HOW does the State Prove it was not George?

[Chilly Willy]

Right. But they will probably put her up there to say all of this stuff, imo.

They are in desperation mode.

I'm sure the prosecution is hoping Casey takes the stand. They'll tear her to shreds. By the time they're done with her, she could say the sky is blue and the jury won't believe her.

It would be a huge mistake for Casey to take the stand but ultimately it is Casey's decision, even if her lawyers advise against it.

 

[Ssejors]

Doesn't ICA have to be on the Defense Witness list if she was going to testify?


ETA. I will ask in the "all things Lawyerly" thread

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think I read in the Lawyer's thread that they're going to need for someone to testify to that though. The only one that can testify about abuse is Casey and the jury knows Casey lies. The defense can't just testify themselves. They're going to needs witnesses to testify to the alleged abuse.

We haven't heard much from Annie. I wonder if KC ever told her any secrets. Annie snuck into the A's house (twice!) when KC was bonded out.
How can she claim they never talked about Caylee? I find that very hard to believe. AD told LE that she didn't think KC is smart enough to have done this alone.
Done what and what does she know?

Oh and I just thought about something else, AD said they were very close until about March I think. What the heck happened in March? :waitasec:

 

[katydid23]

What the defense says and what they prove are two different things. How do you think the defense will present the dirty George information to the jury? Who will testify to these things?

I think Casey herself will, In all her glory.
They also have computer expert of their own I believe, to discuss his Escort Services hits ion the computer.

And members of the family and friends will discuss his affairs and his gambling and lying, and volatile temper. imo/

 

[katydid23]

Doesn't ICA have to be on the Defense Witness list if she was going to testify?


ETA. I will ask in the "all things Lawyerly" thread

NOPE. She can stand up at any time, and ask to go on the stand, even against her attorneys wishes.

 

[katydid23]

I'm sure the prosecution is hoping Casey takes the stand. They'll tear her to shreds. By the time they're done with her, she could say the sky is blue and the jury won't believe her.

It would be a huge mistake for Casey to take the stand but ultimately it is Casey's decision, even if her lawyers advise against it.

I agree. But I think she is narcissistic enough to do it anyway. And it is all up to her. And without her testimony their version of events will not come in.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I think Casey herself will, In all her glory.
They also have computer expert of their own I believe, to discuss his Escort Services hits ion the computer.

And members of the family and friends will discuss his affairs and his gambling and lying, and volatile temper. imo/

It's a huge leap from visiting escort services online to killing or covering up the death of a child. I don't think the judge would consider it relevant. Are any of those people on the defense witness list, do we know?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

chloroform is used to turn opiates like Oxycontin (mixed with other substances) into heroin that can be injected. I think the chloroform is drug related and has nothing to do with Caylee's death.

Geesh and people put that stuff into their veins.
The SA is convinced KC had/used chloroform on Caylee. I can't picture her mixing it myself.
How much would one make at a time? How long does it take? How long does it last? How many pots and pans, etc.
How does one avoid being overcome theirself while making it? Sounds too complicated if you ask me.

 

[Themis]

I agree. But I think she is narcissistic enough to do it anyway. And it is all up to her. And without her testimony their version of events will not come in.

That's why the DT is still undecided as to whether or not to present anything in a defense case in chief. JB probably supports it because it is giving ICA her "day in court." Her day in court really means the right to have the state present the evidence through witnesses and to cross examine them. It is a street myth that giving someone their day in court necessarily includes the right for them to speak and have their say. Of course, they can, but she will still have had her "day in court" even if she wisely (for the first time) follows sound legal advice NOT to testify.

 

[Baznme]

They don't have to prove anything about George, but the evidence can speak and point to Casey. There is something hinky about the duct tape though. They need to make clear when the garage was first searched and what happened to the silver duct tape after being used at the command center. The duct tape should have always been in the garage. No man would keep that locked up in a lawn or pool storage shed. It should have been out in the garage with all the other things used in the crime, and there could have been more than one roll.

I believe there was also more than one shed. I've kept my duct tape in my shed where I also keep the gas can for my lawn mower. I guess I don't understand why that would be strange.

 

[Themis]

Geesh and people put that stuff into their veins.
The SA is convinced KC had/used chloroform on Caylee. I can't picture her mixing it myself.
How much would one make at a time? How long does it take? How long does it last? How many pots and pans, etc.
How does one avoid being overcome theirself while making it? Sounds too complicated if you ask me.

I guess those people who put that stuff into their veins aren't in the crowd that would be worried about religiously following the food pyramid or measuring their cardiovascular rate while jogging? :waitasec:

Chloroform is rather dense and a common dilution agent is .... gasoline ... a gas can with a hole in it that could be covered and uncovered with duct tape would work just fine. Take the tape off and put the kid in a confined space with it --- nighty night.

 

[katydid23]

Right, and then there are Casey's claims that she was out of town with her car then entire time. There is no one to testify differently. The defense can speculate that someone else may have had access to the car during that time but the jury is not allowed to consider speculation as evidence.

