The Verdict is In - post your thoughts here

[cody100]

I'm goiing to say goodbye to you for this topic, NCSU. Although we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this one, we've managed to be friendly and cordial. :great: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. We obviously have very different views on marriage and what constitutes a partnership, a respect for each other as life partners. I asked my husband, the math major, how much 15 ironman competitions, costing 2000 to 2500 dollars a pop, over a two year period, added up to. Let me tell you, it was a whopping amount. We come from different generations, you and us. I remember once when our kids were all young, three under the age of six, catching my husband, the engineer, sticking a couple playing cards from a deck, into his shoe, because the sole had a hole worn into it, and he didn't want to spend the money on new shoes yet. Kids probably needed things, our priorities were far different in those days then many are today. This 300 bucks obviously sticks in your craw. Now me, hell, for a guy making 120,000 a year, doesn't sound like that much when one considers all the 'incidentals' involved in raising kids. Kids clothes, shoes, school supplies/snacks for school, lunches, things from the drug store, etc. I usually buy my grandsons new shoes each season. It's nothing to drop $150 bucks on shoes for three children. Everything adds up. Prescriptions, deodorant, tampons, toothpaste, etc. Let me put it this way, Brad expected his wife and two children to live on the same amount of money he spent on himself and his iron man competitions for one year. Now I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem right to me. JMO

Why in the world is the 300 dollars a week for groceries and spending money such a big discussion? They were heavily in debt (both contributed to it), and BC put them on a budget to try to get their bills and credit cards paid off (both of them contributed to this debt). I hardly think this had anything whatsoever to do with his being controlling. It does seem that NC did not like this, but anyone responsible would have done the same thing. These folks were heavily in debt. I will never see this as abusive to NC. Quite frankly I have said many times, I would welcome someone giving me that much on a weekly basis. Surely this isn't the only thing that can be used to support the BDI camp. IMO.

 

[Madeleine74]

Has anyone followed a case in the past where a defendant was found guilty, gone to jail, and then has had such a vigorous defense continue by posters/trial watchers continue after the verdict? If so who is/was the defendant? And then has that defendant ever won an appeal?

To name just a few, and none of these convictions have been overturned:

- Charles Manson (CA)
- David Westerfield (CA)
- Scott Peterson (CA)
- Darlie Routier (TX)

There are people who have literally spent years (and in the case of Manson, decades) arguing these and many other cases.

 

[cody100]

And the Rentz family lost their daughter, forever. Yet they were cordial, even though they believed that the coopers son murdered her. The end of the trial appeared to be extremely emotional for Nancy's mother, dad, sister & brother. I can say from experience, even though something *ended*, even years before, that final acceptance, that final moment of realizing something is over, has ended, can be very traumatic. IMO, the Rentz family exibited exemplory behavior. MOO

Yes, NC's family was very cordial, and my heart goes out to them. But, BC's family had to be devestated at the verdict so my heart goes out to them. They had nothing to do with NC's murder. Both families have suffered tremendous loss. I do not think the Rentzes meant any harm in reaching out to the Coopers. I do not think the Coopers were rude. They simply are by their own admission a very private family. Nothing at all wrong with that. We have beat this subject to death, but my :twocents:

 

[Madeleine74]

The ironic thing about continuing to argue a defendant's innocence on a chat forum is that the audience being reached aren't the judges or the appeal boards or the prison system or the parole boards. Arguing a defendant's case on WS or any other chat forum doesn't change the outcome of a conviction.

It takes money and legal resources to appeal a conviction. Perhaps those who feel a travesty of justice has occurred will put their money where their mouth is. Give, give till it hurts. :twocents:

 

[cody100]

The ironic thing about continuing to argue a defendant's innocence on a chat forum is that the audience being reached aren't the judges or the appeal boards or the prison system or the parole boards. Arguing a defendant's case on WS or any other chat forum doesn't change the outcome of a conviction.

