2010.07.14 Investigators re-interviewing people who saw Kyron; Kyron seen w/out Terri

[TxLady2]

Not specific to you, Smooth, just using your quote as a launch pad! Here's the video link in which Kaine and Desiree confirm the baby was with Terri at the school. It's right at the launch of the video, so you don't even need to watch the full 12 minutes: http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

They seem so sure that I believe this item has been confirmed to them by LE. No hesitation, IMO. Here's my little transcript of the relevant bit.

Interviewer: Kaine, I have to ask, K***, on the morning that Kyron went missing, was she at home, or was she at daycare, or where was she?

Kaine: She was with Terri. (Kaine nods, Desiree nods.)

Interviewer: With Terri. Was she with Terri at the school? Or----

Kaine: Yes. (Kaine nods, Desiree nods.)

No disrespect intended, but how would Desiree know, since she was over 4 hours away? Kaine may believe she had the baby because he hasn't been told any different, and Terri may have hinted that she had to take her with her, but it puzzles me why the baby has never been mentioned in any of these reports of people who saw her and Kyron at the school.
Unless Kaine was there, he cannot say 100% that the baby was with her. And since they've both said Terri lies, why is it not possible that they simply don't know for sure? Unless of course, someone who was there told him personally, which is possible, I guess.

 

[BeanE]

No disrespect intended, but how would Desiree know, since she was over 4 hours away? Kaine may believe she had the baby because he hasn't been told any different, and Terri may have hinted that she had to take her with her, but it puzzles me why the baby has never been mentioned in any of these reports of people who saw her and Kyron at the school.
Unless Kaine was there, he cannot say 100% that the baby was with her. And since they've both said Terri lies, why is it not possible that they simply don't know for sure? Unless of course, someone who was there told him personally, which is possible, I guess.

Kaine seems very sure she had the baby with her. Have you watched the video where he talks about it?

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think we know for sure about the backpack and jacket...that has never been confirmed, as far as I know, and was only stated by Terri's mom in a very early article, so I am sure her source was Terri.

We may find out soon that all of these second interviews rule Terri out entirely, who knows? Or we may later learn that many of these eyewitnesses were wrong about times, descriptions of clothing, all kinds of things. I've seen some ridiculously bad eyewitness examples in some crimes. And working will children of various ages who want to be helpful is never going to make the investigators' job easier.

But from the way the morning sounds to have gone down I am still leaning toward an unplanned act, if Terri is involved. Perhaps she and Kyron had a verbal encounter of some sort and she decided to take him home and something went wrong after that. I don't think it takes anyone particularly smart to be lucky enough to find a place, as yet undisclosed, to place a very small body. We saw that with Caylee, who was not found for several months, and we know that little Haleigh is likely never to be found and the IQ's of those suspected in each of those cases is hardly off the charts.

By doing this round of interviews I have to believe LE is narrowing things down to a very tight timeframe. And I can't help but recall that soon after D&K made their first round of appearances pointing the finger at Terri, MCSO quickly put out a statement indicating that they did not provide info to back up whatever it was they were saying (can't recall wording.) Maybe Terri is not even their primary POI right now. I've never believed that LE has been huddling with D&K behind the scenes, or manipulating what they are saying.

 

[GrainneDhu]

If nothing else, a smart teacher would realize there is no child present associated with that backpack, and regardless of anything else, should cause the teacher to wonder why the child brought a backpack if the parent was going to take the child to the Dr in the first place. But why this child wasn't followed up on, why no one called to verify the parent had the child......that remains the mystery to me.

I think it depends on the layout of the classroom.

In my nephews' school, the classrooms all had a row of hooks and cubbies at the back of the room. Children were expected to remove anything they needed from their backpacks to place in their desks, then leave the jackets and backpacks at the back of the room.

I think it would be easy to overlook there being, say, 25 jackets in the back of the room when there were only 24 kids present that day. Same with backpacks. At the end of the day, when all the other jackets and backpacks were gone, then it would be obvious there were extras. But until then? They'd be hiding in plain sight.

