosecution side was filled with a bunch of cops. She said "they may as well have had kill him stamped on their forehead". So she called the clients family and told them to get the neighborhood down to the courthouse to make it look like they had support. "If other people don't like your client, the jury won't either".

These examples reach the real heart of the matter-the reason a few of us commented that we do not like the fact that these attorneys step outside their role as an advocate for the application of the law to their clients, and step into a role of spin doctor. That's what publicists and agents do, and they don't need a law degree to do it.
These "tips for winning" lead down a dangerous road, and again the Van Dam attorney comes to mind. When it comes from either side, it is such a distortion of our legal system, IMO.

 

[elementary]

AL: "A friend told me I have a unique ability that I can bond with psychopaths."

Wow, i would much appreciate Lillian Glass's analysis on AL!! My first reaction is that psychopaths bond with psychopaths. CA and KC are a good example of that. I'll reserve my own observations of AL and hope LG will soon provide her
expert analysis.

I am not aware that psychopaths bond. It's simply not possible. But they can align with each other if they find the circumstances mutually beneficial. There is a preponderance of psychopathic types in law, according to statistics (and no, I don't have any on hand, but that is what I learned in my abnormal psych course), so such speculation is not totally out of line, IMO.

I don't know if AL is a psychopathic type, but in that remark, it shows once again how special and full of herself she is. She describes herself as a "genius" who also has an preternatural ability to "bond" with psychopaths. Hmmm.... Let the evidence pile up and speak for itself.

 

[elementary]

Not done with this podcast yet but after the 43 minute mark she shares this juicy info. Discussing PD clients.

"I have clients I don’t care for." You know the ones .. we do our best but we aren’t that sad when the case is closed.

" I hate innocent clients." She goes on to say that people don’t understand that. She says she worries more for those she feel sympathy for. That this is hard to explain to some people. She said you know you are going to lose, and you can make it better for them if they are guilty but if they are innocent and you lose you make it worse.


She also discusses an issue with paid experts. That you should always follow the money. She found that one particular phychiatrist voted 100% of the time with the side that paid him. She started sending him $100 to do a brief consult on her cases in order that he would not be called for the Prosecution.

To be fair to her, I think she is saying it's harder to deal with a loss when someone is innocent than when they are guilty.

If a guilty person is found guilty she knows she has a shot at mitigating the sentence. But if the person is innocent and is found guilty, nothing she does will really make it better for them.

Hence she prefers a guilty client becasue it makes it easier on her.

 

[21merc7]

I am not aware that psychopaths bond. It's simply not possible. But they can align with each other if they find the circumstances mutually beneficial. There is a preponderance of psychopathic types in law, according to statistics (and no, I don't have any on hand, but that is what I learned in my abnormal psych course), so such speculation is not totally out of line, IMO.

I don't know if AL is a psychopathic type, but in that remark, it shows once again how special and full of herself she is. She describes herself as a "genius" who also has an preternatural ability to "bond" with psychopaths. Hmmm.... Let the evidence pile up and speak for itself.

I'm a bit off color myself and attract equally likely people. That said, true psychopaths cannot mentally or emotionally bond. It just is not there as you have stated, in fact, they would just compete with each other.

 

[LambChop]

I'm a bit off color myself and attract equally likely people. That said, true psychopaths cannot mentally or emotionally bond. It just is not there as you have stated, in fact, they would just compete with each other.

Pretty much like CA and KC?

 

[21merc7]

Pretty much like CA and KC?

Lol! Yeah, but I don't think either is a psychopath. (Not a professional psychologist, but still.) They are just classic narcissists, feed off of each other. Who knows?