IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[Jupiter812]

(apologies if this appeared here earlier - tried to post a better-written, similar note last night and it vanished).

Anyone see Dateline NBC a couple of days ago? It had the story of Bethany Correira, who was sexually assaulted, murdered, and burned in a fire to destroy evidence in an adjacent building by her landlord. The detective on the case had a sister who suffered an almost identical outcome about 20 years earlier.

Brings to mind, the burned barn in Martinsville, IN, just 2 days after LS's disappearance. In my mind, here's the connection (as much as I loathe to make it): LS is Jewish. Her "friends"/POIs were mostly Jewish. Of them, a good number were former AEPis (a Jewish frat house, kicked off campus for bad behavior). A search of the barn's owner on spokeo.com (not necessarily a source I would take to the bank, but nonetheless a possibility) says that he is Jewish, and the business there is tree hauling and trucking. There are not many (any other?) Jews in Martinsville, IN. There are no synagogues there. The town has/had a reputation of being home to the KKK. What are the chances that two catastrophes involving Jewish people who might have tangentially known each other would happen so close in proximity and time to each other? What about JR's late night cell phone ping in Martinsville? Did AEPi ever host a dance/party at this barn? Again, according to spokeo.com, the owner, who is in his 50s has a son of the same name in his 20s.

None of this means that the barn owner knew anything, but the kids involved may have used this property. I also recall reading somewhere that the barn's owner was out of town at the time of the fire. My radar tells me the fire in the barn is a BIG factor here.

Careful now. Right off the bat you have a major incorrect fact: The barn fire was not 2 days after her disappearance but 2 weeks.

I can buy into something like this happening to her. But the antisemitism part I don't, at least in context of this case. I don't recall hearing an update about investigation into the fire. Has anyone else?

 

[cspring]

Wow...just in case anyone missed this....someone in the previous thread posted this article. Click on Comments at the bottom of it and read the first one!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20102172-504083.html

(apologies if this appeared here earlier - tried to post a better-written, similar note last night and it vanished).

Anyone see Dateline NBC a couple of days ago? It had the story of Bethany Correira, who was sexually assaulted, murdered, and burned in a fire to destroy evidence in an adjacent building by her landlord. The detective on the case had a sister who suffered an almost identical outcome about 20 years earlier.

Brings to mind, the burned barn in Martinsville, IN, just 2 days after LS's disappearance. In my mind, here's the connection (as much as I loathe to make it): LS is Jewish. Her "friends"/POIs were mostly Jewish. Of them, a good number were former AEPis (a Jewish frat house, kicked off campus for bad behavior). A search of the barn's owner on spokeo.com (not necessarily a source I would take to the bank, but nonetheless a possibility) says that he is Jewish, and the business there is tree hauling and trucking. There are not many (any other?) Jews in Martinsville, IN. There are no synagogues there. The town has/had a reputation of being home to the KKK. What are the chances that two catastrophes involving Jewish people who might have tangentially known each other would happen so close in proximity and time to each other? What about JR's late night cell phone ping in Martinsville? Did AEPi ever host a dance/party at this barn? Again, according to spokeo.com, the owner, who is in his 50s has a son of the same name in his 20s.

None of this means that the barn owner knew anything, but the kids involved may have used this property. I also recall reading somewhere that the barn's owner was out of town at the time of the fire. My radar tells me the fire in the barn is a BIG factor here.

I have wondered about that fire all this time. Wish i knew if the cops combed thru it looking for human remains. Btw-the fire was 2 days before the martinsville search-like june 17th or 19th maybe. 2 DAYS B4 THE SEARCH. Was it a planned search i wonder?
So many things we dont have answers to. How do we find out if they did indeed search the fire for a body?

 

[Jupiter812]

I'm glad the theory about an abduction or accosting (not sure of the noun form) near the gravel lot is getting more traction. The mystery is how do CR and JR tie into it?

