Casey's Diary Entry for June 21st & Missing Pages #2

[Chiquita71]

I think the idea put forth about the June 21st entry being about her pregnancy is a good one. I can go along with it, until I remember what happened to Caylee. If you start out with this as the 1st evidence, you can say this could be about a lot of things. But, if I were a juror, after hearing the rest of the evidence: I wouldn't think Casey was writing that about anything else but killing Caylee.

If you read that passage from the position that Casey is innocent, then the passage seems like a innocent thoughtful entry, by a young girl who's life is changing. If you read it after having read all the docs and have seen Casey in action-none of that fits.

Casey is neither innocent nor thoughtful.

If it is about her pregnancy, it would be the one before Caylee. So, it can't be that she is thinking of Jesse Grund, and a new life with him. What decision is she "justifying the means" then? IMO, it can fit the other pregnancy if the date is off but not the circumstances. Does that make sense. No. :loser:

Maybe Tony can testify that he saw, or maybe someone at Tony's saw Casey writing in it or saw the diary? Lee said that when he went to Tony's apartment to get Casey's stuff, that everything was packed neatly. He found that odd, he said, because he and Casey are very messy.

It is still my understanding that this IS going to be used in court? Please correct me. I figure the SA has a good reason for bringing this in as evidence.

:twocents:

 

[AZlawyer]

<respectfully snipped>

If it is about her pregnancy, it would be the one before Caylee. So, it can't be that she is thinking of Jesse Grund, and a new life with him. What decision is she "justifying the means" then? IMO, it can fit the other pregnancy if the date is off but not the circumstances. Does that make sense. No. :loser:

<snip>

It is still my understanding that this IS going to be used in court? Please correct me. I figure the SA has a good reason for bringing this in as evidence.

:twocents:

As far as we know, there was no pregnancy before Caylee. If the diary was sold in 2004 only, and the June 21 entry was from 2005, then the entry would be near the end of her pregnancy with Caylee.

There was supposedly a (FAKE IMO) miscarriage with Brandon S. in, I think, Feb 2007 or 2008. Is that maybe the one you were thinking of? I agree that one would not fit any possible year for the June 21 entry. And the situation wouldn't match the message.

Re: whether this will be used in court, the SA has not said anything about what it will use in court. Nothing is in evidence because the trial has not started. Disclosures always include vastly more material than what is ultimately used at trial.

So we have 2 possible dates and interpretations:

-I have no regrets, just a bit worried.
I just want for everything to work out okay.
I completely trust my own judgement.
I know that I made the right decision.
I just hope that the end justifies the means.
I just want to know what the future will hold for me.
I guess I will soon see.
-This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time.
I hope that my happiness will continue to grow.
-I've made new friends that I really like.
I've surrounded myself with good people.
-I am finally happy, let's just hope that it doesn't change.

June 21, 2005 (7+ months into pregnancy with Caylee, but just recently "outed" as pregnant after Rick's wedding): I have no regrets (about unprotected sex, not getting an abortion early, etc.) just a bit worried (about being burdened with a baby and about Jesse maybe questioning the timeline), I know I made the right decision (about keeping the baby and lying to Jesse to get an acceptable baby daddy), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house justifies the means of lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (not for my baby because I am so superficial and narcissistic I don't even realize I'm supposed to be thinking about that), I guess I will soon see (baby's coming in less than 2 months and then we'll see what Jesse does and how the presence of the baby affects the dysfunctional A family dynamics), I'm finally happy (stress from hiding obvious pregnancy, lying about tumors, having no baby daddy finally resolved with the new personality of "wonderful young mother" chosen), new friends (Jesse, Chris S and his "group", ...?)

June 21, 2008 (5 days after killing Caylee): I have no regrets (about killing Caylee) just a bit worried (about getting caught), I know I made the right decision (murder), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting free from motherhood and maybe the A's, and marrying Tony and moving to NYC and maybe being discovered as a singer! justifies the means of murder), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (marriage? singing career? jail?), I guess I will soon see (someone's bound to ask where Caylee is eventually), I'm finally happy (free), new friends (Amy, Tony, etc.)

 

[logicalgirl]

As far as we know, there was no pregnancy before Caylee. If the diary was sold in 2004 only, and the June 21 entry was from 2005, then the entry would be near the end of her pregnancy with Caylee.

