TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #3

[Hexe]

First let me say that as most relationships, I doubt either of them are without fault.

Now, it appears you are equating mistrust with abuse.

No, I don't. But so extensive lack of trust may be a sign of an abuse.

Consider the evidence.

Okay.

Look at her past pattern. In a dispute, LE was called. I don't recall any of those calls to LE resulted in an abuse charge.

What proves nothing. I know some "model couples" with a living hell hidden behind the closed door.

No abuse reported, her leaving to go to AL, her going back to Signal Mountian, her dropping the kids off at the house (presumably alone) and not calling LE indicates that she was not in fear of abuse.

That does indicate she didn't feel physically endangered. Don't forget though that abuse has many faces. Physical violence is only one of them.

Those things could indicate an unstable person.

Don't think so. It rather seems she tried to secure herself a safe way out of that marriage, placing different necessary things out of her husband's reach. This is pretty coherent and logical behaviour.

If she was in fear for her life, I would expect her to secure the children in a safe place and not the items that she did.

Being abused doesn't always equate to be in fear for your life. This one I know from my own experience.

If she in fear for her life, I would expect her not to return the kids to Signal Mountain. If she was in fear for her life, I would expect her to call LE while in AL.

I don't think she was in fear for her life or thought that her kids were in danger. But lack of such fear doesn't exclude abuse. And I seriously think that she might come back to Signal Mountain because of something her husband did or might do. Pure speculation, of cours, but fits the facts.

Her actions and a lack of finding the Jeep, points to a self disappearance.

Well, if I want to disappear I would take my driver's license and credit cards with me. That would make this dissapearance a lot easier.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Am still catching up..

But my theory at this point is that MP made contact with Gail in those early morning hours with "something" that would ensure her immediately packing up the kids and getting back to Signal just ASAP.. IMO he quite likely arranged to have Gail meet him elsewhere(perhaps near base of the Mtn) and without the kids saying that the meeting would be brief but that he didn't want the kids any further exposed to their marital issues than they already had to be.. IMO all planned out to make it seem as tho Gail simply drove off from the house leaving her kids alone and abandoned them.. And then as we know daddy to the rescue who swoops in to rescue the abandoned children(10mins later)..

Just as MP has this PI hired it's MO that he quite likely hired someone to do the dirty work of Gails disappearance. IMO this seems to be his M.O...

I do hope we soon get clarification about what cloudajo found in the comment section a couple pages back.. IMO most likely true and only matter of time before it all starts to unfold and the sad truth comes to light...

 

[Pearl*]

I am interesting to see your evidence based thoughts on each of these.

Oh, my. That would be a huge job to compile all the facts of the case. Some have been compiled through the timeline, and others are contained in the many media links. I might add that circumstantial evidence also does qualify as evidence and has a rightful place on the list. Sam Parker was convicted based on a significant body of circumstantial evidence as I recall.

If I had the time and thought it would help, I would go through all the links and make a bulleted list of all facts of the case, but I have a day job and many home-related chores as well, some of which are demanding my attention at the moment, so I will have to go offline for the night shortly.

I think it would be very helpful, however, if you had the time and were willing to make such a list of relevant facts by going back through all the articles. Maybe that will help us as we all search for answers.

The one goal we all have in common, whatever our various viewpoints, is to FIND GAIL! I would appreciate very much that factual list to help see what we might have missed and I'm glad you thought of that. Thanks!

 

[Columbo]

Oh, my. That would be a huge job to compile all the facts of the case. Some have been compiled through the timeline, and others are contained in the many media links. I might add that circumstantial evidence also does qualify as evidence and has a rightful place on the list. Sam Parker was convicted based on a significant body of circumstantial evidence as I recall.

If I had the time and thought it would help, I would go through all the links and make a bulleted list of all facts of the case, but I have a day job and many home-related chores as well, some of which are demanding my attention at the moment, so I will have to go offline for the night shortly.

