Casey's Diary Entry for June 21st & Missing Pages #2

[LambChop]

My guess is SA already knows the results and the age of the ink on the page and knew when they released the other information about the diary in discovery. They are just waiting for the formal report from the FBI which I believe they are required to do. May not be anything. If it is dated to 2008....busted. And I'm also guessing JB already is aware when it was written. jmo

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks Intermezzo. For some reason I'm also fascinated with this diary and its potential impact. There are a lot of side issues in this case I'm not all that interested in. Like Joy Wray for example. Meh. I've never spent 10 seconds on that. And some people probably feel the same way about the diary! So I understand the lack of enthusiasm.

And you're right. All the ex boyfriend can say is that they dated and when they dated. So what? I don't think that carries any weight whatsoever. I just don't see it having any weight in the scheme of things. Not compared to something like the ominous "ends justify the means". That's a very dark statement (and it ain't about chocolate or ex high school boyfriends IMO) and I believe the jury will think so too.

Thank you Jenny B.! You just provided me with a fantastic flashback. I spent my ten seconds watching one of her videos when she was dancing and I was on the floor laughing - thinking - can this case get anymore nuts?:floorlaugh:

Whoa! Was I ever wrong.......:banghead:

 

[Chiquita71]

As far as we know, there was no pregnancy before Caylee. If the diary was sold in 2004 only, and the June 21 entry was from 2005, then the entry would be near the end of her pregnancy with Caylee.

There was supposedly a (FAKE IMO) miscarriage with Brandon S. in, I think, Feb 2007 or 2008. Is that maybe the one you were thinking of? I agree that one would not fit any possible year for the June 21 entry. And the situation wouldn't match the message.

Re: whether this will be used in court, the SA has not said anything about what it will use in court. Nothing is in evidence because the trial has not started. Disclosures always include vastly more material than what is ultimately used at trial.

So we have 2 possible dates and interpretations:

-I have no regrets, just a bit worried.
I just want for everything to work out okay.
I completely trust my own judgement.
I know that I made the right decision.
I just hope that the end justifies the means.
I just want to know what the future will hold for me.
I guess I will soon see.
-This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time.
I hope that my happiness will continue to grow.
-I've made new friends that I really like.
I've surrounded myself with good people.
-I am finally happy, let's just hope that it doesn't change.

June 21, 2005 (7+ months into pregnancy with Caylee, but just recently "outed" as pregnant after Rick's wedding): I have no regrets (about unprotected sex, not getting an abortion early, etc.) just a bit worried (about being burdened with a baby and about Jesse maybe questioning the timeline), I know I made the right decision (about keeping the baby and lying to Jesse to get an acceptable baby daddy), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house justifies the means of lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (not for my baby because I am so superficial and narcissistic I don't even realize I'm supposed to be thinking about that), I guess I will soon see (baby's coming in less than 2 months and then we'll see what Jesse does and how the presence of the baby affects the dysfunctional A family dynamics), I'm finally happy (stress from hiding obvious pregnancy, lying about tumors, having no baby daddy finally resolved with the new personality of "wonderful young mother" chosen), new friends (Jesse, Chris S and his "group", ...?)

June 21, 2008 (5 days after killing Caylee): I have no regrets (about killing Caylee) just a bit worried (about getting caught), I know I made the right decision (murder), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting free from motherhood and maybe the A's, and marrying Tony and moving to NYC and maybe being discovered as a singer! justifies the means of murder), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (marriage? singing career? jail?), I guess I will soon see (someone's bound to ask where Caylee is eventually), I'm finally happy (free), new friends (Amy, Tony, etc.)

Respectfully Quoted AZlawyer :cool2:

I think you understood what I was saying when I made no sense at all. Thank you!

Yeah, I was playing devil's advocate and saying I can see that theory that this was about lying to Jesse about the baby being his-I wanted to express that I was giving that thought even though that is not what I think the June 21st entry was about.

It's the "new friends" thing that makes me think this was 2008.