It takes money and legal resources to appeal a conviction. Perhaps those who feel a travesty of justice has occurred will put their money where their mouth is. Give, give till it hurts. :twocents:

Who is arguing his innocence? The BDI folks think he is guilty, the BDDI folks think he is innocent. The rest are discussing the finer points of the trial. I have no idea whether he is guilty or innocent. Doesn't matter, the jury convicted him. However, the prevailing arguments are how the trial was conducted. I think anyone other than the BDI folks know exactly where to put their money where their mouth is. The BDI folks should be happy and don't need to discuss or defend anything until something progresses on appeal. This is a very sophisticated and savvy group discussing their viewpoints of the trial. Sometimes the topics are not really relevant, but after all it is a forum for discussing the outcome of the trial. MOO This trial more so than most others has garnered a tremendous outpouring of contrasting thoughts and opinions. We should welcome that. My:twocents: again.

 

[Madeleine74]

My comments are more general, about people who spend years arguing a case on a chat forum--it was a continuation of my previous post, answering Tipstaff's question.

But feel free to take it personally or any which way you'd like. I'm simply stating the fact that years of people posting about Westerfield, Peterson, et. al. have not changed those cases.

 

[ncsu95]

I'm goiing to say goodbye to you for this topic, NCSU. Although we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this one, we've managed to be friendly and cordial. :great: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. We obviously have very different views on marriage and what constitutes a partnership, a respect for each other as life partners. I asked my husband, the math major, how much 15 ironman competitions, costing 2000 to 2500 dollars a pop, over a two year period, added up to. Let me tell you, it was a whopping amount. We come from different generations, you and us. I remember once when our kids were all young, three under the age of six, catching my husband, the engineer, sticking a couple playing cards from a deck, into his shoe, because the sole had a hole worn into it, and he didn't want to spend the money on new shoes yet. Kids probably needed things, our priorities were far different in those days then many are today. This 300 bucks obviously sticks in your craw. Now me, hell, for a guy making 120,000 a year, doesn't sound like that much when one considers all the 'incidentals' involved in raising kids. Kids clothes, shoes, school supplies/snacks for school, lunches, things from the drug store, etc. I usually buy my grandsons new shoes each season. It's nothing to drop $150 bucks on shoes for three children. Everything adds up. Prescriptions, deodorant, tampons, toothpaste, etc. Let me put it this way, Brad expected his wife and two children to live on the same amount of money he spent on himself and his iron man competitions for one year. Now I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem right to me. JMO

Just to be clear. My wife is a stay at home, home-schooling mom. We live on a written budget that we both agree to. We use cash and don't own a credit card (we do have debit cards). I don't have money. We have money. We agree how that money will be spent. Brad Cooper and Nancy Cooper were in a failed marriage. At the point they were in spring of 2008, this was no longer a marriage, nor a partnership (and hadn't been for some time). It had no resemblance of a marriage by spring of 2008. Regardless of who got them to that point financially (and both of them did in my opinion), they were near financial ruin. So, since they were clearly headed to divorce, getting spending under control at that point was a responsible thing to do in my opinion. Much too later obviously. But given the state of THEIR marriage, I don't find it unreasonable. But please don't begin to think that it is how I live my marriage.


ETA: I have no idea where you got this notion that he did 15 ironman competitions. He didn't. He has done 2. Here is a link to all of his races (which doesn't include the Arizona ironman for some reason):

http://www.athlinks.com/myresultsadv.aspx?rid=18014460

Most of these were local to NC and don't cost anywhere near what you are saying.

 

[ncsu95]

And the Rentz family lost their daughter, forever. Yet they were cordial, even though they believed that the coopers son murdered her. The end of the trial appeared to be extremely emotional for Nancy's mother, dad, sister & brother. I can say from experience, even though something *ended*, even years before, that final acceptance, that final moment of realizing something is over, has ended, can be very traumatic. IMO, the Rentz family exibited exemplory behavior. MOO

Mr. and Mrs. Rentz have handled themselves with class for the past nearly 3 years they have been in the public eye. I am very impressed with the dignity that they both exhibit and have exhibited throughout.

 

[ncsu95]

The ironic thing about continuing to argue a defendant's innocence on a chat forum is that the audience being reached aren't the judges or the appeal boards or the prison system or the parole boards. Arguing a defendant's case on WS or any other chat forum doesn't change the outcome of a conviction.

