120 TES Search Areas "Cleared". Yes or No ?

Do you feel all search areas of Interest are really "Cleared" ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 47 12.3%
  • No

    Votes: 291 76.0%
  • I Don't Know

    Votes: 45 11.7%

  • Total voters
    383
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arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,,,,

cleared as best as we could with VOLUNTEERS ?

cleared completely ?

cleared completely 100 percent guaranteed to the 9th degree?



people searched willingly, did the best they could with what they had AND
no worries, the defense will sputter till the cows come home.. who cares?

what are we supposed to do ? forget all the other few hundred things KC did or said that were totally bogus ??
bold faced lies


myself, im not worried one bit take your pick
she will get either life in prison or the death penalty
if a jury hears this case


easy as pie, stick a fork in her, she is done

course, once the defense sees all of the evidence against her they will try and cut a deal...........not for any other reason other than the killer doesnt want to look bad.. because its all coming out in the trial


its all coming out :woohoo:
 
I think this particular line of evidence is going to be a SLAM DUNK for the prosecution if you think of each sides argument as resting on a scale.

The defense argument is going to be that TM and his searchers were in this area but never found the body (although as far as we know there is not ONE bit of evidence that ANY searcher has stated that they personally searched the EXACT spot where Caylee body was found and found nothing) so it HAD to be placed after KC was jailed.

The prosecution argument is going to be TONS of forensic evidence involving SIX MONTHS of plant growth, insect growth, etc.

Speculation vs Forensics.....PROSECUTION WINS THIS ONE!

I think the prosecution would have a much more difficult time pinpointing time of placement of the body if we were talking about a time frame of a week or two between Caylee's death and discovery of her body, but SIX MONTHS...forensics will prove this one.
 
I've read the first page and pages 5 & 6 of this thread. The poll question "Do you feel all search areas of interest are(were) really cleared?" - I did not vote.

(Maybe my post doesn't belong on this thread, mods if you feel it doesn't then I am sorry for creating work for you if you have to move it.)

I am not sure if the poll question is about the number of areas that TM said were cleared or if it's a general question. But my thought is maybe we are expecting more than we should from searchers who are human and are out there giving of themselves because they are good people, in conditions that from what I heard were almost too much to bear.

It's been so many months since I've seen TM on TV answering questions so I will not claim to quote him. What I do remember, either reading or hearing is that TES will come and search only if the family requests them to help. I remember hearing that someone urged CA to phone TES. And that she finally acquiesced, IMO once she realized that it would look very bad for her to refuse and also b/c she found out they also look for the living. She probably thought she could order TM to search where she wanted him to only. We all remember the different versions of events that floated around regarding Caylee's "kidnapping" in the first few weeks & months? from the A camp.

Can you imagine how confused TM was after speaking with LE, CA & GA, KC?(maybe?), LA, LP, FBI, etc. LE/FBI at that time probably told TM that they believed Caylee to be deceased(dog hits, trunk death smell, all lies from KC, no nanny, on and on and on) but that they hadn't completely ruled out the slim possibility of her still being alive. Then we have the A parents. From what we know now, telling TM they believed Caylee to be alive and wanted him searching for her where an alive person would be, not in woods, fields, swamps, etc. I also distinctly remember CA saying on NG that she did not want people to show up to help TES search as they were looking for a dead Caylee! We've all heard that CA refused to give TES an article of clothing to help the dogs locate Caylee. I don't know if TM ever actually spoke to KC, but I do remember TM saying that while he was in the A home, speaking with CA, that KC would every now and again come into the LR and listen, with a nonchalant, detached attitude. Since TM has worked for years and spoken with hundreds of relatives (mothers, fathers, siblings, GM's & GFs, etc.--I am sure TM is familiar with the most common emotions of a relative who is worried sick about their missing loved one(invisinannynapped according to KC). He himself has endured this nightmare of a missing young daughter, later to be found murdered. He would be able to recognize correctly the bottomless anxiety, distress and suffering of any person experiencing this. I believe he listened to all sides, used his years of experience in searching, working with LE, sympathizing/working with families of the missing and he made a judgement call on who he believed was most credible, most reasonable and who was most likely telling the truth. LE.