GA: Now in the last two, two and a half months, these same friends that she's had for, since she's been a little one, have been over to our house. They've been out of the picture. Maybe she might call them, but then she tells a lie upon lie, upon something else to get them going in different directions.

AH: ...and knowing Tony and his friends and the kind of music that all of a sudden Casey started listening to, not music that I like.

Maybe it was about breaking up with Jesse? Trusting her own judgement, hope everything turns out okay, and the new friends would fit in.

OCSO Supplemental Report
In February or March of 2007 Casey told Michelle that she had been pregnant with Brandon's child and later had a miscarriage. While pregnant, Casey shared this with Lee who in turn told Cynthia. Michelle said that Cynthia was very upset with this news. Michelle doubts Casey was ever pregnant.

If Michelle is correct, then Casey wasn't pregnant anyway. Yet, she still told Lee she was and knowing her own family dynamic she had to have known Lee would tell "Cynthia." That is my feeling about the theory of the entry being so cryptic was to hide from Cindy that she had decided to keep a baby. Even if this was Caylee she was writing about keeping(which she did), I don't think Casey was afraid of Cindy finding out. Really, if Michelle is correct Casey was never pregnant(before Caylee)so this entry, if about being pregnant would have to be about Caylee.

I reserve the right to be very confused about this subject. :crazy:

ETA: Okay. I am confused. We are not saying this is about the pregnancy that Michelle is talking about? We are saying that she wrote this about her decision to keep Caylee...and marry Jesse. Oh...okay. I have it now. Ignore the OCSO report. This pregnancy was after Caylee, if it was at all, right? I am sorry but the lies confuse me.

:websleuther:

 

[Intermezzo]

The poor Grund family. What a friggin' nightmare. I am so in awe of RG for insisting JG take that paternity test. Now THAT'S a good helicopter parent!

bbm
agreed.
At least Jesse's family was thinking straight...the A's should have asked for a paternity test as well...iirc in his interview,Jesse said Casey did not want him to take one.
As a parent, if it was my son or daughter involved in a pregnancy issue, I would demand a paternity test.
:twocents:

 

[Intermezzo]

Thanks Intermezzo. For some reason I'm also fascinated with this diary and its potential impact. There are a lot of side issues in this case I'm not all that interested in. Like Joy Wray for example. Meh. I've never spent 10 seconds on that. And some people probably feel the same way about the diary! So I understand the lack of enthusiasm.

And you're right. All the ex boyfriend can say is that they dated and when they dated. So what? I don't think that carries any weight whatsoever. I just don't see it having any weight in the scheme of things. Not compared to something like the ominous "ends justify the means". That's a very dark statement (and it ain't about chocolate or ex high school boyfriends IMO) and I believe the jury will think so too.

bbm
perfectly said...that is a very dark statement

 

[gngr~snap]

Beach, if the only SINGLE thing the SA can prove conclusively (and it seems they can) is the diary was not in stores until 2004 I think that's significant on its own. It might be worth presenting that fact to the jury and let them decide for themselves. I don't think they'll be confused. They can ignore it if they want -- if the defense brings a good argument against it then they will deem it meaningless. It won't hurt the prosecution's credibility, I don't think.

The fact that it is dated with a wrong year is big. Enough to show deception and the jury may wonder why. Put that with what is actually written and it's meaningful. I think even if the ink is not dated it could be used effectively.

And also, we don't know how long that diary was in the store for sale, from 2004 until? Maybe it's being sold to this day and was bought on the eve of Caylee's murder. It's a decent theory. The prosecution could make a strong argument if they choose.

Good thing she didn't get caught buying it on camera at Target.
whay did she buy? paper towels,sunglasses, the 08' shirt, beer... mmm gotta go back and look.

 

[jennyb]

Good thing she didn't get caught buying it on camera at Target.
whay did she buy? paper towels,sunglasses, the 08' shirt, beer... mmm gotta go back and look.