It takes money and legal resources to appeal a conviction. Perhaps those who feel a travesty of justice has occurred will put their money where their mouth is. Give, give till it hurts. :twocents:

Neither does arguing their guilt...but it sure has been "entertaining" the last couple of months. I have enjoyed the debates, arguments, discussions, disections, etc. that have gone on here in this forum.

 

[cody100]

My comments are more general, about people who spend years arguing a case on a chat forum--it was a continuation of my previous post, answering Tipstaff's question.

But feel free to take it personally or any which way you'd like. I'm simply stating the fact that years of people posting about Westerfield, Peterson, et. al. have not changed those cases.

Thank you for your clarification. I did not take it personally at all because it really isn't applicable to me anyway. I try to treat everyone with respect, but sometimes it is really hard to do. In spite of many snide remarks, I never get nasty. I just state the facts as I see them with IMO always stated. I regret that you might take my statements personally.

 

[cody100]

Neither does arguing their guilt...but it sure has been "entertaining" the last couple of months. I have enjoyed the debates, arguments, discussions, disections, etc. that have gone on here in this forum.

Unlike many, you have always been cordial and friendly with great ideas. I admire how you and your wife handle the money. It has amazed me how many assumptions get made on this site. But, I knew those comments were not right. You had covered those points in prior posts. I hope you will join us on JY and other cases. It is a real pleasure to know you NCSU.

 

[cody100]

Neither does arguing their guilt...but it sure has been "entertaining" the last couple of months. I have enjoyed the debates, arguments, discussions, disections, etc. that have gone on here in this forum.

I am amazed that these discussions are still flowing so freely. I guess we are all hooked.

 

[otto]

Some people need time to process the verdict, others hear it and they're off to the next trial. There are some questions about judicial process in this case that don't normally arise. That means that processing the information also means accepting that there were some irregularities in the judicial process ... more time to process the information.

Personally, I'm also interested in knowing anything that Brad did that demonstrates that Brad was a controlling husband who subjected his wife to domestic violence throughout the marriage (not only after he was served with a separation agreement draft).

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Some people need time to process the verdict, others hear it and they're off to the next trial. There are some questions about judicial process in this case that don't normally arise. That means that processing the information also means accepting that there were some irregularities in the judicial process ... more time to process the information.

Personally, I'm also interested in knowing anything that Brad did that demonstrates that Brad was a controlling husband who subjected his wife to domestic violence throughout the marriage (not only after he was served with a separation agreement draft).

Hi otto. First up - domestic abuse is what's been clarified.

However, I feel that whatever is put forward, will be defended here for blue-eyed Brad as "being normal and valid". Excuses will be counteracted with (examples) "well - Nancy did" ... or "that wasn't in testimony" and "so what - what's wrong with that" .... and "oh, no he did not" - to "he didn't say that" .... but we watched 7 hours of BS from that man's mouth after watching BS from the day NC went missing .... to the BS in court. Why lie? Why excuse everything he did - when we know there is no such thing as coincidence in murder.

His lengthy lies .... are *fact*.

That's the paradigm with the rebuttals here. "That was not in testimony". Yet everything that was in testimony got Brad Cooper convicted. So folk rely or refer to court testimony and proceedings as fact - yet deny the outcome and verdict :waitasec:

Why didn't he organise NC's greencard 7 years earlier?

I rather think we should investigate his head, character and psychopathy. That may indeed provide far richer, more appropriate and valuable answers to your question, IMO.

Because his form of domestic abuse and control was a definitely mind thing - resulting in aggression.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

The ironic thing about continuing to argue a defendant's innocence on a chat forum is that the audience being reached aren't the judges or the appeal boards or the prison system or the parole boards. Arguing a defendant's case on WS or any other chat forum doesn't change the outcome of a conviction.

It takes money and legal resources to appeal a conviction. Perhaps those who feel a travesty of justice has occurred will put their money where their mouth is. Give, give till it hurts. :twocents:

Hi Madeleine!

There may be *one* gain from post-mortem debate. Kurtz may have to refer here to assist in his appeal ... in real time....

Concur with all your posts .... Brad ain't coming out .... anytime. He is where he belongs. Some may be in shock and denial - after the anger has settled. I know because when my father was diagnosed with cancer years ago he took it bad.

