General theory thread and motives rehashed #2

[Whisperer]

Cobra should go back and review his tapes. Ron did not say that he put the gun in a ditch or culvert at Hank, Sr.'s house. In fact, he wasn't clear about where he put it, but there are indications that the culvert was at Tommy's house. For one thing, in the Cobra tapes, Ron talks about coming out of his room and walking around the corner to find Joe's girlfriend looking in the culvert. Around the corner from Ron's house would be Tommy's house, not Hank, Sr.'s.
ETA: Art Harris states, "the Croslin's former driveway." That could be a reference to Tommy and Lindsy's house on Tyler.

Thank you, Ger. You're the best. And big thanks to Nomoresorrow who had the patience to transcribe the Cobra tapes.

Ron: joe had his old lady come from wherever she was from in her new cadillac
and when i come down out from my room that day… after i hid it…ok?…after..
i didn`t tell nobody… so he thought that was where it`s at …and I come around the corner and guess where his girlfriend`s at?Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Revisiting the cobra & ronald tapes

WTH? "Down out from my room that day"?....etc.etc.. WTH is ronnie talking about? This guy is kookoo for CocoaPuffs...I swear. What room?

...he goes on, "AFTER I HID IT..ok? He tells us JO's girlfriend is there in her car to pick JO up. Can I assume that JO was leaving that day and he was leaving from tommy's and the gun was there hidden by ron....that places this AFTER Haleigh is missing...correct? We were told that JO would go nowhere near ron's house yet, here rc is describing that JO is in the neighborhood and leaving from Tyler to head back to TN. Chelsea told us that JO would go nowhere near the crime scene and he insisted she drop him off at the Kangaroo. YET, here is rc saying he is right there near the scene within hours.

 

[Whisperer]

Rc says JO stole his "piece" on the third day he arrived. Are we to believe that rc was w/o a gun for eleven days? No Way! But then ronnie says he hid the gun, himself and cleaned it up.

I am sure glad the State put that "Truthful" clause in r. ronnies' plea bargain. This guy will be spending in his entire life in prison because he is NOT capable of a truthful statement.

 

[Indiana at Heart]

When Lindsay and Tommy Croslin, Hank Sr. and Lisa Croslin showed me where they said Joe hid the gun--and Chelsea and Misty found it--we were standing in the yard at Tommy and Lindsay's house on Tyler St, where a culvert runs along the front and a drainage pipe runs under the driveway....


http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/20/exclusive-misty-croslin-i-would-have-shot-joe/#more-4625


commant section

 

[suspicious1]

WTH? "Down out from my room that day"?....etc.etc.. WTH is ronnie talking about? This guy is kookoo for CocoaPuffs...I swear. What room?

...he goes on, "AFTER I HID IT..ok? He tells us JO's girlfriend is there in her car to pick JO up. Can I assume that JO was leaving that day and he was leaving from tommy's and the gun was there hidden by ron....that places this AFTER Haleigh is missing...correct? We were told that JO would go nowhere near ron's house yet, here rc is describing that JO is in the neighborhood and leaving from Tyler to head back to TN. Chelsea told us that JO would go nowhere near the crime scene and he insisted she drop him off at the Kangaroo. YET, here is rc saying he is right there near the scene within hours.

That's what it sounds like to me too, Whisp. It sounds like all this was going on the day Jo was suppose to leave. I mean, the girlfriend only dropped Jo off and was scheduled to pick him up, so those are the only times that she would have been around. IMO, Ron was talking about the day that Jo was going to leave and his ride was there and wasn't that Feb 10th or Feb 11th? This makes me think about Misty saying that she was with Chelsea looking for the gun with Ron on the phone. After Haleigh went missing, didn't Misty go stay at Tommy's house with Lisa C. for a day or two? Could this have been the time that Misty and Chelsea supposedly found the gun? Did Misty go back to Ron AFTER she found the gun? IDK, I'm confusing myself!

 

[doobiedoo52]

Papa--I agree it is so frustrating to have all the conflicting stories. Good old AH constantly contradicts his own stories--mixing up the names of the players, etc. I don't think the man has even been in Satsuma for over a year. And then there's Cobra. If he actually let the person talk who's trying to tell the story--he might get a clearer answer. He constantly butts in and confuses the characters as well--as evidenced by the tapes.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a REAL investigative reporter ask some clear questions and
get some clear cut answers? For instance, when Cobra confronts Ron about Misty driving the van and picking up Haleigh after school: Why can't anyone ask the very simple question---who was driving the van that day? Mr S says Misty picked up Haleigh-what about it Ron? You were supposedly there---who was driving the van that was seen if it wasn't Misty? Why does no one ask LOGICAL questions?