I believe the search for Caylee, for TES & TM personally, was unlike anything he had come across before. I believe TM, like most of us, found CA to be an unnecessary hindrance to his work. Causing him to fall into her trap of responding to her nonsense. I don't think he had ever come across a person like her and being a good and decent man tried to deal with her in an honorable way. But treating CA in an honorable way IMO gets you nowhere but deeper into her BS game. I believe if TES handled this search in a scattered or disordered way, I think that was CA's goal. To rattle TM, to make having to deal with CA become so unbearable that he'd want to get as far away from her (and Caylee's search) as fast as he could. Let's face it, she attacked him. Why would she do that? That is my question. I'll keep my answer to myself for now.

But back to the poll question. I looked up missing deceased persons who were searched for extensively but missed, only to be found later in the very areas they were originally searched for. It happens. People can search an area and miss a deceased body. I think one article I read said LE did ground, helicopter, sonar, infrared and could not find this person. He was later found in the same area. It is obviously possible to have the best, or just common every day folks who care and want to help, search an area and miss a body. I don't think, even if JB is able to claim that the remains area was searched and no body was found(don't think he can prove it myself), that this will be any problem for the prosecution. Bodies have been missed before and the prosecution will be able to prove that. moo

Here are a couple articles I found, I only looked for a few, I'm sure there are many many more out there.

http://blogs.app.com/saywhat/2009/04/07/body-discovered-hanging-in-tree-after-29-years/

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/identity_of_body_found_on_mass.html

http://www.dlncoalition.org/missing_two_crow2.htm
 
I've read the first page and pages 5 & 6 of this thread. The poll question "Do you feel all search areas of interest are(were) really cleared?" - I did not vote.

(Maybe my post doesn't belong on this thread, mods if you feel it doesn't then I am sorry for creating work for you if you have to move it.)

I am not sure if the poll question is about the number of areas that TM said were cleared or if it's a general question. But my thought is maybe we are expecting more than we should from searchers who are human and are out there giving of themselves because they are good people, in conditions that from what I heard were almost too much to bear.

It's been so many months since I've seen TM on TV answering questions so I will not claim to quote him. What I do remember, either reading or hearing is that TES will come and search only if the family requests them to help. I remember hearing that someone urged CA to phone TES. And that she finally acquiesced, IMO once she realized that it would look very bad for her to refuse and also b/c she found out they also look for the living. She probably thought she could order TM to search where she wanted him to only. We all remember the different versions of events that floated around regarding Caylee's "kidnapping" in the first few weeks & months? from the A camp.

Can you imagine how confused TM was after speaking with LE, CA & GA, KC?(maybe?), LA, LP, FBI, etc. LE/FBI at that time probably told TM that they believed Caylee to be deceased(dog hits, trunk death smell, all lies from KC, no nanny, on and on and on) but that they hadn't completely ruled out the slim possibility of her still being alive. Then we have the A parents. From what we know now, telling TM they believed Caylee to be alive and wanted him searching for her where an alive person would be, not in woods, fields, swamps, etc. I also distinctly remember CA saying on NG that she did not want people to show up to help TES search as they were looking for a dead Caylee! We've all heard that CA refused to give TES an article of clothing to help the dogs locate Caylee. I don't know if TM ever actually spoke to KC, but I do remember TM saying that while he was in the A home, speaking with CA, that KC would every now and again come into the LR and listen, with a nonchalant, detached attitude. Since TM has worked for years and spoken with hundreds of relatives (mothers, fathers, siblings, GM's & GFs, etc.--I am sure TM is familiar with the most common emotions of a relative who is worried sick about their missing loved one(invisinannynapped according to KC). He himself has endured this nightmare of a missing young daughter, later to be found murdered. He would be able to recognize correctly the bottomless anxiety, distress and suffering of any person experiencing this. I believe he listened to all sides, used his years of experience in searching, working with LE, sympathizing/working with families of the missing and he made a judgement call on who he believed was most credible, most reasonable and who was most likely telling the truth. LE.