He was angry; bitter and afraid, too. Sought blame. Then ... and this worried us .... he later blamed the local supermarket food (high-quality, high-end pre-packaged meals - hugely nutritious and great quality.) He'd relied on that chain for their well-known excellent meals for years and years. Was his faves. Yet suddenly their food over the years - what - poisoned him? He was bitter for a long time, and we could do nothing but hear him blame ... the world. I've lived with a controlling person in more ways than I care to describe here. I recognize it all - from the nuances to the screamingly obvious in nano-seconds.

I could never say to him, at that stage "Dad ... you drank most of your life away. You don't even know what you did to us. You had life and at least 50% of it is a blur to you. This is your fault; your doing. It's fact. Don't attack the world because of your mistakes."

Instead, we said "No, dad - but let's rather invest in these twilight months in family union and share with you...."

And that, Madeleine, is what I see happening here. Writing's on the wall, but some just don't want to read it.

 

[otto]

When Nancy was telling so many people such personal details about her life, was that her cry for help, or a nannerism? The defense has presented this as a nannerism, but in reality, people like Laci Peterson didn't say a word, neither did Michelle Young. Nancy Cooper said something but it made no difference, she was too late in deciding to leave.

 

[otto]

Hi otto. First up - domestic abuse is what's been clarified.

However, I feel that whatever is put forward, will be defended here for blue-eyed Brad as "being normal and valid". Excuses will be counteracted with (examples) "well - Nancy did" ... or "that wasn't in testimony" and "so what - what's wrong with that" .... and "oh, no he did not" - to "he didn't say that" .... but we watched 7 hours of BS from that man's mouth after watching BS from the day NC went missing .... to the BS in court. Why lie? Why excuse everything he did - when we know there is no such thing as coincidence in murder.

His lengthy lies .... are *fact*.

That's the paradigm with the rebuttals here. "That was not in testimony". Yet everything that was in testimony got Brad Cooper convicted. So folk rely or refer to court testimony and proceedings as fact - yet deny the outcome and verdict :waitasec:

Why didn't he organise NC's greencard 7 years earlier?

I rather think we should investigate his head, character and psychopathy. That may indeed provide far richer, more appropriate and valuable answers to your question, IMO.

Because his form of domestic abuse and control was a definitely mind thing - resulting in aggression.

I have to admit I have not listened to Brad's custody related Examination for Discovery sessions other than skimming.

A "mind thing" = psychological abuse including verbal abuse? Prior to April, were there examples of psychological abuse? After April, we have come to understand that "financial abuse" has been alleged because of the newly established divorce budget.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

It took 8 clicks to zoom all the way in to that cul-de-sac.
The 40 files collected show all 8 clicks.
You would attribute that to a typo?

That's even less reasonable than to suggest that a CPD officer decided on his own to frame a citizen to support the town council's mission to make people think Cary is a safe place to live.

If this was a boxing match - not just "1 Up" to you.

Knock Out in the first round! Thank you, macd :clap:

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I have to admit I have not listened to Brad's custody related Examination for Discovery sessions other than skimming.

A "mind thing" = psychological abuse including verbal abuse? Prior to April, were there examples of psychological abuse? After April, we have come to understand that "financial abuse" has been alleged because of the newly established divorce budget.

Hi otto.

Firstly, I strongly suggest you urgently get those depo tapes, popcorn, flasks of hot chocolate ... and sit back and enjoy the evening's entertainment. It will floor you just as it did us, the majority of the world ... NC's family ... and a jury of 12 of his peers.

Secondly, you asked for examples of control prior to April 08.

I replied:

Why did he not sort her Greencard out when they arrived in USA? So that NC could work, feel at home - and not be an alien to the society he brought her to for 7 plus years?

Emphasis on ... ALIEN.

 

[otto]

It took 8 clicks to zoom all the way in to that cul-de-sac.
The 40 files collected show all 8 clicks.
You would attribute that to a typo?

That's even less reasonable than to suggest that a CPD officer decided on his own to frame a citizen to support the town council's mission to make people think Cary is a safe place to live.

Were those 40 files .bmp or .cur? Out of curiosity, is the .cur like a file assembled from vector based .bmp images?

We can't forget that there has been some career toppling monkey business in the justice department in N.C. in the last couple of years.