The gun story: Ronald, you said the third day JO was here he stole your gun. On what date did you FIND that gun in the culvert and clean it up? And what day did you observe JO's girlfriend looking in that culvert? And did YOU personally find it or did you have Misty and Chelsea look for it? Why is getting a story accurate like pulling teeth with this crowd? Grrrrr lol

 

[Emeralgem]

That's what it sounds like to me too, Whisp. It sounds like all this was going on the day Jo was suppose to leave. I mean, the girlfriend only dropped Jo off and was scheduled to pick him up, so those are the only times that she would have been around. IMO, Ron was talking about the day that Jo was going to leave and his ride was there and wasn't that Feb 10th or Feb 11th? This makes me think about Misty saying that she was with Chelsea looking for the gun with Ron on the phone. After Haleigh went missing, didn't Misty go stay at Tommy's house with Lisa C. for a day or two? Could this have been the time that Misty and Chelsea supposedly found the gun? Did Misty go back to Ron AFTER she found the gun? IDK, I'm confusing myself!

I don't understand what he means either when he says.. "Down out from my room that day" ... What room is he talking about and what day? The MH at 202 Green Lane should have been totally off limits to everyone including him immediately after LE arrived early morning on the 10th of February..
suspicious.. It is my understanding from what Jo O and Shawn Sirgo stated in an interview back in April/May Jo left the night of the 10th because that is when he was scheduled to leave...
Jo stated he went with a relative to the hospital on the morning of the 10th to visit his uncle.. He also stated he hung flyers with Misty during the day on Februaty 10th..
Misty claims her father was brought in by ambulance from Shands and taken to Tommy's residence but Misty claims when her mother and Jo picked her up from the police station she did not go back down to the area because someone in LE told her NOT to go back down there...So she and Jo stayed up by that store or whatever it was to hang flyers...I'm thinking she stayed at her parent's residence or with Timmy and Chelsey since she was not seen for a couple of days after Haleigh disappeared..
If Misty didn't go back down there that day I don't know how she and her sister-n-law could have found a gun in the culvert on Tyler Street on the 10th of February, the same day the 911 call was made........Another thing seems there would have been LE everywhere on the day of the 10th so when did Ron C find his gun and take it home and clean it? Am I not understanding something of importance...

 

[bessie]

WTH? "Down out from my room that day"?....etc.etc.. WTH is ronnie talking about? This guy is kookoo for CocoaPuffs...I swear. What room?

...he goes on, "AFTER I HID IT..ok? He tells us JO's girlfriend is there in her car to pick JO up. Can I assume that JO was leaving that day and he was leaving from tommy's and the gun was there hidden by ron....that places this AFTER Haleigh is missing...correct? We were told that JO would go nowhere near ron's house yet, here rc is describing that JO is in the neighborhood and leaving from Tyler to head back to TN. Chelsea told us that JO would go nowhere near the crime scene and he insisted she drop him off at the Kangaroo. YET, here is rc saying he is right there near the scene within hours.

We're assuming the girlfriend was in Satsuma only to drop off Joe and then pick him up on Feb. 10th, but we don't know that to be a fact. She was staying in Orlando, iirc, about an hour-and-a-half drive. She very well might've driven over at some point in between.

This is my interpretation of this gun business, fwiw:

• Joe steals Ron's gun three days after his arrival in Satsuma
• Ron confronts him shortly afterward; big argument at Hank, Sr.'s house
• Ron has an idea that it might be in the culvert and tells Misty to look there
• Chelsea and Misty find the gun in the culvert and return it to Ron
• Ron cleans it and hides it in his room in the MH
• A few days before Haleigh's disappearance, he walks around the corner to Tyler and sees Joe's gf looking in the culvert because Joe thought the gun was still there.
• GF goes back to Orlando because Joe wants to stick around Satsuma a little longer until he can find the gun
• Ron knows Joe will come looking for it, so he removes all of the guns from the MH
• Joe does go to the MH to look for the gun on Monday when he knows Ron is at work
• An altercation ensues
• Haleigh dies later that night as the result of an unrelated incident

 

[Emeralgem]

We're assuming the girlfriend was in Satsuma only to drop off Joe and then pick him up on Feb. 10th, but we don't know that to be a fact. She was staying in Orlando, iirc, about an hour-and-a-half drive. She very well might've driven over at some point in between.