As I've mentioned before, I don't necessarily believe she was with CR in the alley. If it was him, there was someone else in the alley or at the end of the alley waiting for them.

I'll share the start of a quick scenario off the top of my head and check back later: CR has a cell phone and after getting popped he calls JR for help. JR and his guest bring the guest's vehicle around to the gravel lot and pick them up ...

 

[Jupiter812]

I have wondered about that fire all this time. Wish i knew if the cops combed thru it looking for human remains. Btw-the fire was 2 days before the martinsville search-like june 17th or 19th maybe. 2 DAYS B4 THE SEARCH. Was it a planned search i wonder?
So many things we dont have answers to. How do we find out if they did indeed search the fire for a body?

It was not a planned search. But it was a MASSIVE one given that the reason was merely a strange smell called in by a nearby resident!!! That, I don't buy. LE had an extremely credible lead to pull out all the stops on that search.

 

[Esther]

Careful now. Right off the bat you have a major incorrect fact: The barn fire was not 2 days after her disappearance but 2 weeks.

I can buy into something like this happening to her. But the antisemitism part I don't, at least in context of this case. I don't recall hearing an update about investigation into the fire. Has anyone else?

I am NOT implying antisemitism here. What I AM implying is that there is likely, and very SADLY, a Jewish connection, between the victim, the perpetrators, the bystanders and the accessories.

 

[Jupiter812]

I am NOT implying antisemitism here. What I AM implying is that there is likely, and very SADLY, a Jewish connection, between the victim, the perpetrators, the bystanders and the accessories.

Sorry, I misinterpreted then. I do not believe such a connection is "likely." And, the chance that aepi would have a dance in that barn is zilch imo.

 

[LongTallTexan]

In reviewing the article that someone recently posted, (and I've read this before but thanks for bringing it up again!), I can't keep from thinking about this :

"There has been much speculation in the media about Lauren's disappearance. However, this is a fact ... Lauren last used her cell phone at 12:16 a.m., just after midnight as June 2 became June 3 when she was still safely in the confines of Smallwood. Consider that fact when you read about Lauren's case or hear her story. Let me repeat it: Lauren last used her cell phone at 12:16 a.m., just after midnight as June 2 became June 3 when she was still safely in the confines of Smallwood.

Without reading too much into this, it's seems very clear to me that:
1) CS is making a factual statement
2) That LS didn't use her phone
The assumption that is most obvious, it that LS using her phone = LS not having her phone.

The message here is that there is a lot more to this story than LS was impaired and left her phone/shoes at Kilroys.
Some different questions I've pondered:
1) Did she leave her phone at SW and someone brought it to her because someone was trying to contact her?
2) Did she leave it because she didn't want to be contacted?
3) Did someone else put it there?

I realize it's speculation, however CS is clearly sending a message to someone....not us at WS, but a POI/friend.

The activities (INdy 500, meeting CR) leading up to June 2rd in conjuction with the activities of June 2nd IMO are very suspicious for this to be random. LS clearly has plans, then something changed and after midnight she begins on a journey with a new friend and without her cell phone. It was clear from one HT statement that HT disapproved (my interpretation) of LS's decisions that night, maybe disapproved of who she was with.

I'd don't pretend to be smart enough or have enough info to suspect or discount a POI, with what we (WS/public) have anything is possible. However, the activities around her dissappearance are very suspicious and with some simple assumptions, there can be motive.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I'm glad the theory about an abduction or accosting (not sure of the noun form) near the gravel lot is getting more traction.

I'm not. The parents just said they don't believe this was a (random) abduction. I'm following their lead, personally.