 

[TxLady2]

My problem with this is she would have to be very smart and with all the other things she has done that were not very smart it just doesn't fit.

She just wouldn't be able to guarantee that she wouldn't be noticed leaving with him in her truck.

It does make sense if it were someone unknown to people at the school to be that brazen. No one would be able to identify them by name if they were seen taking him.

If she kept him hidden until she was fairly sure she wasn't seen she could go back later and do something to him but that would be equally risky after it was already being investigated.

If she took him from the school she had no way of knowing until the bus came and he wasn't on it and the school was called and investigation began before she could feel safe that she wasn't spotted leaving with him.
If the school had called her right away she would have known they didn't see her leave with him but they didn't.

So I can't think it was planned a head of time by her. If it was an accident or a spur of the moment out of anger thing then she wouldn't have been planning an alibi.

If she did something to Kyron it was not planned in my opinion.

But someone else could have planned it because of the 'organized chaos' that would be involved at the school that day.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! It only takes a couple of seconds to grab a child, shove them into a bathroom or closet, or a vehicle, with your hand over their nose and mouth so they can't cry out. Predators will sieze any opportunity.
If Terri planned to kidnap Kyron, why this day, at the school? For an alibi? No, like you said, she couldn't be certain that no one would see her leaving with him. Too risky.
I admit, she doesn't seem to be wrapped too tight, so if this was a planned thing, I wonder why she didn't think it out a little better.

 

[gliving]

Saturday, June 05, 2010

They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, "The Red-Eyed Tree Frog."...


Terri often volunteers at the school, working closely with Kyron's teacher, Kristina Porter. Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.


More details at this link:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Why would he drop off his coat and backpack if he had a Dr. appointment?

 

[SurfieTX]

"She said he visits his biological mother in Medford every couple of weeks and that Desiree, 38, came to Portland as soon as she heard about his disappearance.

Kyron was supposed to take the bus home Friday, so Terri went to the bus stop at 3:30 p.m. to pick him up.

But the bus driver told her he wasn't there.

Panicked, she ran home and called the school to discover that he had been marked absent for the day.

She called 9-1-1, setting off a search that's drawn in a swarm of officers and several law enforcement agencies, including the FBI. "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Some of this is not accurate? Didn't both TH and KH go to the bus stop? Also, didn't the school call 911 and not TH?

 

[TxLady2]

Kaine seems very sure she had the baby with her. Have you watched the video where he talks about it?

Yes, I have. I'm not discounting his word, just saying how does he know this for certain? Perhaps LE has confirmation that this is true. No one asked him HOW he knows this to be a fact.
All I am saying is, unless it has been confirmed by people at the school, LE cannot even be sure.
And since they both believe that Terri planned this out so carefully, WHY would she take the baby with her to be a witness if she did anything to Kyron? Doesn't make sense to me.
Granted, an 18-mo. old would not be a reliable witness in court.... but if she loves that baby at all, why would she allow her to see whatever took place??

 

[Donjeta]

I think it depends on the layout of the classroom.

In my nephews' school, the classrooms all had a row of hooks and cubbies at the back of the room. Children were expected to remove anything they needed from their backpacks to place in their desks, then leave the jackets and backpacks at the back of the room.

I think it would be easy to overlook there being, say, 25 jackets in the back of the room when there were only 24 kids present that day. Same with backpacks. At the end of the day, when all the other jackets and backpacks were gone, then it would be obvious there were extras. But until then? They'd be hiding in plain sight.

There was a pic of Kyron at school and there was a wall of hooks and backpacks in the background.

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, I have. I'm not discounting his word, just saying how does he know this for certain? Perhaps LE has confirmation that this is true. No one asked him HOW he knows this to be a fact.
All I am saying is, unless it has been confirmed by people at the school, LE cannot even be sure.
And since they both believe that Terri planned this out so carefully, WHY would she take the baby with her to be a witness if she did anything to Kyron? Doesn't make sense to me.
Granted, an 18-mo. old would not be a reliable witness in court.... but if she loves that baby at all, why would she allow her to see whatever took place??

It might be an alibi of sorts, I couldn't have done anything, I had the baby with me?