This is my interpretation of this gun business, fwiw:

• Joe steals Ron's gun three days after his arrival in Satsuma
• Ron confronts him shortly afterward; big argument at Hank, Sr.'s house
• Ron has an idea that it might be in the culvert and tells Misty to look there
• Chelsea and Misty find the gun in the culvert and return it to Ron
• Ron cleans it and hides it in his room in the MH
• A few days before Haleigh's disappearance, he walks around the corner to Tyler and sees Joe's gf looking in the culvert because Joe thought the gun was still there.
• GF goes back to Orlando because Joe wants to stick around Satsuma a little longer until he can find the gun
• Ron knows Joe will come looking for it, so he removes all of the guns from the MH
• Joe does go to the MH to look for the gun on Monday when he knows Ron is at work
• An altercation ensues
• Haleigh dies later that night as the result of an unrelated incident

BBM..Shawn Sirgo and Jo both stated Jo was scheduled to leave on February 10... so IMHO he didn't decide to stay longer in order to steal a gun..

BBM Could be true but WHY would Ron C adamantly deny on national tv Jo O was ever at the MH that night...

 

[bessie]

BBM..Shawn Sirgo and Jo both stated Jo was scheduled to leave on February 10... so IMHO he didn't decide to stay longer in order to steal a gun..

BBM Could be true but WHY would Ron C adamantly deny on national tv Jo O was ever at the MH that night...

Okay, but do we know that the gf didn't go to Satsuma prior to picking up Joe for the ride home to TN?

He also denied the fight with Joe. Why? I dunno... Maybe he knew Joe wasn't the perp and didn't want to mess up the poor guy's life. :biglaugh:

Seriously, that is a possibility.

 

[lonetraveler]

Rc says JO stole his "piece" on the third day he arrived. Are we to believe that rc was w/o a gun for eleven days? No Way! But then ronnie says he hid the gun, himself and cleaned it up.

I am sure glad the State put that "Truthful" clause in r. ronnies' plea bargain. This guy will be spending in his entire life in prison because he is NOT capable of a truthful statement.

I'm wondering what method the State will use to vet Ron's answers. Unless the State has a heck of a lot of info we don't know about, how are they going to know that Ron is lying or (cough, cough) telling the truth? Definitely hope they're not going to stand back and watch for his nose to grow longer.......................LOL.

 

[lonetraveler]

Okay, but do we know that the gf didn't go to Satsuma prior to picking up Joe for the ride home to TN?

He also denied the fight with Joe. Why? I dunno... Maybe he knew Joe wasn't the perp and didn't want to mess up the poor guy's life. :biglaugh:

Seriously, that is a possibility.

JMO, but I just can't see Ron going from wanting to crush Joe's hands to caring about messing Joe's life up................I have always interpreted Ron insisting that Joe was not at the MH as Ron not wanting to ruffle Joe's feathers in anyway....kinda like Ron owed Joe for maybe something Joe did for him. Maybe Joe threatened to tell all he knows if he was implicated by Ron in anyway........who knows? But I really don't think that Ron was being considerate of Joe. KWIM?

 

[bessie]

JMO, but I just can't see Ron going from wanting to crush Joe's hands to caring about messing Joe's life up................I have always interpreted Ron insisting that Joe was not at the MH as Ron not wanting to ruffle Joe's feathers in anyway....kinda like Ron owed Joe for maybe something Joe did for him. Maybe Joe threatened to tell all he knows if he was implicated by Ron in anyway........who knows? But I really don't think that Ron was being considerate of Joe. KWIM?

I don't think so, either, lone. Just thougth I'd throw that ot as a little attempt at humor, and to point out that it is possilbe albeit far-fetched. It's good to shake the cobwebs out now and then.

 

[lonetraveler]

Since the very day this case became news there has been major frustration trying to get actual "dates" for events and activities that occurred prior to and after Haleigh was reported missing. Everytime one of us have tried to start a thread for the timeline, it just fizzled out due to not having correct "dates" to base the activities on. Have any of you ever notice that in any interviews with the players in this case, the person being interviewed appears to be very purposeful in not mentioning dates. Now, we hear that Ron is offered a plea in exchange for his help in the "timeline". Imagine that! Now after eighteen months he is actually going to remember and offer up "dates"? Posters have dilligently worked to figure out the dates in this circus and then we get the multiple stories and times for the dang gun story. I'm not sure that Ron can furnish a timeline, I'm not sure he is capable of furnishing a timeline unless he just makes it up like everything else.