As to the notion that something occurred in the lot involving the POI, that appears more within the possible focus of the investigation, but if it involved CR, as you suggest, then it necessarily requires CR, JR (who is acknowledging he was last to see LS), and MB (who would know if CR left the apt or contacted JR after CR and LS returned to his place) to all have a story straight, which most people seem to think is not impossible, but unlikely. If it involves only JR (and his mystery guest?), that seems more reasonable, but I'm not even sure that's related to her losing her keys - I thought (and I very well may be wrong) there was a legitimate report that the keys were found (and placed on the railing) sometime in the 3-4AM timeframe. What I'm saying is, while something might have occurred in the gravel lot, I'm not sure how if at all it relates to the keys (I've always guessed they fell out when CR picked her up to carry her over the gravel - his mind was impaired, but not his motor function) or tells us anything new about who is responsible.

 

[imkeylime]

I'm not. The parents just said they don't believe this was a (random) abduction. I'm following their lead, personally.

Saying she was taken, i.e., put in a car and driven off with, doesn't mean it was random ... but it would still be an abduction, theoretically, if she didn't go willingly or on her own accord. She had to go somewhere, somehow ... maybe with someone she knew vs. a random stranger.

 

[mountainguy777]

If this was a random abduction, all her "friends" would be eager to tell what they know and help in any way to find lauren. They are not. Its human nature to lawyer up and stay in the shadows when you have something to hide. Just saying....

 

[akh]

I keep reading about this Martinsville cell phone 'ping'. Lately it seems it's being tied to JR. For one thing, is there anything to substantiate there ever was a call or ping in the first place? Where did this info come from? And was it always supposed to be JR's phone or has it morphed into JR's phone by people connecting dots like the 4:15AM call?

The problem I'm having with this info at all is two-fold... Firstly, how on Earth are we privy to info about a cell phone ping of any of the PsOI? Secondly, I'd think if there was a Martinsville ping, unless it believably fit with something the police were already told, that person would already be in custody. That would be the discrepancy the police are looking for- Someone's phone pinging someplace their alibi/story would say they wouldn't be.

Am I missing something with this?

 

[PineMushroom]

I haven't posted in awhile but have continued to lurk and follow the news on the LS case.

"I'm 21!" he told a news reporter Thursday, sounding somewhat defensive as if he were being scrutinized for a possible drinking violation.

Then he faced the question he's heard, in varying forms, countless times these past three months: "Can you tell me about your involvement with Lauren Spierer the morning she went missing?"

"Talk to my lawyer," he replied, before walking two doors down and entering the apartment of friends Corey Rossman and Mike Beth.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201109...diana-campus?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p


Returning to campus, drinking in public and, well, socializing with other named POIs, doesn't sound like behavior of people with something to hide or fear that they will be arrested or requested for further questioning.

I guess I would fall into the stranger or acquaintance abduction theory.

Like others, the whole mystery man via Tony Gatto's witness account and police response to same still has me perplexed.

I have sinking suspicion that the police are no closer to understanding this case then they were just days after it was reported.

Has JW returned to campus or did he graduate?

 

[imkeylime]

I'm glad the theory about an abduction or accosting (not sure of the noun form) near the gravel lot is getting more traction. The mystery is how do CR and JR tie into it?

As I've mentioned before, I don't necessarily believe she was with CR in the alley. If it was him, there was someone else in the alley or at the end of the alley waiting for them.

I'll share the start of a quick scenario off the top of my head and check back later: CR has a cell phone and after getting popped he calls JR for help. JR and his guest bring the guest's vehicle around to the gravel lot and pick them up ...

... and the guest drives off to Martinsville, some remote area, Indy, or even MI? Not sure what to make of the tweet about the Runcible Spoon ..

IDK Indiana well, but I do know Michigan. Posters have mentioned West Bloomfield, JR's (and visitor's?) hometown. There are many lakes in that area, but it's congested ... lots of adjoining roads and lakefront homes. SW of that, on the way to Ann Arbor, it's more rural. It would take between 5 1/2 and 6 hours to get to either location from Bloomington. There's also the other side of AA, between 69 and 94 ...

Martinsville still sounds interesting, closer and with a possible connection to some PsoI ...

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

The problem I'm having with this info at all is two-fold... Firstly, how on Earth are we privy to info about a cell phone ping of any of the PsOI?