Anyway, the baby wouldn't have to have seen anything out of the ordinary, IMO. If Terri took Kyron out of school he may have been alive and well at that point and the baby wouldn't have been traumatized by seeing it and if she later did something to hurt him she could have left the baby in the car sleeping or turned the stroller the other way around or something.

 

[human]

QUOTED FROM thread #1 and was posted by Calliope:

'Although the school usually opens at 8:35 a.m. and the final bell rings 10 minutes later, the school opened as early as 8 Friday for the science fair, said Matt Shelby, spokesman for Portland Public Schools.

Other students and parents showed up early as well to check out the fair, and Terri and Kyron saw people they knew while looking at the exhibits, Carol Moulton said.

Terri often volunteers at the school, working closely with Kyron's teacher, Kristina Porter. Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.

At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.

"He told her, 'I'm going back to the classroom, Mom,' and she waves to him and left," Carol Moulton said. "She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday."

What happened to the boy who went missing is unclear.

Carol Moulton said the kids were supposed to report to their classes and be divided into small groups of a few students each. Each group was supposed to tour the science fair with a chaperone. Afterward, when they returned to their classes for roll call, Kyron wasn't there, she said.'




Calliope quoted this from an article but I haven't found the link to the article. It comes from post #497

As a teacher, this timeline by TH bothers me.

Although it was a different type of day and opened early, the bells ring at the same time.

8:35-warning bell. Get to your class.

8:45-school starts.

I see nothing different that school starts at 8:45.

The buses would still be coming at the same time.

Parents could come before work to see the fair.

Why would a person such as Terri bring Kyron to class after 8:45, the final bell? She knows that Kyron would be late then.

As a teacher, I do not care if it was a different type of day.

It would be chaos if children could drop in whenever they felt like it.

I don't think the time rules were suspended that day . The children were to get in groups.

How could that happen if there were no parameters of when school starts?

 

[Donjeta]

No disrespect intended, but how would Desiree know, since she was over 4 hours away? Kaine may believe she had the baby because he hasn't been told any different, and Terri may have hinted that she had to take her with her, but it puzzles me why the baby has never been mentioned in any of these reports of people who saw her and Kyron at the school.
Unless Kaine was there, he cannot say 100% that the baby was with her. And since they've both said Terri lies, why is it not possible that they simply don't know for sure? Unless of course, someone who was there told him personally, which is possible, I guess.

I don't think it matters how many hours away you were if you weren't there. I think they probably know because they have talked to the investigators or people in the school and had them verify it.

 

[Donjeta]

"She said he visits his biological mother in Medford every couple of weeks and that Desiree, 38, came to Portland as soon as she heard about his disappearance.

Kyron was supposed to take the bus home Friday, so Terri went to the bus stop at 3:30 p.m. to pick him up.

But the bus driver told her he wasn't there.

Panicked, she ran home and called the school to discover that he had been marked absent for the day.

She called 9-1-1, setting off a search that's drawn in a swarm of officers and several law enforcement agencies, including the FBI. "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Some of this is not accurate? Didn't both TH and KH go to the bus stop? Also, didn't the school call 911 and not TH?

Yes and I think the bus driver called the school first.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I would like to know (for my own satisfaction) if anyone at school saw baby K with TH that morning. I know that Kaine has said she was with her mother and I don't doubt that she left the house with her, but, if she wasn't with her at the school, it points to a possible accomplice. That's my reasoning, anyway. Can anyone point me to a link where someone, anyone saw baby K at the school that day? TIA

 

[human]

If this was preplanned and she had already told Kyron that he would be leaving I just cant see 7 year old Kyron not telling the friends he was with that he had to leave. It will be very interesting to know what Kyron told his friends before he disappeared. Or did they just turn around and Kyron was no longer in their group of friends? Or once again, did he tell them he was heading back to his classroom?

Just surmising but it seems that Kyron did go into the hallway in front of his classroom and that is when he saw T and he told him he was going to see the cool one (electric exhibit). I believe T said it was around 9pm when he last saw him.