 

[justus4all]

Since the very day this case became news there has been major frustration trying to get actual "dates" for events and activities that occurred prior to and after Haleigh was reported missing. Everytime one of us have tried to start a thread for the timeline, it just fizzled out due to not having correct "dates" to base the activities on. Have any of you ever notice that in any interviews with the players in this case, the person being interviewed appears to be very purposeful in not mentioning dates. Now, we hear that Ron is offered a plea in exchange for his help in the "timeline". Imagine that! Now after eighteen months he is actually going to remember and offer up "dates"? Posters have dilligently worked to figure out the dates in this circus and then we get the multiple stories and times for the dang gun story. I'm not sure that Ron can furnish a timeline, I'm not sure he is capable of furnishing a timeline unless he just makes it up like everything else.

bolded by me....OH!!!! I SO AGREE!!!! I myself, have spent coutless hours reading, rereading, checking statements, ..trying to make myself some sort of "starting point"...and just end up more confused..

I am still trying to nail down...what time Haleigh got off the bus stop..

The time she got off the bus stop..that would be the last VERIFIED/WITNESSED time she was seen ALIVE...by other parents there..

after she gets off the bus....the accounting of stories begin solely by Cummings/Croslins..and go 1,000 different directions..KWIM??:banghead:

 

[Emeralgem]

Okay, but do we know that the gf didn't go to Satsuma prior to picking up Joe for the ride home to TN?

He also denied the fight with Joe. Why? I dunno... Maybe he knew Joe wasn't the perp and didn't want to mess up the poor guy's life. :biglaugh:

Seriously, that is a possibility.

:no: wrong answer...LOL...

 

[bessie]

We're assuming the girlfriend was in Satsuma only to drop off Joe and then pick him up on Feb. 10th, but we don't know that to be a fact. She was staying in Orlando, iirc, about an hour-and-a-half drive. She very well might've driven over at some point in between.

This is my interpretation of this gun business, fwiw

1. Joe steals Ron's gun three days after his arrival in Satsuma
2. Ron confronts him shortly afterward; big argument at Hank, Sr.'s house
3. Ron has an idea that it might be in the culvert and tells Misty to look there
4. Chelsea and Misty find the gun in the culvert and return it to Ron
5. Ron cleans it and hides it in his room in the MH
6. A few days before Haleigh's disappearance, he walks around the corner to Tyler and sees Joe's gf looking in the culvert because Joe thought the gun was still there.
7. GF goes back to Orlando because Joe wants to stick around Satsuma a little longer until he can find the gun
8. Ron knows Joe will come looking for it, so he removes all of the guns from the MH
9. Joe does go to the MH to look for the gun on Monday when he knows Ron is at work
10. An altercation ensues
11. Haleigh dies later that night as the result of a possibly unrelated incident

I've pieced together a timeline of events regarding the gun based on the few facts I've derived from the disjointed Cobra tapes. I've further verified as many details as possible with supporting statments from other sources. Note: My findings are not 100% conclusive. They do, however, form a fairly plausible timeline of events. Now I'd like us to debunk it.

If we address one point at a time, eventually we can compile our information and from that compilation formulate a viable conclusion.

For example, if you agree or disagree with item 2, type: Item 2: I don't think Joe stole Ron's gun because...;
or conversely, if you believe Joe did steal Ron's gun, you'd type;
Item 2: I'm convinced Joe stole the gun because...
Include as many details as necessary to support your argument but don't let them spill over into another topic. Make your best effort to limit your explanations to the topic of the line item in question.

Rahter than have our thoughts scatted all over the place, they would be compiled under one worksheet, if you will, and the answers subsequently compiled and analyzed for weight and merit. Ideally, we'll convince an objective third party to perform the analysis.

 

[lonetraveler]

bolded by me....OH!!!! I SO AGREE!!!! I myself, have spent coutless hours reading, rereading, checking statements, ..trying to make myself some sort of "starting point"...and just end up more confused..

I am still trying to nail down...what time Haleigh got off the bus stop..

The time she got off the bus stop..that would be the last VERIFIED/WITNESSED time she was seen ALIVE...by other parents there..

after she gets off the bus....the accounting of stories begin solely by Cummings/Croslins..and go 1,000 different directions..KWIM??:banghead:

Just the fact that the State made a deal with Ron for a timeline is very discouraging because to me, that points to the State being in the same predicament that we are all in and that is that the State have not been able to establish a timeline either.............this makes me want to scream......:banghead:

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't think so, either, lone. Just thougth I'd throw that ot as a little attempt at humor, and to point out that it is possilbe albeit far-fetched. It's good to shake the cobwebs out now and then.

LOL, well for what it is worth, your attempt at humor did work........you did make me chuckle when I read that..................keep up the good work.....:crazy:

 

[lonetraveler]

We're assuming the girlfriend was in Satsuma only to drop off Joe and then pick him up on Feb. 10th, but we don't know that to be a fact. She was staying in Orlando, iirc, about an hour-and-a-half drive. She very well might've driven over at some point in between.

