Casey's Diary Entry for June 21st & Missing Pages #2

[beach]

Beach, if the only SINGLE thing the SA can prove conclusively (and it seems they can) is the diary was not in stores until 2004 I think that's significant on its own. It might be worth presenting that fact to the jury and let them decide for themselves. I don't think they'll be confused. They can ignore it if they want -- if the defense brings a good argument against it then they will deem it meaningless. It won't hurt the prosecution's credibility, I don't think.

The fact that it is dated with a wrong year is big. Enough to show deception and the jury may wonder why. Put that with what is actually written and it's meaningful. I think even if the ink is not dated it could be used effectively.

And also, we don't know how long that diary was in the store for sale, from 2004 until? Maybe it's being sold to this day and was bought on the eve of Caylee's murder. It's a decent theory. The prosecution could make a strong argument if they choose.

I know what you are saying.

The thing is, IMO, sometimes less really is more. The State needs to focus on those things that cannot be disputed. The 31 days...the fact that there is no Zanny...the rare brand of Henkel duct tape found on Caylee's skull was the same tape that was used to hang the Caylee is Missing posters...the decomp stain in the Pontiac...the high levels of chloroform...etc... There is NO defense to those things. Try as they might, there is nothing that JB or CM can say to lessen the impact of those.

If they were to introduce this diary and there is not proof positive that it was written in 2008, that is going to be the thing that the defense harps on endlessly. They will use it to shift focus from the really damning things I listed above and try to get jurors to focus on "what might have happened", as they present an alternate theory. They will attempt to get jurors to lose trust in the prosecutors. I just don't think the State really needs this diary that bad. If there wasn't so much evidence, then yes, I would agree. It is just too big of a roll of the dice, imo. Why take the risk when you don't have to, kwim?

 

[sleutherontheside]

I agree Beach...I have been watching a North Florida trial for 2 weeks. The penalty phase began yesterday. Between yesterday and today...EVERY one of the defense mitigation witnesses made a better case for the State.

The St. of Florida presented it's case and did't even introduce some things.....IMO because they just didn't need them.

Let me say...this trial I am referring to was EYE OPENING.

 

[logicalgirl]

Ohhhhhhh, logical - do we have any good photos of those ultrasound pics? Of course, it might only prove she lied again - but I would love to see the pics and see what I can see and any of our other medical people on board!

Was it Greta's interview when the camera scanned the wall and we could see them there? I will have to look back at the videos and see if I can find them. I remember sort of seeing them and thinking huh :waitasec:, when were those taken and left it at that. Will try to find.

 

[faefrost]

Was it Greta's interview when the camera scanned the wall and we could see them there? I will have to look back at the videos and see if I can find them. I remember sort of seeing them and thinking huh :waitasec:, when were those taken and left it at that. Will try to find.

Wasn't that when we suspect that CA prepped that room for the interview in order to prove to the world what a good and loving mother KC was? And what a happy loving home environment Caylee had. There was something just off and creepy about it.

 

[ynotdivein]

I agree Beach...I have been watching a North Florida trial for 2 weeks. The penalty phase began yesterday. Between yesterday and today...EVERY one of the defense mitigation witnesses made a better case for the State.

The St. of Florida presented it's case and did't even introduce some things.....IMO because they just didn't need them.

Let me say...this trial I am referring to was EYE OPENING.

OK, you have totally piqued my curiosity--which trial and why so EYE OPENING??? :blowkiss: in advance!

 

[Intermezzo]

I agree Beach...I have been watching a North Florida trial for 2 weeks. The penalty phase began yesterday. Between yesterday and today...EVERY one of the defense mitigation witnesses made a better case for the State.

The St. of Florida presented it's case and did't even introduce some things.....IMO because they just didn't need them.

Let me say...this trial I am referring to was EYE OPENING.

OK, you have totally piqued my curiosity--which trial and why so EYE OPENING??? :blowkiss: in advance!

Could it be the murder trial of Gary Michael Hilton?

He is on trial in Tallahassee for the murder of Cheryl Dunlap.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120979&highlight=Gary+Michael+Hilton
Gary Hilton - Cheryl Dunlap murder TRIAL

http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=236257
Penalty phase of Hilton trial continues today
-----------------

 

[logicalgirl]

Wasn't that when we suspect that CA prepped that room for the interview in order to prove to the world what a good and loving mother KC was? And what a happy loving home environment Caylee had. There was something just off and creepy about it.