There was supposedly a (FAKE IMO) miscarriage with Brandon S. in, I think, Feb 2007 or 2008. Is that maybe the one you were thinking of? I agree that one would not fit any possible year for the June 21 entry. And the situation wouldn't match the message.

Re: whether this will be used in court, the SA has not said anything about what it will use in court. Nothing is in evidence because the trial has not started. Disclosures always include vastly more material than what is ultimately used at trial.

So we have 2 possible dates and interpretations:

-I have no regrets, just a bit worried.
I just want for everything to work out okay.
I completely trust my own judgement.
I know that I made the right decision.
I just hope that the end justifies the means.
I just want to know what the future will hold for me.
I guess I will soon see.
-This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time.
I hope that my happiness will continue to grow.
-I've made new friends that I really like.
I've surrounded myself with good people.
-I am finally happy, let's just hope that it doesn't change.

June 21, 2005 (7+ months into pregnancy with Caylee, but just recently "outed" as pregnant after Rick's wedding): I have no regrets (about unprotected sex, not getting an abortion early, etc.) just a bit worried (about being burdened with a baby and about Jesse maybe questioning the timeline), I know I made the right decision (about keeping the baby and lying to Jesse to get an acceptable baby daddy), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house justifies the means of lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (not for my baby because I am so superficial and narcissistic I don't even realize I'm supposed to be thinking about that), I guess I will soon see (baby's coming in less than 2 months and then we'll see what Jesse does and how the presence of the baby affects the dysfunctional A family dynamics), I'm finally happy (stress from hiding obvious pregnancy, lying about tumors, having no baby daddy finally resolved with the new personality of "wonderful young mother" chosen), new friends (Jesse, Chris S and his "group", ...?)

June 21, 2008 (5 days after killing Caylee): I have no regrets (about killing Caylee) just a bit worried (about getting caught), I know I made the right decision (murder), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting free from motherhood and maybe the A's, and marrying Tony and moving to NYC and maybe being discovered as a singer! justifies the means of murder), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (marriage? singing career? jail?), I guess I will soon see (someone's bound to ask where Caylee is eventually), I'm finally happy (free), new friends (Amy, Tony, etc.)

I vote Door Number Two!

Just asking here - I know CA made a dman fool of her self denying the pregnancy at her brother's wedding, but I suspect a competitive/critical environment and not wanting to listen to the backwash by admitting it. Beyond that one scenario, do we have any other information to say for sure that ICA hid her pregnancy, CA ignored it - blah blah.

Were those ultrasound pics we saw all over ICA/Caylee's bedroom walls all late term ones? Do we know for sure or are we just assuming this about the pregnancy. If she was sleeping with Jesse, which surely she was because she was trying to claim him as the father, wouldn't he have noticed the change in her body? If she'd told him the tumor story, surely Jesse would have freaked out, worrying his darling was seriously ill, and insisted on her seeing a doctor? Wouldn't his parents have also? I'm still all :waitasec: WTH about this whole hidden pregnancy issue and wonder what I've missed.

 

[katydid23]

I don't understand why the state even needs this diary. It seems like it will just muddy the waters and will give Baez something to argue against.
She went 31 days without reporting her child missing. When she was finally confronted by LE she lies her arse off and makes up the nanny fantasy. The child was found in the same spot she used to bury her dead pets and wrapped in a blanket from the Anthony's home.

The diary is not that important imo.

 

[AZlawyer]

I vote Door Number Two!

Just asking here - I know CA made a dman fool of her self denying the pregnancy at her brother's wedding, but I suspect a competitive/critical environment and not wanting to listen to the backwash by admitting it. Beyond that one scenario, do we have any other information to say for sure that ICA hid her pregnancy, CA ignored it - blah blah.

Were those ultrasound pics we saw all over ICA/Caylee's bedroom walls all late term ones? Do we know for sure or are we just assuming this about the pregnancy. If she was sleeping with Jesse, which surely she was because she was trying to claim him as the father, wouldn't he have noticed the change in her body? If she'd told him the tumor story, surely Jesse would have freaked out, worrying his darling was seriously ill, and insisted on her seeing a doctor? Wouldn't his parents have also? I'm still all :waitasec: WTH about this whole hidden pregnancy issue and wonder what I've missed.