This is my interpretation of this gun business, fwiw

1. Joe steals Ron's gun three days after his arrival in Satsuma
2. Ron confronts him shortly afterward; big argument at Hank, Sr.'s house
3. Ron has an idea that it might be in the culvert and tells Misty to look there
4. Chelsea and Misty find the gun in the culvert and return it to Ron
5. Ron cleans it and hides it in his room in the MH
6. A few days before Haleigh's disappearance, he walks around the corner to Tyler and sees Joe's gf looking in the culvert because Joe thought the gun was still there.
7. GF goes back to Orlando because Joe wants to stick around Satsuma a little longer until he can find the gun
8. Ron knows Joe will come looking for it, so he removes all of the guns from the MH
9. Joe does go to the MH to look for the gun on Monday when he knows Ron is at work
10. An altercation ensues
11. Haleigh dies later that night as the result of a possibly unrelated incident

I've pieced together a timeline of events regarding the gun based on the few facts I've derived from the disjointed Cobra tapes. I've further verified as many details as possible with supporting statments from other sources. Note: My findings are not 100% conclusive. They do, however, form a fairly plausible timeline of events. Now I'd like us to debunk it.

If we address one point at a time, eventually we can compile our information and from that compilation formulate a viable conclusion.

For example, if you agree or disagree with item 2, type: Item 2: I don't think Joe stole Ron's gun because...;
or conversely, if you believe Joe did steal Ron's gun, you'd type;
Item 2: I'm convinced Joe stole the gun because...
Include as many details as necessary to support your argument but don't let them spill over into another topic. Make your best effort to limit your explanations to the topic of the line item in question.

Rahter than have our thoughts scatted all over the place, they would be compiled under one worksheet, if you will, and the answers subsequently compiled and analyzed for weight and merit. Ideally, we'll convince an objective third party to perform the analysis.

LOL, are you trying to make me actually organize my thoughts??????

 

[justus4all]

We're assuming the girlfriend was in Satsuma only to drop off Joe and then pick him up on Feb. 10th, but we don't know that to be a fact. She was staying in Orlando, iirc, about an hour-and-a-half drive. She very well might've driven over at some point in between.

This is my interpretation of this gun business, fwiw

1. Joe steals Ron's gun three days after his arrival in Satsuma
2. Ron confronts him shortly afterward; big argument at Hank, Sr.'s house
3. Ron has an idea that it might be in the culvert and tells Misty to look there
4. Chelsea and Misty find the gun in the culvert and return it to Ron
5. Ron cleans it and hides it in his room in the MH
6. A few days before Haleigh's disappearance, he walks around the corner to Tyler and sees Joe's gf looking in the culvert because Joe thought the gun was still there.
7. GF goes back to Orlando because Joe wants to stick around Satsuma a little longer until he can find the gun
8. Ron knows Joe will come looking for it, so he removes all of the guns from the MH
   [*]Joe does go to the MH to look for the gun on Monday when he knows Ron is at work
9. An altercation ensues
10. Haleigh dies later that night as the result of a possibly unrelated incident

I've pieced together a timeline of events regarding the gun based on the few facts I've derived from the disjointed Cobra tapes. I've further verified as many details as possible with supporting statments from other sources. Note: My findings are not 100% conclusive. They do, however, form a fairly plausible timeline of events. Now I'd like us to debunk it.

If we address one point at a time, eventually we can compile our information and from that compilation formulate a viable conclusion.

For example, if you agree or disagree with item 2, type: Item 2: I don't think Joe stole Ron's gun because...;
or conversely, if you believe Joe did steal Ron's gun, you'd type;
Item 2: I'm convinced Joe stole the gun because...
Include as many details as necessary to support your argument but don't let them spill over into another topic. Make your best effort to limit your explanations to the topic of the line item in question.

Rahter than have our thoughts scatted all over the place, they would be compiled under one worksheet, if you will, and the answers subsequently compiled and analyzed for weight and merit. Ideally, we'll convince an objective third party to perform the analysis.

bolded by me...In regard to number 8 ..IF Ron thought this...how did he think Joe would get it in MH????...Break down the door???? Break in a window??? Ron would tell Misty NOT TO OPEN THE DOOR if Joe showed up at the MH....For Ron to remove ALL his guns from his residence, IMO..would be so the LE would not find his guns if searched....IMO..not for Joe "breaking in"....Misty would surely call the LE if the MH was being broken into...BY ANYONE...Didn't LE say there was no sign of a door being broken into???