Yes! That's the one - very creepy indeed!

 

[AZlawyer]

This is a wild shot in the dark but jumped into my thoughts when reading this response...

Have to go back and look at photo of diary again, but is it even slightly possible that the " 8 " was altered into a " 3 "...

I don't think so, because the photos showing the "invisible writing" (indentations from another page) don't show any indentations where the rest of the "8" would have been.

I know what you are saying.

The thing is, IMO, sometimes less really is more. The State needs to focus on those things that cannot be disputed. The 31 days...the fact that there is no Zanny...the rare brand of Henkel duct tape found on Caylee's skull was the same tape that was used to hang the Caylee is Missing posters...the decomp stain in the Pontiac...the high levels of chloroform...etc... There is NO defense to those things. Try as they might, there is nothing that JB or CM can say to lessen the impact of those.

If they were to introduce this diary and there is not proof positive that it was written in 2008, that is going to be the thing that the defense harps on endlessly. They will use it to shift focus from the really damning things I listed above and try to get jurors to focus on "what might have happened", as they present an alternate theory. They will attempt to get jurors to lose trust in the prosecutors. I just don't think the State really needs this diary that bad. If there wasn't so much evidence, then yes, I would agree. It is just too big of a roll of the dice, imo. Why take the risk when you don't have to, kwim?

I agree. But I'm still keeping my fingers crossed--didn't the SA say at the last hearing that the diary was still being tested? I didn't get to watch the hearing, but I thought I saw some posts about it.

 

[beach]

I agree. But I'm still keeping my fingers crossed--didn't the SA say at the last hearing that the diary was still being tested? I didn't get to watch the hearing, but I thought I saw some posts about it.

Yes, it has been sent back out for further testing. Specifically, the ink, I believe. I think they are trying to "date" it. Not sure how all that works.

I totally agree that it should come in if they can get a credible expert to testify that it was written close to 2008, as opposed to 2003-2007.

Which brings up another question - Won't the defense want to run their own battery of tests with their own experts to try to contradict the SA's findings if they do decide to introduce it? Seems we are a little late in the game for sending off evidence to be tested. Scares me.

One thing is for sure, if the State doesn't want to introduce it, the defense sure as heck won't do it. Nothing there could help them.

 

[LCoastMom]

Ohhhhhhh, logical - do we have any good photos of those ultrasound pics? Of course, it might only prove she lied again - but I would love to see the pics and see what I can see and any of our other medical people on board!

CA also lied to her coworkers during the same time, KC would show up at CA's work, they all knew KC was pregnant - CA IIRC was still spouting the tumor story - or at least acting oblivious to the obvious.

 

[LinasK]

The End Justifies the means.

Interesting this Page

This quote which I have taken from that link is how I have always interpreted that phrase, which fits in much better with murder than lying: "My aim for greater good(the end) makes all the evils I have done(the means) right."

 

[LinasK]

CA also lied to her coworkers during the same time, KC would show up at CA's work, they all knew KC was pregnant - CA IIRC was still spouting the tumor story - or at least acting oblivious to the obvious.

Yes, Gentiva Home Health has a good reputation nationally. I used to work for them in California. These people are all in the nursing or related health care fields(not that you need to be to tell that a 7mo. pregnant woman is pregnant- even a kid can spot that), they're not stupid.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[logicalgirl]

CA also lied to her coworkers during the same time, KC would show up at CA's work, they all knew KC was pregnant - CA IIRC was still spouting the tumor story - or at least acting oblivious to the obvious.

This is the stuff that makes me crazy and wants to know what the heck was going on in their minds? You are so ashamed your unwed daughter is pregnant and doesn't know who the father is - you'd rather say she has a (huge) tumor? :banghead:

What is wrong with these people!!!

 

[Searchfortruth]

I still can't figure out though why anyone would even bother with changing dates, adding dates, tearing out pages, etc. Why not just throw it away and dispose of it?