I think it would be very helpful, however, if you had the time and were willing to make such a list of relevant facts by going back through all the articles. Maybe that will help us as we all search for answers.

The one goal we all have in common, whatever our various viewpoints, is to FIND GAIL! I would appreciate very much that factual list to help see what we might have missed and I'm glad you thought of that. Thanks!

Pearl*, thank you for saying so very well what I am sure most of us have been thinking. :clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[SmoothOperator]

^^^^ pearl and columbo's posts above^^^^^

Bravo and lots of applause(sorry can't post smileys well while via mobile)

But you both stated what many are thinking in a most polite and tactful way.. For that I had to post a Thanks.. The little blue button just wouldn't suffice..

The links, as well as the sad and cold facts are all here in Gail's 3 Threads.. IMO there is a difference in being asked to catch someone up with a posting of a couple of links and a quick nutshell of a case thus far.. That is completely different than a demanding of links post after post after post and none of them being good enough when members go out of their way to attempt to post what has been learned over nearly an entire months time.. It's just unnecessary among other things..

Thanks to you both and hopefully very soon we will all have the answers that will bring Gail home to her kids...

 

[ThoughtFox]

Yes, she may have done the right thing or she may not have. We cannot tell because we do not know the true circumstances.

You missed my point that she would not place herself in a situation that involved more abuse. That, from an objective point of view, could be used to consider that the relationship was not abusive.

I do not know Susie Button or her level of trustworthiness. Do you?

Look, he may very well been having an afair. That is not uncommon in a relationship falling apart. If he was having an affair, it may from the relationship falling apart or the cause of it. I strongly disagree that having an affair is excusable. I, also, strongly disagree that having an affair makes you an abusive person or a killer.

All that said, at this point, we cannot prove he was having an affair.

My two cents: :twocents:

He may not be a killer, we don't know. We can't prove abuse.

However, in some of his language about his missing wife, he is not respectful and implies she is mentally ill. He basically called her a thief of his possessions, and told the newspaper he was worried about himself having to take care of the kids. "Imagine what this is like for me," he said.

Some people don't believe he is the victim in all this, no matter how he spins it. For one thing, he doesn't act like a victim.

He has lawyered up completely, and gotten a restraining order. At the same time, his letter to Arlene in Alabama implies that he is still very much married to Gail and her property belongs to him, therefore it must be returned to him, even though Gail had a right to give her friend copies of her divorce papers.

Contradiction.

He made a statement at a press conference that he is searching for Gail with a PI, but then it turns out the PI was sent to tell Arlene, the leader of the civilian search in Wetumpka and a good friend of Gail's - to back off and "stop interfering." He also accused her of trespassing, so he is once again the victim.

Contradiction.

He wouldn't let Gail's siblings talk to the kids, and that's just not right.

He hasn't denied the affair. His lawyer, who seems quite verbal ordinarily, has never denied the affair and they have had ample opportunities.

They have never denied the accusations of abuse or explained why Gail might have had a black eye. Why not?

Abuse or not, something ain't right.

 

[Willow57]

For some reason I just have this gut feeling that GP( angry,upset and frustrated) probably had an accident and her and her Jeep are somewhere submerged, down a ravine or hidden in deep brush; etc. Whatever the case-it is sad!

 

[ThoughtFox]

He could have done many things of course. Just as she could have.

Click the link in my signature and you can read all the media links in this case. That's what we talk about here ~ those are considered the facts, and there is indeed evidence within those facts.

But we are also allowed to speculate because, hey, it's a free country. We aren't doing anything different than the hundreds of people who live all around Signal Mt. and Wetumpka, AL. This is a public story. Can't put the privacy back in a bottle now.

 

[ThoughtFox]

He needed to get away from a tense time in their relationship (see him walking away from the Jeep) and decided to stay at a hotel.

One of those hotels mentioned is very close to where he works, and everyone from the Chattanooga area can attest to that.