But then again she came back and forth from the house driving the car, and George saw her at least once. And he had keys to that car. And she was actually staying nights in the same town, 10 minutes away. George was an ex-detective, so they may make the case he followed her or figured out where her car was.

Also, when she talked about the smell of the car she blamed George for using the car and hitting a dead animal. And she told Tony that she called her Dad and asked him to pick up the car from Amscott. That is going to be used against George right there. imoo

So it is not wild speculation that he might have had access to the car. ESPECIALLY because she was seen driving other cars herself at earlier times.

I just think we should all be ready for some aggressive, bruising testimony against George. imoo

 

[Baznme]

However the DT is going to put George on trial starting Thursday. And every damning thing that points to Casey is going to be pointed to George as well.
And that is going to create a huge amount of reasonable doubt UNLESS they can prove he was NOT the guilty party. imoo

I cannot wait.....to see it.......bring it on.......because IMO, they've got NOTHING.....and they know it!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I wonder if the defense is calling GA's ex wife...the one that divorced him for being a pathological liar and that said he behaved questionably around children?

When and where did you hear that GA behaved questionably around his ex wife's children? Do you know if she even has children?

I never heard of her until Dr. Drew contacted her last week and had her permission to mention that, even back then, GA was a big liar.
Other than that, I guess she said he was a good guy. Obviously, not good enough to stay married to him though.

Ex wife did say that GA wanted to move to FL to become a Disney character though.

 

[Quiche]

How do they prove it wasn't George? By proving who really did it...

I think they've done a fine job already, and I think what they'll have in cross and rebuttal will bring me to my feet a few times. jmo

 

[katydid23]

It's a huge leap from visiting escort services online to killing or covering up the death of a child. I don't think the judge would consider it relevant. Are any of those people on the defense witness list, do we know?

I know, it iS a huge leap. But that is the same leap the State has to deal with in getting people to believe Casey would intentionally kill her child. George's bad behaviors are no better or worse than hers in the scheme of things. They both lied a lot, and were untrustworthy, and he had a strong sexual appetite apparently, so why assume it was Casey as opposed to him. { this is what the DT will say, imo]

I think there are people on the list who were prepared to testify about George , per se. River Cruz for example.

 

[LancelotLink]

BBM: Where is the doubt that Casey had possession of the car? Casey drove that car everywhere. I think there are plenty of witnesses, and cell phone pings to back up Casey being in possession of the car.

There is also that tiny isssue (oopsy) of Cindy calling 911 saying that Casey had stolen there car, and had been gone for 31 days.

I love you! :floorlaugh:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

They are going to say that Casey said those things about the smell in the car truthfully. Remember she said at one point, MY DAD HIT A DEAD ANIMAL I THINK WHEN HE HAD MY CAR. And she told Tony that she had called and asked her dad to pick up the car at Amscott. So that looks bad fpr George right there. And all he had to do was leave decomp fluids in the trunk, not the whole body all that time.

And Casey was coming and going from that house all of the time. So that gives him means and opportunity to move the body in and out.

Obviously I do not believe it, but they might easily create reasonable doubt with it. imoo

And, in the jail tapes, the parents did seems concerned if KC had shared something (what, we don't know) with the counselor.

Also, another time, GA expressed 'you know other things will come out'.

I'm sooo curious as to what other things.

 

[Baznme]

Originally quoted by katydid23; (My replies in red)

It appears that the main defense strategy will be GEORGE DID IT. And Kronk helped at the end. And Cindy left the ladder up...

They are even going to imply that George is framing Casey because he was abusing Caylee and did not want to be exposed, imo.

So does the state have any solid evidence that can prove his innocence and her guilt?

Their 'evidence' :BBM - First of all, from where did this claim that GA was abusing "Caylee" come from? I've never heard that in the courtroom. Have you?

George had control of the duct tape. He owned it so that's no biggie.

He had keys to the Pontiac. Most people do that have their name on the title.

He had access to all of the burial items. It was his home, so that's a given.

He knew about the burial site. They need to "Prove" it.

He attempted suicide. That's difficult to understand? Good Lord, how much is one person supposed to endure because of a brat daughter?

He did not call LE when he left the tow yard. I think he was waiting to see what CA had to say about that. Doesn't make him involved in harm to Caylee.

He had no response when he first 'learned' about Caylee being missing. How in the world would we know that? He was taken back by the news and was speechless for a few seconds of what we were privileged to hear on a tape of a phone call. Not a fair assumption IMO.

He went secretly to LE and gave incriminating evidence about Casey. He was truthful in his interview with LE, that's all. If it was incriminating, then let the shoe fit.

Casey has all the symptoms of abuse survivor.[/quote] The only symptoms she has are those of a pathological liar and a spoiled brat.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I agree. But I think she is narcissistic enough to do it anyway. And it is all up to her. And without her testimony their version of events will not come in.

I really hope she does take the stand. DRAMA!