I don't think any of them were any good at disposing of evidence. For example, the Duct Tape that was still in the garage and on the gas can, the trash bags with yellow handles (in the garage, but hidden in a cooler, IIRC) and the canvas bag (left in some sort of container in the garage). Casey sure didn't care enough to throw away the duct tape, trash bags and canvas bag when she was out on bond. And she knew they were very important items that would link her to Caylee's remains. While I don't put it past Cindy to dispose of evidence, I am not sure she has the intelligence needed to cover everything. Yes, she washed the pants, the doll in Casey's car (that smelled like death). But, she also called LE and said that if Casey did something to Caylee, she had to have help. There are countless other statements, actions on Cindy's part that do not serve her daughter's case well.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I still can't figure out though why anyone would even bother with changing dates, adding dates, tearing out pages, etc. Why not just throw it away and dispose of it?

I don't think any of them were any good at disposing of evidence. For example, the Duct Tape that was still in the garage and on the gas can, the trash bags with yellow handles (in the garage, but hidden in a cooler, IIRC) and the canvas bag (left in some sort of container in the garage). Casey sure didn't care enough to throw away the duct tape, trash bags and canvas bag when she was out on bond. And she knew they were very important items that would link her to Caylee's remains. While I don't put it past Cindy to dispose of evidence, I am not sure she has the intelligence needed to cover everything. Yes, she washed the pants, the doll in Casey's car (that smelled like death). But, she also called LE and said that if Casey did something to Caylee, she had to have help. There are countless other statements, actions on Cindy's part that do not serve her daughter's case well.

Not to mention even ICA was not good at throwing or disposing of anything unless it is a child, her reputation or her body. Remember she left the trash bag and pizza box in the car.
(my first multi-quote! LOL at me all proud to finally do one!)

 

[hornswoggled]

To be such a big CSI fan, Casey surely was sloppy. A diary about her state of mind? Good grief! If it was indeed from 2008, somebody is just plain dumber than a box of rocks. I think that she suffers from the delusion that she is invisible as well as bullet-proof. She lied throughout her life, her friends knew it, her family knew it, yet no one ever really called her out on it. Her friends just accepted the fact that she was simply a liar. Of course, she never suspected that they all knew this fact.

Since she wasn't called on her lies, she must have gotten the flawed idea that she was extremely good at fooling people with her preposterous tales; examples: her nanny, her "job" as an event planner at Universal and her "missing" daughter. She got away with it - she thought. Now, all the lies that are piled up in her corner are being sifted through and everyone is becoming enlightened as to the extent she lied. BUT - these lies are coming out in a court of law and will help to build a capital murder case against her. All those little "mistruths" as Cindy so cavalierly calls them are going to put Casey Anthony away - one way or another.

Cindy's big mistake - never making Casey own the lies she spewed on a regular basis.

George's big mistake - never stepping up and being a stricter father, even if it meant being called down by his wife.

They both owed more to their daughter in the way of being the kind of disciplinarians that she truly needed. Also, she never should have been forced to keep a child that she DID NOT want. That in itself is a recipe for disaster. But now she is an adult and she will own her lies and deceipt as well as the death of her daughter. Justice demands so.

 

[Gma Kat]

To be such a big CSI fan, Casey surely was sloppy. A diary about her state of mind? Good grief! If it was indeed from 2008, somebody is just plain dumber than a box of rocks. I think that she suffers from the delusion that she is invisible as well as bullet-proof. She lied throughout her life, her friends knew it, her family knew it, yet no one ever really called her out on it. Her friends just accepted the fact that she was simply a liar. Of course, she never suspected that they all knew this fact.

Since she wasn't called on her lies, she must have gotten the flawed idea that she was extremely good at fooling people with her preposterous tales; examples: her nanny, her "job" as an event planner at Universal and her "missing" daughter. She got away with it - she thought. Now, all the lies that are piled up in her corner are being sifted through and everyone is becoming enlightened as to the extent she lied. BUT - these lies are coming out in a court of law and will help to build a capital murder case against her. All those little "mistruths" as Cindy so cavalierly calls them are going to put Casey Anthony away - one way or another.

Cindy's big mistake - never making Casey own the lies she spewed on a regular basis.

George's big mistake - never stepping up and being a stricter father, even if it meant being called down by his wife.

They both owed more to their daughter in the way of being the kind of disciplinarians that she truly needed. Also, she never should have been forced to keep a child that she DID NOT want. That in itself is a recipe for disaster. But now she is an adult and she will own her lies and deceipt as well as the death of her daughter. Justice demands so.