Ooh. It was only sold at Dollar Store but ... I wonder if they have cameras and if they keep old tapes in the basement? Probably not but wouldn't that be a kicker!

 

[Aedrys]

As far as we know, there was no pregnancy before Caylee. If the diary was sold in 2004 only, and the June 21 entry was from 2005, then the entry would be near the end of her pregnancy with Caylee.

There was supposedly a (FAKE IMO) miscarriage with Brandon S. in, I think, Feb 2007 or 2008. Is that maybe the one you were thinking of? I agree that one would not fit any possible year for the June 21 entry. And the situation wouldn't match the message.

Re: whether this will be used in court, the SA has not said anything about what it will use in court. Nothing is in evidence because the trial has not started. Disclosures always include vastly more material than what is ultimately used at trial.

So we have 2 possible dates and interpretations:

-I have no regrets, just a bit worried.
I just want for everything to work out okay.
I completely trust my own judgement.
I know that I made the right decision.
I just hope that the end justifies the means.
I just want to know what the future will hold for me.
I guess I will soon see.
-This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time.
I hope that my happiness will continue to grow.
-I've made new friends that I really like.
I've surrounded myself with good people.
-I am finally happy, let's just hope that it doesn't change.

June 21, 2005 (7+ months into pregnancy with Caylee, but just recently "outed" as pregnant after Rick's wedding): I have no regrets (about unprotected sex, not getting an abortion early, etc.) just a bit worried (about being burdened with a baby and about Jesse maybe questioning the timeline), I know I made the right decision (about keeping the baby and lying to Jesse to get an acceptable baby daddy), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house justifies the means of lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (not for my baby because I am so superficial and narcissistic I don't even realize I'm supposed to be thinking about that), I guess I will soon see (baby's coming in less than 2 months and then we'll see what Jesse does and how the presence of the baby affects the dysfunctional A family dynamics), I'm finally happy (stress from hiding obvious pregnancy, lying about tumors, having no baby daddy finally resolved with the new personality of "wonderful young mother" chosen), new friends (Jesse, Chris S and his "group", ...?)

June 21, 2008 (5 days after killing Caylee): I have no regrets (about killing Caylee) just a bit worried (about getting caught), I know I made the right decision (murder), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting free from motherhood and maybe the A's, and marrying Tony and moving to NYC and maybe being discovered as a singer! justifies the means of murder), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (marriage? singing career? jail?), I guess I will soon see (someone's bound to ask where Caylee is eventually), I'm finally happy (free), new friends (Amy, Tony, etc.)

Excellent analysis as usual, AZ!

That "I hope the end justifies the means" line is what does it for me. So she's hoping having a baby justifies her sleeping around with so many men that she doesn't know who the father is? What else could having a baby justify for Casey? Nevermind that babies take all of the attention away from like everyone, attention she starves for and needs for herself from her parents, especially her mom. Casey never wanted responsiblity, so why would she say she hopes the "end justifies the means?" It just doesn't make sense to me that that is about a pregnancy. Having Caylee didn't justify anything for Casey. It didn't make her mom okay with Casey sleeping around, definitely not when she started taking Caylee into various men's beds with her.

The loosest thing I can think of is maybe she was thinking "Well hey, mom, I did sleep around, but look, a cute baby to distract you! I made that just for you! And there's no father in the picture to mess things up either! Aren't you proud of me now?" The problem is that I don't think Casey gave a whit about what Cindy thought of her. Casey was more concerned with her mom continuing to let her lie and steal, basically live her life the way she wanted to. No way was she ever concerned about justifying her pregnancy to her mother, not with telling her mother that to be pregnant, she had to have sex, and letting her not so bright mother make the obvious connection from there, turning the pregnancy into a giant tumor. She never admitted she was pregnant to her family at the wedding, just smirked and let her mother take up for her. That is not someone who was trying to justify her pregnancy to anyone.