The As all said they didn't know until near the end, when KC got the ultrasound. R Grund also said he kept telling Jesse that his girlfriend was pregnant and he would say "no no"...until near the end when he said "oh yeah actually she is apparently pregnant."

 

[logicalgirl]

The As all said they didn't know until near the end, when KC got the ultrasound. R Grund also said he kept telling Jesse that his girlfriend was pregnant and he would say "no no"...until near the end when he said "oh yeah actually she is apparently pregnant."

Okay, thanks, I believe the Grunds, but the Anthony's? Nah!

 

[Intermezzo]

Okay..let's give it a looksie for June 21, 2005 and Casey Preggo theory
Bear with me, I am going off memory..and quick looking around on WS

Casey Pregnant late 2004
Casey meets Jesse in January 2005, they begin dating end of January 2005 (Jesse LE July 23/08) Casey was clingy, latched on to Jesse and was clingy
Casey and Jesse break up in Feb/March 2005..
Richard Grund first met Casey June 2005..he noticed she was pregnant..but she was telling everyone she had female problems
Casey and is she pregnant was the talk of the town at uncle Rick's wedding June 4 2005. According to uncle Rick Casey was taken to the MD in July 2005 and the pregnancy was confirmed, she was 8 months pregnant.
In July 2005, Jesse gets a call from Casey,that he can't take, followed by a text telling him she's pregnant and he's the father, that's it.

 

[mobius99]

I don't understand why the state even needs this diary. It seems like it will just muddy the waters and will give Baez something to argue against.
She went 31 days without reporting her child missing. When she was finally confronted by LE she lies her arse off and makes up the nanny fantasy. The child was found in the same spot she used to bury her dead pets and wrapped in a blanket from the Anthony's home.

The diary is not that important imo.

Frankly, I think SA is just yanking the Defense chain. They put it out there not for its evidentiary value but to see what type of reaction it would invoke. IMHO
A little cat and mouse perhaps?

 

[beach]

I don't understand why the state even needs this diary. It seems like it will just muddy the waters and will give Baez something to argue against.
She went 31 days without reporting her child missing. When she was finally confronted by LE she lies her arse off and makes up the nanny fantasy. The child was found in the same spot she used to bury her dead pets and wrapped in a blanket from the Anthony's home.

The diary is not that important imo.

Completely agree. Unless some forensics come back that can prove conclusively, without a shadow of a doubt, that this was written in 2008, I think the SA should steer clear of it. It is dangerous territory, imo. Could only serve to confuse the jurors and may give them something to doubt.

 

[jennyb]

Frankly, I think SA is just yanking the Defense chain. They put it out there not for its evidentiary value but to see what type of reaction it would invoke. IMHO
A little cat and mouse perhaps?

I really don't think the SA is playing, or wasting their time, just to mess with the defense. They said they're still testing the diary. I think the diary is valuable, very important as a confession, IF it can be proved it was written in '08 and if the ink can be dated.

All big "ifs" at this point, at least from what we know. But I don't think the SA is going to waste the time of the FBI and other forensic types, if they are not interested in the diary. VERY interested.

I know I am!

The defense team plays these cat and mouse games. The SA is truly on track and every moment of their time is used wisely. IMO.

 

[miimaa]

It is important if the entry can be accurately dated. If she wrote it after Caylee was gone...

 

[jennyb]

Completely agree. Unless some forensics come back that can prove conclusively, without a shadow of a doubt, that this was written in 2008, I think the SA should steer clear of it. It is dangerous territory, imo. Could only serve to confuse the jurors and may give them something to doubt.

Beach, if the only SINGLE thing the SA can prove conclusively (and it seems they can) is the diary was not in stores until 2004 I think that's significant on its own. It might be worth presenting that fact to the jury and let them decide for themselves. I don't think they'll be confused. They can ignore it if they want -- if the defense brings a good argument against it then they will deem it meaningless. It won't hurt the prosecution's credibility, I don't think.

The fact that it is dated with a wrong year is big. Enough to show deception and the jury may wonder why. Put that with what is actually written and it's meaningful. I think even if the ink is not dated it could be used effectively.

And also, we don't know how long that diary was in the store for sale, from 2004 until? Maybe it's being sold to this day and was bought on the eve of Caylee's murder. It's a decent theory. The prosecution could make a strong argument if they choose.