I just wanted to take time to say "Well said!'

I don't know when that diary was written, but if ICA ever suspected CA of reading her diary(ies) then perhaps whatever event precipitated ICA writing the page in question........maybe ICA knew CA would read those words one day and know............

Just another way to torment CA??? Surely ICA didn't think LE would ever wind up with that diary.

 

[LCoastMom]

I just wanted to take time to say "Well said!'

I don't know when that diary was written, but if ICA ever suspected CA of reading her diary(ies) then perhaps whatever event precipitated ICA writing the page in question........maybe ICA knew CA would read those words one day and know............

Just another way to torment CA??? Surely ICA didn't think LE would ever wind up with that diary.

So many things that ICA didn't think through! When all put together it is obvious that ICA didn't put much thought into anything, beyond her boy-toy du jour.

 

[gngr~snap]

I do not believe the diary will be allowed at this late date. I did have a thought! Remember the garbage lady? She went and collected the Anthony trash ... LE seemed uninterested at the time. I could die a happy women IF those lost pages had been in that bag!! She had the opportunity to rip those pages out when realeased to return home the first time. THAT WOULD BE KARMA!

I want y'all to know I am only playing devil's advocate, trying to think what KC's thoughts may have been.
KC is a pathological liar. No one will ever believe anything she says ever. As far as CA I dont believe her accts of anything either, not the $40,000 KC stole, not her accts of 6/15 or any other day. That woman, CA is a female evil version of "A Great Mind" minus the IQ plus some estrogen!

THERE IS NO PLEASING a mom like that! I can not understand KC killing Caylee, I never will, BUT, if I had to chose to live on an island with one of them I'd pick KC hands down!

I dont know how to explain it other than I know what a mother like that is. The constant psychological abuse. The heartless stabbing comments one endures year after year. Then to have a child of your own, only to witness your own mother's interactions with THE biggest blessing you could bestow to your parent. To fear for your own childs safety, and to be forced to witness scenarios that you yourself probably endured while too young to understand or even remember. Your biggest conviction becomes to never become your mother! It is heart breaking to admit your own mother has no concern for any life other than her own. Oh yes she buys your kids stuff only to demean you!

Those kind of women osterize your insides. It takes will power to want to continue live from day to day. You wake up in tears
and fall asleep the same way. BUT as a young child SHE'S YOUR only mommy and you love her. It is so hard to grow up with EVIL unless you can reverse the letters and decide to LIVE!

The diary is not needed, and will only prove to be a source of pointless pondering to confuse the jury.
LWOP for KC just may be better than having to deal with CA for years and years to come. Jail is one place CA can't control KC, or make her feel like she should never have been born. I would NOT kill my child but had I had to live with my mom's torture, it would have reached a boiling point, but I didn't have to. RIP mom 5/6/00. As much as I miss my mother! and long for just one more hug even if she was just doing it to impress someone else.... I know she will not affect my kids and hurt them like she did me.

Don't know what my point was. Other than when the diary was written does not change the fact that None of us would want CA as a mom. KC was IMO trying to resolve somethin in her own mind, which does mean she was at least pondering her ideas and questioning herself. She gets 1 brownie point from me for that. plus LWOP.

MOO

 

[Just Jayla]

Yes, it has been sent back out for further testing. Specifically, the ink, I believe. I think they are trying to "date" it. Not sure how all that works.

I totally agree that it should come in if they can get a credible expert to testify that it was written close to 2008, as opposed to 2003-2007.

Which brings up another question - Won't the defense want to run their own battery of tests with their own experts to try to contradict the SA's findings if they do decide to introduce it? Seems we are a little late in the game for sending off evidence to be tested. Scares me.

One thing is for sure, if the State doesn't want to introduce it, the defense sure as heck won't do it. Nothing there could help them.

BBM-Of course, on the slight chance this comes in at all, and it can be shown that the ink is from 2004-2005, one would think the defense might spin a tale around this entry as a mitigating factor in the penalty phase-Look how much KC loved Caylee! She was so excited for Caylee's birth, so happy she made the decision to keep her; KC was cryptic because she wanted to keep it from CA's prying, spying, manipulative eyes...etc, etc.
Though I am certain the FBI can date it, I don't know if it'll be a 2004, 2005 or 2008 outcome or if it will come in at all, though, sooooo....it may be moot.