I believe the search for Caylee, for TES & TM personally, was unlike anything he had come across before. I believe TM, like most of us, found CA to be an unnecessary hindrance to his work. Causing him to fall into her trap of responding to her nonsense. I don't think he had ever come across a person like her and being a good and decent man tried to deal with her in an honorable way. But treating CA in an honorable way IMO gets you nowhere but deeper into her BS game. I believe if TES handled this search in a scattered or disordered way, I think that was CA's goal. To rattle TM, to make having to deal with CA become so unbearable that he'd want to get as far away from her (and Caylee's search) as fast as he could. Let's face it, she attacked him. Why would she do that? That is my question. I'll keep my answer to myself for now.

But back to the poll question. I looked up missing deceased persons who were searched for extensively but missed, only to be found later in the very areas they were originally searched for. It happens. People can search an area and miss a deceased body. I think one article I read said LE did ground, helicopter, sonar, infrared and could not find this person. He was later found in the same area. It is obviously possible to have the best, or just common every day folks who care and want to help, search an area and miss a body. I don't think, even if JB is able to claim that the remains area was searched and no body was found(don't think he can prove it myself), that this will be any problem for the prosecution. Bodies have been missed before and the prosecution will be able to prove that. moo

Here are a couple articles I found, I only looked for a few, I'm sure there are many many more out there.

http://blogs.app.com/saywhat/2009/04/07/body-discovered-hanging-in-tree-after-29-years/

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/identity_of_body_found_on_mass.html

http://www.dlncoalition.org/missing_two_crow2.htm

I wouldn't say that we are expecting to much. But to go into a courtroom and try to say that because the searchers 'cleared' an area, that means there was no way a body could be there... Now that would be too much.

Now that I have had a chance to think about it, I don't think a jury will buy this one. It's to illogical. IT's like saying the table is clear. Those woods are so thick, etc. I think they can be shown how that is an illogical expectation.
 
I almost wonder if this is the guy Baez is looking for to testify on Casey's behalf...sorry if someone else posted this

http://www.wesh.com/video/18255174/index.html

Thanks a ton for finding that video!

The guy talks about searching back there. He talks about the fence, and lots of woods. Said he had been there twice.

But he is NOT surprised she is found there. JB might wanta think about that.

I'm just guessing, buy what he says, it sounds like they followed the fence row and went into the woods that way. It would be interesting to find out exactly what those searchers did.

I recall them saying somewhere that in areas of water, they tried to go around it, and still search the areas the best they could.

This guy didn't talk about the area directly beside the road at all. Wasn't suprised she was found there. Yet claims to have searched the area and knows the area well.

It's possible that he just wanted his few minutes on TV, and was stating the obvious. OUCH if that was the case. Cause if his name doesn't show up as 1 of the 32, there will be a search for him.
 
I almost wonder if this is the guy Baez is looking for to testify on Casey's behalf...sorry if someone else posted this

http://www.wesh.com/video/18255174/index.html

Great find!!

This man did say that it is dense, thick woods, that you can't see much. I wonder if dogs did search that area and how close does a dog have to be to "hit" on a body. Also wonder what state Caylee was in when the dogs were there. or for that matter when this guy was there. Was she already being scattered? Oh that makes me sick to think about. MOO

I just thought about the dogs NG had on to demonstrate. They were close to the "thing", had a clear short path to run to the sofa, and only a pillow hiding it. Remember? Searching real areas would be much different.
 
Thanks a ton for finding that video!

The guy talks about searching back there. He talks about the fence, and lots of woods. Said he had been there twice.

But he is NOT surprised she is found there. JB might wanta think about that.

I'm just guessing, buy what he says, it sounds like they followed the fence row and went into the woods that way. It would be interesting to find out exactly what those searchers did.

I recall them saying somewhere that in areas of water, they tried to go around it, and still search the areas the best they could.

This guy didn't talk about the area directly beside the road at all. Wasn't suprised she was found there. Yet claims to have searched the area and knows the area well.

It's possible that he just wanted his few minutes on TV, and was stating the obvious. OUCH if that was the case. Cause if his name doesn't show up as 1 of the 32, there will be a search for him.

NM is right about it having a chilling effect on future searches. Can you imagine how JB will want to questioned this guy, want all the names of anybody else who he knows searched there and then he'll dig to see if any of these people have anything in their past---God help them. It could be twisted, and they could find themselves a target of the defense. moo
 
Great find!!