 

[logicalgirl]

Okay..let's give it a looksie for June 21, 2005 and Casey Preggo theory
Bear with me, I am going off memory..and quick looking around on WS

Casey Pregnant late 2004
Casey meets Jesse in January 2005, they begin dating end of January 2005 (Jesse LE July 23/08) Casey was clingy, latched on to Jesse and was clingy
Casey and Jesse break up in Feb/March 2005..
Richard Grund first met Casey June 2005..he noticed she was pregnant..but she was telling everyone she had female problems
Casey and is she pregnant was the talk of the town at uncle Rick's wedding June 4 2005. According to uncle Rick Casey was taken to the MD in July 2005 and the pregnancy was confirmed, she was 8 months pregnant.
In July 2005, Jesse gets a call from Casey,that he can't take, followed by a text telling him she's pregnant and he's the father, that's it.

Appreciate the summary Intermezzo - vaguely remember all this but it wasn't high on my interest level with all the other more important stuff flying around all at once at the beginning of this case.

Casey is a small person and was quite slim. When I read her mother didn't notice she was pregnant at seven months, and she was a nurse - I thought - Oh what bunk! As if this mother, who we have seen interfere over and over again would not step in if she thought her daughter had a tumor was too silly to even digest and just set it aside as things my brain doesn't need to remember. So appreciate the reminder summary.

 

[jennyb]

Even if they can't identify the ink I can't BELIEVE they can't say if it was written in '04 or '08. Identifying the ink and dating the ink are two separate things, aren't they? They still have a lot of testing to do. Maybe if they can't identify the ink they won't have 100% certainty on date but an expert can give his opinion on when it was written and back it up with some analysis of comparable inks possibly. I think they're going to use the diary.

But I've been wrong before.

 

[jennyb]

Appreciate the summary Intermezzo - vaguely remember all this but it wasn't high on my interest level with all the other more important stuff flying around all at once at the beginning of this case.

Casey is a small person and was quite slim. When I read her mother didn't notice she was pregnant at seven months, and she was a nurse - I thought - Oh what bunk! As if this mother, who we have seen interfere over and over again would not step in if she thought her daughter had a tumor was too silly to even digest and just set it aside as things my brain doesn't need to remember. So appreciate the reminder summary.

I'm with you. It's ridiculous. Bunk is right.

 

[Intermezzo]

Beach, if the only SINGLE thing the SA can prove conclusively (and it seems they can) is the diary was not in stores until 2004 I think that's significant on its own. It might be worth presenting that fact to the jury and let them decide for themselves. I don't think they'll be confused. They can ignore it if they want -- if the defense brings a good argument against it then they will deem it meaningless. It won't hurt the prosecution's credibility, I don't think.

The fact that it is dated with a wrong year is big. Enough to show deception and the jury may wonder why. Put that with what is actually written and it's meaningful. I think even if the ink is not dated it could be used effectively.

And also, we don't know how long that diary was in the store for sale, from 2004 until? Maybe it's being sold to this day and was bought on the eve of Caylee's murder. It's a decent theory. The prosecution could make a strong argument if they choose.

Good Post JennyB

The State can prove the Journal was produced and sold in 2004.
The Defense brings in a witness to offer testimony that the ghost writing was about an event in 2003 early 2004.
So If the State decides to introduce it, it would come down to who the Juror believes? the Manufacturer of the Journal or the recollection (possibly foggy recollection) of a witness?

IMO and moving on from that it still would not prove, at least to me, that the June 21 entry did not occur in 2008 though.

IMO this is definitely an intriguing issue

 

[jennyb]

Okay..let's give it a looksie for June 21, 2005 and Casey Preggo theory
Bear with me, I am going off memory..and quick looking around on WS

Casey Pregnant late 2004
Casey meets Jesse in January 2005, they begin dating end of January 2005 (Jesse LE July 23/08) Casey was clingy, latched on to Jesse and was clingy
Casey and Jesse break up in Feb/March 2005..
Richard Grund first met Casey June 2005..he noticed she was pregnant..but she was telling everyone she had female problems
Casey and is she pregnant was the talk of the town at uncle Rick's wedding June 4 2005. According to uncle Rick Casey was taken to the MD in July 2005 and the pregnancy was confirmed, she was 8 months pregnant.
In July 2005, Jesse gets a call from Casey,that he can't take, followed by a text telling him she's pregnant and he's the father, that's it.