No, it better fits better that she's hoping that murdering Caylee (means equalling duct tape, her car, and body dumping) would get things back to the way they were before Caylee came along, that Caylee could just be forgotten, a mistake in the past, and Casey could have her carefree, lying, and stealing life back. Casey's end was her life the way she wanted. That makes a lot more sense when reading that line, "I hope the end justifies the means." Casey was justifying to herself that killing Caylee the way she did was the right thing for her to do, and that she had no other choice but to do so to get her life back.

 

[AZlawyer]

Excellent analysis as usual, AZ!

That "I hope the end justifies the means" line is what does it for me. So she's hoping having a baby justifies her sleeping around with so many men that she doesn't know who the father is? What else could having a baby justify for Casey? Nevermind that babies take all of the attention away from like everyone, attention she starves for and needs for herself from her parents, especially her mom. Casey never wanted responsiblity, so why would she say she hopes the "end justifies the means?" It just doesn't make sense to me that that is about a pregnancy. Having Caylee didn't justify anything for Casey. It didn't make her mom okay with Casey sleeping around, definitely not when she started taking Caylee into various men's beds with her.

The loosest thing I can think of is maybe she was thinking "Well hey, mom, I did sleep around, but look, a cute baby to distract you! I made that just for you! And there's no father in the picture to mess things up either! Aren't you proud of me now?" The problem is that I don't think Casey gave a whit about what Cindy thought of her. Casey was more concerned with her mom continuing to let her lie and steal, basically live her life the way she wanted to. No way was she ever concerned about justifying her pregnancy to her mother, not with telling her mother that to be pregnant, she had to have sex, and letting her not so bright mother make the obvious connection from there, turning the pregnancy into a giant tumor. She never admitted she was pregnant to her family at the wedding, just smirked and let her mother take up for her. That is not someone who was trying to justify her pregnancy to anyone.

No, it better fits better that she's hoping that murdering Caylee (means equalling duct tape, her car, and body dumping) would get things back to the way they were before Caylee came along, that Caylee could just be forgotten, a mistake in the past, and Casey could have her carefree, lying, and stealing life back. Casey's end was her life the way she wanted. That makes a lot more sense when reading that line, "I hope the end justifies the means." Casey was justifying to herself that killing Caylee the way she did was the right thing for her to do, and that she had no other choice but to do so to get her life back.

If it was written on 6/21/05, "I hope the end justifies the means" might have meant "I hope the end--getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house--justifies the means--lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy (or his family if he was really dead) about the baby."

 

[TallyHo]

If it was written on 6/21/05, "I hope the end justifies the means" might have meant "I hope the end--getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house--justifies the means--lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy (or his family if he was really dead) about the baby."

Either way here - 2005 or 2008, bringing Caylee into this world or taking her out of it, this diary entry shows a lack of concern for her daughter's interests. Her only concern is herself and her happiness.

 

[jennyb]

If it was written on 6/21/05, "I hope the end justifies the means" might have meant "I hope the end--getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house--justifies the means--lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy (or his family if he was really dead) about the baby."

Ha! Well, most people would think lying is something to rue and ponder and possibly be cause for pause... but with this person who lies like she breathes... I DON'T THINK SO!

I can't imagine Casey all in a tizzy about telling a fib. And getting all dramatic? The end justifies the means... uh...

 

[jennyb]

No disrespect intended AzLawyer. I just get the giggles thinking of Casey all angst-y about telling a lie.

 

[miss plum]

For me, the most compelling argument against that entry being written in 2005 is the misleading date, '03. KC has a very good reason for lying about the year if it's written in 2008, but not if it's written in 2005. It's not as if she was ever a fiercely private or guarded writer who put a premium on her privacy, her words are everywhere, even written on her shoulder.

 

[Kentjbkent]

For me, the most compelling argument against that entry being written in 2005 is the misleading date, '03. KC has a very good reason for lying about the year if it's written in 2008, but not if it's written in 2005. It's not as if she was ever a fiercely private or guarded writer who put a premium on her privacy, her words are everywhere, even written on her shoulder.