This man did say that it is dense, thick woods, that you can't see much. I wonder if dogs did search that area and how close does a dog have to be to "hit" on a body. Also wonder what state Caylee was in when the dogs were there. or for that matter when this guy was there. Was she already being scattered? Oh that makes me sick to think about. MOO

I just thought about the dogs NG had on to demonstrate. They were close to the "thing", had a clear short path to run to the sofa, and only a pillow hiding it. Remember? Searching real areas would be much different.

She had been gone for over 4 weeks. Experts say that in that situation she would bones.

From my understanding of the dogs, different dogs are trained to find different types of death. I don't think they are all trained to find bones. But of the decaying. Also, there are special trained water search dogs.

With the dog searches being an issue, I guess we will have to know more about exactly what they are trained to smell.. and which dogs searched that area.

But I thought the handlers said that area was to wet to release the dogs. If she was in a water area, they would have had to have water search dogs. And I don't recall they brought such a searcher out. And never went back after the water went down.
 
NM is right about it having a chilling effect on future searches. Can you imagine how JB will want to questioned this guy, want all the names of anybody else who he knows searched there and then he'll dig to see if any of these people have anything in their past---God help them. It could be twisted, and they could find themselves a target of the defense. moo

Well, I would consider that reasonable that he would want to talk to this guy. He just might not like what he hears.

I think most searchers realize that if they find something, they will be questioned about it. It's those that didn't find anything that shouldn't have to worry about people like JB.
 
I would think confusion aids the prosecution, not the defense. I'm thinking the defense wants to portray the search as complete and thorough so they can say that Caylee was not there, but was placed there later.

I should think the defense would say TM was the best searcher in the world, and the search team was full of fisrt class searchers... And they searhed that very area and didn't find her... Why? Because SHE WASN'T THERE!!.

If they say the search team was the blind leading the blind, the jury might then say, well, she could have easily been there, and that bunch of idiots missed her...
 
bump for discussion because i don't remember this.
 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGXwao-5Gtk[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9KQCdDis-Y[/ame]
Drew explains that he was never in the exact area where Caylee was found.
 
How could TES even verify which searchers searched what, if they decided to go off the proverbial grid and do their own searching? Say I sign up for TES and I search where I am supposed to...but later I get a bee in my bonnet and I decide to do some informal searching of my own...how would anyone know what I was up to unless I told either LE or the defense? They wouldn't. Which is why my neighbors have no idea what I found in their backyard...lol (that last bit was a joke).
 
I believe if TES said they cleared an area...they cleared an area.

PS- I hope I'm understanding this right. lol
 
I think drew should be deposed. IMO

I am behind the curve I guess on this, who is drew? Eep lightening in my area...I think I now understand what a small hurricane must feel like here on the south side. Yikes.
 
LB, I make a point to read your posts because I think you think before you post. I am aware of the ignore option but have not chosen to use it. This is America and if the moderators can take it , and the taxpayers of FL want to pay for it (a deposition of drew, already discredited), then I must take it too. I just choose not to respond to others who have an agenda.

On Target - The search area was cleared as far as it could be. There was high water.
 
LB, I make a point to read your posts because I think you think before you post. I am aware of the ignore option but have not chosen to use it. This is America and if the moderators can take it , and the taxpayers of FL want to pay for it (a deposition of drew, already discredited), then I must take it too. I just choose not to respond to others who have an agenda.

On Target - The search area was cleared as far as it could be. There was high water.

I guess I am at least as far behind the curve as LittleBitty. I had never heard of this Drew guy at all and had never seen the video until today. I didn't know he had been discredited. He sounded reasonable in the interview.

Who was interviewing him? I looked at the youtube page but it doesn't indicate if this was from a news station or police or who was asking the questions.

Is there a master list of characters somewhere on here? I would appreciate it if someone could point me towards it so that I can avoid making myself look more foolish.

ON TOPIC - Do we know what the 120 areas are that TES said were cleared?

If I am too far behind in this case and it would be better for me not to participate in the discussions, please let me know and I will just read.
 
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