The poor Grund family. What a friggin' nightmare. I am so in awe of RG for insisting JG take that paternity test. Now THAT'S a good helicopter parent!

 

[jennyb]

Good Post JennyB

The State can prove the Journal was produced and sold in 2004.
The Defense brings in a witness to offer testimony that the ghost writing was about an event in 2003 early 2004.
So If the State decides to introduce it, it would come down to who the Juror believes? the Manufacturer of the Journal or the recollection (possibly foggy recollection) of a witness?

IMO and moving on from that it still would not prove, at least to me, that the June 21 entry did not occur in 2008 though.

IMO this is definitely an intriguing issue

Thanks Intermezzo. For some reason I'm also fascinated with this diary and its potential impact. There are a lot of side issues in this case I'm not all that interested in. Like Joy Wray for example. Meh. I've never spent 10 seconds on that. And some people probably feel the same way about the diary! So I understand the lack of enthusiasm.

And you're right. All the ex boyfriend can say is that they dated and when they dated. So what? I don't think that carries any weight whatsoever. I just don't see it having any weight in the scheme of things. Not compared to something like the ominous "ends justify the means". That's a very dark statement (and it ain't about chocolate or ex high school boyfriends IMO) and I believe the jury will think so too.

 

[Sterling]

As far as we know, there was no pregnancy before Caylee. If the diary was sold in 2004 only, and the June 21 entry was from 2005, then the entry would be near the end of her pregnancy with Caylee.

There was supposedly a (FAKE IMO) miscarriage with Brandon S. in, I think, Feb 2007 or 2008. Is that maybe the one you were thinking of? I agree that one would not fit any possible year for the June 21 entry. And the situation wouldn't match the message.

Re: whether this will be used in court, the SA has not said anything about what it will use in court. Nothing is in evidence because the trial has not started. Disclosures always include vastly more material than what is ultimately used at trial.

So we have 2 possible dates and interpretations:

-I have no regrets, just a bit worried.
I just want for everything to work out okay.
I completely trust my own judgement.
I know that I made the right decision.
I just hope that the end justifies the means.
I just want to know what the future will hold for me.
I guess I will soon see.
-This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time.
I hope that my happiness will continue to grow.
-I've made new friends that I really like.
I've surrounded myself with good people.
-I am finally happy, let's just hope that it doesn't change.

June 21, 2005 (7+ months into pregnancy with Caylee, but just recently "outed" as pregnant after Rick's wedding): I have no regrets (about unprotected sex, not getting an abortion early, etc.) just a bit worried (about being burdened with a baby and about Jesse maybe questioning the timeline), I know I made the right decision (about keeping the baby and lying to Jesse to get an acceptable baby daddy), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting an acceptable baby daddy and getting out of the A. house justifies the means of lying to Jesse and not telling the real baby daddy), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (not for my baby because I am so superficial and narcissistic I don't even realize I'm supposed to be thinking about that), I guess I will soon see (baby's coming in less than 2 months and then we'll see what Jesse does and how the presence of the baby affects the dysfunctional A family dynamics), I'm finally happy (stress from hiding obvious pregnancy, lying about tumors, having no baby daddy finally resolved with the new personality of "wonderful young mother" chosen), new friends (Jesse, Chris S and his "group", ...?)

June 21, 2008 (5 days after killing Caylee): I have no regrets (about killing Caylee) just a bit worried (about getting caught), I know I made the right decision (murder), just hope the end justifies the means (hope the end of getting free from motherhood and maybe the A's, and marrying Tony and moving to NYC and maybe being discovered as a singer! justifies the means of murder), I just want to know what the future will hold for me (marriage? singing career? jail?), I guess I will soon see (someone's bound to ask where Caylee is eventually), I'm finally happy (free), new friends (Amy, Tony, etc.)

Beautiful example that it takes more words to tell a lie!

 

[Tuba]

Even if this never goes to the jury, it ripples right across the chimes for me because the state of mind is so identical to La Bella Vita tattoo, the emails and text messages of late June and July. Same ruminations. Not so much (is true) of the on-line Diary of Days entries, which are morbid but also outpictured in various graphics as the other statements are not.