Can you prove that the receipts were for that particular night? I thought he walked home on Signal Mountain. Then he drove down to Chatt and checked into a hotel?

ETA: That makes even less sense, since the problem was that Gail wouldn't give him the Jeep keys. How would he drive down the mountain?

I thought on two occasions, it was Gail who left the house. Once to go stay with her mother-in-law down the mountain. Another time to take the kids to Alabama.

The hotels are not connected to any of that, as far as I know. He got to stay at the house, while she left.

And besides that the neighbor was talking about a time previous when Gail either told her about or showed her the receipts, prior to all those 911 calls (evidence too).

For all we know, the receipts were for times when he was supposedly out of town, or they were at times in the middle of the day. Otherwise, why would Gail be suspicious?

 

[Willow57]

GP's husband-Matt has stated that GP was suffering mental problems and was on some forms of prescription medication for that. I know some people, especially people who didn't live in the house with them has stated that that was not true-couldn't be true. I'm kind of remembering the old clique "that no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors". In the scheme of things I'm feeling that -that information may be true-before the husband gave that information he had to have known LE would confirm that. I don't see him as an unintelligent person. you never know though.....

 

[ThoughtFox]

GP's husband-Matt has stated that GP was suffering mental problems and was on some forms of prescription medication for that. I know some people, especially people who didn't live in the house with them has stated that that was not true-couldn't be true. I'm kind of remembering the old clique "that no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors". In the scheme of things I'm feeling that -that information may be true-before the husband gave that information he had to have known LE would confirm that. I don't see him as an unintelligent person. you never know though.....

But LE didn't confirm it, and they still haven't confirmed it.

In fact, the only official statement about her mental illness is this:

Signal Mountain police Detective James Tizzio said his investigation had uncovered no psychiatric issues with the missing woman.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/07/police-searching-missing-signal-woman/?local

 

[believe09]

I like that the posting here is bringing the focus back to Gail, the woman who is missing under puzzling circumstances. I am thrilled the LE is in high gear looking in the waterways and on the mountain for evidence of her.

I would be remiss if I werent a little sad that they are looking on the mountain and the surrounding areas...it seems as if there hasnt been compelling evidence that she is on a sandy beach somewhere pulling herself together.

 

[glorias]

I am not dissagreeing with you but I would like to see a link where LE has found him in a contridiction.

There are several examples that have been discussed multiple times within these threads. You're asking about "a" contradiction and I don't know what specifically you want. Which contradiction? Do you want more info than what has already been posted?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: MPs statement about GP being unstable and on preacription meds.

Gail very well and IMO quite likely may have been on a prescription medication.. A pending divorce.. Possibly finding about an affair(s).. 911 calls resulting in LE giving her the numbers to safe houses to go to.. Etc..etc .. The list truly goes on and on and I would say that not only would it be likely that she may have been on a prescription med such as zoloft, paxil but I'd also say that it showed that she was of stable mind in going to a doctor to seek help through such an extremely high anxiety time in her life.. So that she could keep her sanity for the best interest of her children..

Her being on prescription meds of this type would in no way whatsoever be indicative at all of Gail being unstable. As I stated just the opposite. If being on anti despressants were indicative of someone being unstable then a huge huge percentage of Americans would be "unstable"..
The meds do not in any way support or prove instability..

 

[lalalu]

From what I know, working in a health care related industry, mental health records are very protected. Police may be able to comment on whether GP has ever had any law enforcement encounters related to suspected mental illness (none apparently) but they cannot delve into her medical records and then make public comments, so the fact that LE stated no issues were found is not from a health care standpoint and does not confirm her actual mental health status.

 

[fbx]

Sorry to delurk suddenly, but I have a question about the phone calls.

If it's true Diane called Gail at the lake house at 6:30 am, do you think it's possible that the phone call itself was what got Gail and the kids up and out of the house by 7 am (in order to be back at SM by noon)? I wonder what that phone call was about?