We aren't. It's just another unsubstantiated report. It might well be true, but there's no particularly good reason to believe it is.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I thought (and I very well may be wrong) there was a legitimate report that the keys were found (and placed on the railing) sometime in the 3-4AM timeframe. What I'm saying is, while something might have occurred in the gravel lot, I'm not sure how if at all it relates to the keys (I've always guessed they fell out when CR picked her up to carry her over the gravel - his mind was impaired, but not his motor function) or tells us anything new about who is responsible.

I looked it up and I'm right - AA told the Journal News that he found the keys shortly after 3AM. http://victimsheartland.forumotion....twice-landfill-search-complete-yields-nothing So, assuming AA is telling the truth, if anything bad happened in the alley that relates to the keys, it had to have happened between 2:51 and shortly after 3, leave no other suspicious evidence, and be something both MB and JR are in on, unless it's something that didn't fatally harm LS until over an hour and a half later and didn't produce any evidence on her person differentiable from her already wasted state.

 

[Jupiter812]

snipped

Martinsville still sounds interesting, closer and with a possible connection to some PsoI ...

I'm all about Martinsville area as a possible disposal place. What I have forgotten to mention previously when we've talked about it is this: There is a way to travel from Bloomington to Martinsville area without driving on State Road 37--the main artery in and out of Bloomington.

Old SR 37 (it's even called this on maps) is a winding route most of which goes through Morgan Monroe State Forest. One could travel the entire way especially in the middle of the night, undetected, whereas regular 37 often has state police presence. And getting from 5 North area to the Old route would be easy too. Matter of fact, one would go through the creepy park I posted about a few months ago, Lower Cascades. :sick:

 

[threepisces]

I looked it up and I'm right - AA told the Journal News that he found the keys shortly after 3AM. http://victimsheartland.forumotion....twice-landfill-search-complete-yields-nothing So, assuming AA is telling the truth, if anything bad happened in the alley that relates to the keys, it had to have happened between 2:51 and shortly after 3, leave no other suspicious evidence, and be something both MB and JR are in on, unless it's something that didn't fatally harm LS until over an hour and a half later and didn't produce any evidence on her person differentiable from her already wasted state.

Actually, that article says it was shortly BEFORE 3AM, which makes it even more confusing.

"Indiana University student AJ Amin, 19, told The Journal News on Friday that he saw a small purple pouch with a gold key shortly before 3 a.m. that morning on the sidewalk near that building. He said he left it there and that a friend of his put it on a railing when he saw it there a few hours later.
"I didn't know they were hers," said Amin, who had not yet given his account to police."

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Actually, that article says it was shortly BEFORE 3AM, which makes it even more confusing.

"Indiana University student AJ Amin, 19, told The Journal News on Friday that he saw a small purple pouch with a gold key shortly before 3 a.m. that morning on the sidewalk near that building. He said he left it there and that a friend of his put it on a railing when he saw it there a few hours later.
"I didn't know they were hers," said Amin, who had not yet given his account to police."

You're right, my mistake, but I don't think it makes it more confusing. Only makes it clearer that if anything happened in the lot besides their making their way to 5 North, it happened in a matter of minutes at best.

 

[threepisces]

You're right, my mistake, but I don't think it makes it more confusing. Only makes it clearer that if anything happened in the lot besides their making their way to 5 North, it happened in a matter of minutes at best.

I guess I would imagine these alleys to be less frequently traveled at 3am. AA found the keys almost immediately after she went down the alley.

Also, do you think this "small purple pouch" is her purse/clutch/wallet whatever? Or is it like a little key chain?

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I guess I would imagine these alleys to be less frequently traveled at 3am. AA found the keys almost immediately after she went down the alley.

Also, do you think this "small purple pouch" is her purse/clutch/wallet whatever? Or is it like a little key chain?

How would I know?

The timing seems coincidental, yes, but assuming he's telling the truth, I don't see what's strange about it - perhaps this is the hour people tend to arrive home from the bars.