This is a wild shot in the dark but jumped into my thoughts when reading this response...

Have to go back and look at photo of diary again, but is it even slightly possible that the " 8 " was altered into a " 3 "...

 

[Ssejors]

good post jennyb

the state can prove the journal was produced and sold in 2004.
The defense brings in a witness to offer testimony that the ghost writing was about an event in 2003 early 2004.
So if the state decides to introduce it, it would come down to who the juror believes? The manufacturer of the journal or the recollection (possibly foggy recollection) of a witness?

Imo and moving on from that it still would not prove, at least to me, that the june 21 entry did not occur in 2008 though.

Imo this is definitely an intriguing issue

bbm foggy is an understatement. Its been nearly 8 years

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I vote Door Number Two!

Just asking here - I know CA made a dman fool of her self denying the pregnancy at her brother's wedding, but I suspect a competitive/critical environment and not wanting to listen to the backwash by admitting it. Beyond that one scenario, do we have any other information to say for sure that ICA hid her pregnancy, CA ignored it - blah blah.

Were those ultrasound pics we saw all over ICA/Caylee's bedroom walls all late term ones? Do we know for sure or are we just assuming this about the pregnancy. If she was sleeping with Jesse, which surely she was because she was trying to claim him as the father, wouldn't he have noticed the change in her body? If she'd told him the tumor story, surely Jesse would have freaked out, worrying his darling was seriously ill, and insisted on her seeing a doctor? Wouldn't his parents have also? I'm still all :waitasec: WTH about this whole hidden pregnancy issue and wonder what I've missed.

Ohhhhhhh, logical - do we have any good photos of those ultrasound pics? Of course, it might only prove she lied again - but I would love to see the pics and see what I can see and any of our other medical people on board!

 

[Ssejors]

Ohhhhhhh, logical - do we have any good photos of those ultrasound pics? Of course, it might only prove she lied again - but I would love to see the pics and see what I can see and any of our other medical people on board!

Thank you Junkie.. ( i hope thats not offensive to just call you junkie! LOL i kinda like it)


I was thinking the same thing. I had upwards of 11 ultrasounds with my son. There were issues with the pregnancy and he wasnt growing properly so I had one done every few weeks near the end. Eventually he wasnt growing at all so they forced him out of hiding. Anyway, when i read that bit about US pics i thought, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THOSE. I have seen soooo many ultrasounds that I would guess i could give you a decent rough estimate on the age of the fetus.


By the end of my pregnancy, i could tell the US tech what we were looking at and estimate the weight of my guy based on the screen measurements.

 

[Aedrys]

If it was written on 6/21/05, "I hope the end justifies the means" might have meant "I hope the end--getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house--justifies the means--lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy (or his family if he was really dead) about the baby."

It could be that. The thing is, when someone uses a phrase like "I hope the end justifies the means," it's usually something they regret doing, something they know is wrong.

Casey never had a problem lying and stealing, so she wouldn't regret lying to Jesse about or his family about the real baby daddy. Lying comes to her like breathing. Now killing, that would be something to actually give her real pause. Not for long, but an actual pause, something that would make her think and rationalize if what she did was right.

But you're right, this can be argued either way. There's no definite answer, unfortunately, just our gut feelings on it.

Note: Oops, jennyb beat me to the punch! LOL. Great minds think alike!

 

[Ssejors]

The End Justifies the means.

Interesting this Page

 

[Ssejors]

Proverb

the end justifies the means

1. Morally wrong actions are sometimes necessary to achieve morally right outcomes; actions can only be considered morally right or wrong by virtue of the morality of the outcome.


http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_end_justifies_the_means


The end justifies the means

Meaning: If our objective is good, then it doesn't matter if the way we achieve it is bad or wrong or evil.
http://www.englishclub.com/ref/esl/Sayings/Quizzes/Badness/The_end_justifies_the_means_844.htm



So Obviously, the saying The end Justifies the Means, suggests a person KNOWS that what they have done could be construed as morally WRONG.