Dogs

[jjenny]

I agree, just trying to keep an open mind, boys and hormones do crazy things to girls that age. I just can't think of any other possible reason that she would have been at that library.

And maybe she never was there.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Somehow I missed a bunch of posts. I can think of a dozen dogs certified just in one county in Nor Cal and that's just in one small section in the north of the state. (HRD/Cadaver dogs)

As for trailing dogs, there are no shortage of them out here either, no possible reason to ship them in cross country other than the fact that I don't know anyone who would go out on a 6 month old trail.

Wow, seriously- not to derail again- but we need to live where you do! We only have 2 HRD/Disaster dogs certified out of......a whole bunch of dogs. Certified in trailing, only have 9. Maybe because of the location we just have more K9s? but still- I'm impressed.

But I do know people who would go out on an old trail.

 

[sarx]

jjenny, I agree, I don't think she was ever at the library, but to me it seems it has to be either one or the other. Either she was at the library (almost certainly on her own accord) or she was never there. I just don't see any other possibilities.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

No, mission ready Cadaver certified with the California Office of Emergency Service (OES, the government). About as official as you can get here.

Ok, must be the state-to-state thing. Our's are FEMA.

 

[jjenny]

jjenny, I agree, I don't think she was ever at the library, but to me it seems it has to be either one or the other. Either she was at the library (almost certainly on her own accord) or she was never there. I just don't see any other possibilities.

What evidence do we have that she ever were in the library? As far as I understand, the dogs supposedly pointed that location out. But like we already discussed, how convincing is the "dog evidence?"
Personally, I am not at all convinced.

 

[sarx]

We also have ICF, CARDA, and DART that are all used inter-agency.

 

[Ghostwheel]

And maybe she never was there.

Or she was there prior to going missing, and the dogs picked up on that. If they could sniff her out after 6 months, maybe they could do the same thing a year later. So several months prior to her going missing, she had gone to the Pala Library...for that video and book...that wasn't available anywhere else....

Sorry, I just had to say it. :innocent:

 

[sarx]

That is the only evidence, the dogs. No one remembers seeing her there (though how many of us actually pay attention to who is in the library with us). The reason I am talking about it is that Nancy Grace on her show is making a big fuss about it and people are really jumping on the information. Personally I think it is bad info. but this is turning into a big deal because the dogs were reported as taking the handlers to Pala and now she was found 5 miles from there. Once again, 3-5 miles is a LONG way. Even if LE had followed up on that info I don't see how they would have made the jump from the library to some hillside that wasn't visible 3-5 miles away. I don't blame LE for this part at all.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

We also have ICF, CARDA, and DART that are all used inter-agency.

Here we are FEMA, USPCA, IPWDA, CPS, SARTECH. I think some different names for certain things, same for others. We don't have a DART unit here but we do north of here.

 

[Lipin One]

Would the dogs point if property (like a bookbag) that used to belong to the victim was brought into the library?

 

[jjenny]

Or she was there prior to going missing, and the dogs picked up on that. If they could sniff her out after 6 months, maybe they could do the same thing a year later. So several months prior to her going missing, she had gone to the Pala Library...for that video and book...that wasn't available anywhere else....

Sorry, I just had to say it. :innocent:

Well I am by no means an expert on dogs, I am pretty sure dogs have to be brought in as soon as possible to get the results.
Here we are talking about months passing between Amber's going missing and the dogs supposedly tracking her scent.
I find the whole idea that these dogs tracked her so much later, rather peculiar.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Would the dogs point if property (like a bookbag) that used to belong to the victim was brought into the library?

It depends upon what type of dog is being used, and for what purpose. For example- if a book bag was found in a library by an HRD dog, it may indicate there was an aged human scent on it. The same book bag found by a trailing dog would likely indicate a live scent. But ALL dogs have to go through trailing training first, for SAR work- before they 'specialize.'

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Well I am by no means an expert on dogs, I am pretty sure dogs have to be brought in as soon as possible to get the results.
Here we are talking about months passing between Amber's going missing and the dogs supposedly tracking her scent.
I find the whole idea that these dogs tracked her so much later, rather peculiar.

Seems like there is not a lot of clarity on the dog thing. Maybe as more results are released we'll get more clarity.

 

[concentric]

Today, 01:15 AM
sarx
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 257

Do we know that she hadn't initially gone off voluntarily?
-------------------------------------

We don't know anything but it has been reported she had never missed school.
With her going to buy her lamb that day I find it highly unlikely she would have decided to miss the school all of the sudden.

-------------------------------------
Unless, the boy seen walking with her told her the lambs were out that way in the Pala area and she could go with him to pick one out?

(I know, big leap)

or, as I just posted in another thread: someone offered to show her a wolf?

(I'm going to justify my questioning by saying outrageous criminal actions, call for outrageous questions, IMO)

 

[sarx]

Good morning!
Justtoseeyousmile (hey, can I abbreviate that somehow, that's a lot of letters! lol), just catching up. In your area ALL dogs have to be trained in trailing first before specializing, is that correct? That might explain why we have so many more dogs out on the West Coast. We do have dogs that are cross trained but it isn't a requirement a lot of ours are specialized only.

I think that finding the scent 6 months later is highly suspect, I do not see it possible that she was there earlier than that and they were finding that scent. Plus, unless she used a false name there were no records of her checking out anything. There are a lot of libraries closer than the 20 miles away that the Pala one is.

I am also holding the door open that she may have initially gone off with someone voluntarily but if I recall the lamb was being purchased from someone she knew, so I don't think that would have been the lure.

 

[dsntslp]

Apologies for the off topic but this is important to me.
When you guys say something is "on the dog thread" do you mean a dog thread specific to Amber's case or is there a general "SAR dog" thread here at WS that discusses SAR dogs? If so would someone be so kind as to provide a link. I have just begun to train dogs (HRD and tracking) and would love to read/participate on a general SAR dog thread if there is one here. I could sure use and would appreciate the input of experienced handlers. TIA

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I read a news article yesterday wherein the dogs' handlers stated the dogs tracked her scent approximately 3 miles up Pala-Temecula road (no link now but will look for it) and they could find no "exit" for her so they assumed she was deceased. In that story a fire chief stated no way could a search dog do that 6 months after the fact. But the fact is the handlers said the dogs could do it and I don't think there's a doubt that they did it.

 

[sarx]

dsntslp-If you are talking about my post on the other thread in regards to Nancy Grace, this was the thread I was referring to. I don't know about a general thread, but I'm new to the boards so there may very well be one. There have been several past threads about dogs specific to cases.

 

[marieblasdell]

Also important is that sun and heat are the enemy and will greatly shorten the life of the trail.

Let's contemplate for a moment the hideous heat wave that we'd had by last August. If there's any truth at all to this story of the dogs leading searchers to Pala six months after Amber disappeared, I think we're seeing a combination of coincidence and the 'Clever Hans' phenomenon, where the dogs react to subliminal cues from the dog handlers, who recognize the Pala road as a plausible dumping site, react to the library because the family told them how much Amber loved books, etc....

 

[coastal]

jjenny, I agree, I don't think she was ever at the library, but to me it seems it has to be either one or the other. Either she was at the library (almost certainly on her own accord) or she was never there. I just don't see any other possibilities.

He checks out a book on wolves, and the "Friday the 13th" movie. He sees Amber, says, check this out, let's go skip school. She goes, and Amber ends up in Pala, dead.
He returns the book, and the movie.

Who knew what Amber loved?