ETA: if I called my sister (or she called me) at that ridiculous hour of the morning it would have to be important!

6:30 is not so ridiculous....it's a good time for calls infact, since the kids have just left for school and work's not yet begun...I know it was the weekend, but 6:30 calls are not too unusual since it's habitually a good time to catch someone in.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I like that the posting here is bringing the focus back to Gail, the woman who is missing under puzzling circumstances. I am thrilled the LE is in high gear looking in the waterways and on the mountain for evidence of her.

I would be remiss if I werent a little sad that they are looking on the mountain and the surrounding areas...it seems as if there hasnt been compelling evidence that she is on a sandy beach somewhere pulling herself together.

They were using high-tech radar, and they said they were ruling out objects they had seen before that had lots of debris and logs on top of them. They also showed a diver going into the shallows near the road.

WRCB: River Search for Missing Woman's Jeep Turns Up Nothing (With Video)

CHATTANOOGA, HAMILTON COUNTY, TN (WRCB) – Nearly a month into the search for 44 year-old Gail Palmgren, investigators are looking for clues anywhere they can find them.

"It's not that we've had any particular information that the vehicle is here," said Sheriff's Department Spokesperson Janice Atkinson, "but you have to go and do this to be sure."

Each year, vehicles are pulled from a portion of the Tennessee River referred to as Suck Creek.

It sits at the foot of Signal Mountain, where Palmgren was last seen, so investigators say it was worth searching.

"We didn't see anything we could dive for," said dive team member John Scruggs, "if there was anything here we hadn't seen in the past we would dive it, but right now we're just looking at wet rock."

 

[JBean]

GP's husband-Matt has stated that GP was suffering mental problems and was on some forms of prescription medication for that. I know some people, especially people who didn't live in the house with them has stated that that was not true-couldn't be true. I'm kind of remembering the old clique "that no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors". In the scheme of things I'm feeling that -that information may be true-before the husband gave that information he had to have known LE would confirm that. I don't see him as an unintelligent person. you never know though.....

As for the prescriptions meds, she certainly could be on some and Matt says she is in the divorce filing. But like everything else we do not know what that means. It doesn't tell us which of the scripts she actually uses,and of those why she uses them. She could be on an anti-d like so many others but that doesn't quite make you delusional and mental.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Map of BCBS in relation to the husband's Hotel Receipts as reported in the Chatt-Times Free Press on May 17.

The white buildings to the left are the BCBS complex on Cameron Hill Circle. The two hotels are in downtown to the left. It's a two-minute drive at most, or a five minute walk to either hotel.

The freeway in the middle leads back over the TN River on the Olgiati Bridge at the top, straight back to Signal Mt.

 

[Salem]

10EC_Dad-

I understood and followed what you meant by "neither party is without fault". Without jumping to conclusions about things that are not supported by facts, you are merely saying that it takes two to make and two to break a marriage.

I have been reading this thread for the value of trying to spread the word and find a missing mother <modsnip>. While I understand that speculation will occur where there is a lack of solid information, many of these <modsnip>.

I can also see that your point of mentioning "as much evidence of her being abusive as him" was to point out the LACK of evidence of abuse on both parts, not to indicate that she was abusing him.

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, it's not meant to. <modsnip>
That's JMHO.

Hey Guys - Listen UP!

We don't tell others how to post - the proper procedure is to alert the post and let the mods know. The mods will review and take any necessary action.

If there is a problem with how others are posting, proper procedure is to pm or email a mod and let them know what the issue is.

These are things that we don't talk about in the threads -- it derails the threads, causes posters to become defensive, and starts a bunch of bickering.

Please - do not respond to any post that offends you. If the post is breaking TOS, alert it and MOVE ON! Just move on........ State your opinion, theory, speculation, the facts as you see them and move on again.

Thanks,

Salem