It makes sense to me that the more sophisticated exhibits would be done by those in higher grades (6-7th grade) so imo Kyron went either with a group of his friends that may have also been milling around in the hallway or met them in the gym and grouped up with them there and that is when he was seen by the other student that was interviewed yesterday in the media.

So I think that stretches the time line even further from the time Terri wasnt seen with Kyron until the time he was in the gym with his friends.

IMO

couldn't the preplanning be seeing the cool electric one? Maybe the cool electric one was off the grounds somewhere.

 

[Donjeta]

As a teacher, this timeline by TH bothers me.

Although it was a different type of day and opened early, the bells ring at the same time.

8:35-warning bell. Get to your class.

8:45-school starts.

I see nothing different that school starts at 8:45.

The buses would still be coming at the same time.

Parents could come before work to see the fair.

Why would a person such as Terri bring Kyron to class after 8:45, the final bell? She knows that Kyron would be late then.

As a teacher, I do not care if it was a different type of day.

It would be chaos if children could drop in whenever they felt like it.

I don't think the time rules were suspended that day . The children were to get in groups.

How could that happen if there were no parameters of when school starts?

Thanks for your post... So the children were supposed to be in their classrooms by 8:45. If Kyron wasn't there on time it might explain why nobody saw him after Terri says she saw him. Everybody was in their classrooms and there might have been just a few latecomers or parents leaving. But he wouldn't have gone to the bathroom or anything if he was already late, would he?

 

[Mysterylover]

No disrespect intended, but how would Desiree know, since she was over 4 hours away?
Kaine may believe she had the baby because he hasn't been told any different, and Terri may have hinted that she had to take her with her, but it puzzles me why the baby has never been mentioned in any of these reports of people who saw her and Kyron at the school.
Unless Kaine was there, he cannot say 100% that the baby was with her.
And since they've both said Terri lies, why is it not possible that they simply don't know for sure?
Unless of course, someone who was there told him personally, which is possible, I guess.

TxLady, I suspect IF Terri had the baby with her at school that morning, this 'missing child' was not planned.

What If, she had both children in the truck to get ice cream or lunch, as a treat and Kyron did something to make the baby cry?
Maybe this caused T. to run off the road with the truck and threw K. into the windshield or she just snapped from the baby screaming and hit Kyron?

 

[Donjeta]

If this was preplanned and she had already told Kyron that he would be leaving I just cant see 7 year old Kyron not telling the friends he was with that he had to leave. It will be very interesting to know what Kyron told his friends before he disappeared. Or did they just turn around and Kyron was no longer in their group of friends? Or once again, did he tell them he was heading back to his classroom?

Just surmising but it seems that Kyron did go into the hallway in front of his classroom and that is when he saw T and he told him he was going to see the cool one (electric exhibit). I believe T said it was around 9pm when he last saw him.

Snip and bbm. Where did T say what time it was when he saw Kyron? I didn't see him being specific about it in the two videos, iirc.

 

[human]

If nothing else, a smart teacher would realize there is no child present associated with that backpack, and regardless of anything else, should cause the teacher to wonder why the child brought a backpack if the parent was going to take the child to the Dr in the first place. But why this child wasn't followed up on, why no one called to verify the parent had the child......that remains the mystery to me.

as a teacher, I can tell you of the million times kids leave things at school. This was not a poor child who could not live without his backpack or jacket.

If it was important, and Terri was so responsible, she would call about it later.

I live where it is ice cold winter.

We have a lost and found table. What amazes me to no end is the amount of winter jackets that are on that lost and found table.

At the end of the year when all of the things are donated to the Goodwill, I would go pick the table for winter items that I could use for the kids in my classroom the next year for when we go outside.

 

[Donjeta]

TxLady, I suspect IF Terri had the baby with her at school that morning, this 'missing child' was not planned.

What If, she had both children in the truck to get ice cream or lunch, as a treat and Kyron did something to make the baby cry?
Maybe this caused T. to run off the road with the truck and threw K. into the windshield or she just snapped from the baby screaming and hit Kyron?

They would have seen evidence of an accident in the truck.