IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[Darcyline]

I think that he is saying that she was drugged up or severely intoxicated much earlier than any of the time lines suggest which is a possibility. I know Lauren and JW having relationship issues is a controversial theory that people around here don't really like.

 

[mamamia54]

I think that he is saying that she was drugged up or severely intoxicated much earlier than any of the time lines suggest which is a possibility. I know Lauren and JW having relationship issues is a controversial theory that people around here don't really like.

Well whether or not it's controversial to some doesn't mean that it shouldn't be spoken of. I mean just the fact that JW wasn't apparently aware that Lauren had decided NOT to stay home that night is a very important fact.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I think that he is saying that she was drugged up or severely intoxicated much earlier than any of the time lines suggest which is a possibility.

Correct, though I'd state it differently. I think it's widely acknowledged that she was severely intoxicated by around 2AM. I am suggesting that she began to become intoxicated, in the partying sense, before leaving SW.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Well whether or not it's controversial to some doesn't mean that it shouldn't be spoken of. I mean just the fact that JW wasn't apparently aware that Lauren had decided NOT to stay home that night is a very important fact.

Is it important to you because you think it suggests relationship issues? I agree it would suggest that if her intent in going out was to be with another guy, rather than to do drugs. It seems widely acknowledged that she in fact did drugs, to excess. We have no good evidence, however, of her having been with another guy.

 

[mamamia54]

Is it important to you because you think it suggests relationship issues? I agree it would suggest that if her intent in going out was to be with another guy, rather than to do drugs. It seems widely acknowledged that she in fact did drugs, to excess. We have no good evidence, however, of her having been with another guy.

I don't think that it's just important to me, I think that it's just possible that some wish not to talk about it. And she was with another guy, CR. Are you saying that's not a fact?

 

[Jupiter812]

I think that he is saying that she was drugged up or severely intoxicated much earlier than any of the time lines suggest which is a possibility. I know Lauren and JW having relationship issues is a controversial theory that people around here don't really like.

And whether it is true or not the fact remains that JW as well as his champions do not want relationship issues to enter the picture because it suggests motive.

 

[mamamia54]

I guess I'm just too old to worry about if I'm being controversial or not lol.

 

[Darcyline]

Mamamia-I do feel like some don't want to talk about it because it casts Lauren in a negative light (though I guess some other assumptions made about that night don't? ) but I really don't mean it that way at all. Ultimately, it isn't something I bring up a lot even though I believe it to be true because I don't think it really directly affects the case. I don't really think JW was involved so it doesn't really matter whether Lauren was 100% in love and dedicated to him so that she would never even CONSIDER or look at another guy.

Jupiter-that is another good point.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

she was with another guy, CR. Are you saying that's not a fact?

She was with lots of guys that night - CR, MB, DR, JR, JR's visitor if he had one, and presumably lots of guys at the bar. We have no evidence that she was "with" any one of them in the sense in which I meant, though, yes, she was for the most part together with CR later in the night (during much of which time she was nearly incoherently inebriated, allegedly).

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

And whether it is true or not the fact remains that JW as well as his champions do not want relationship issues to enter the picture because it suggests motive.

I suppose it's fair to call me a champion of JW, though I have no relationship to him whatsoever, but I object to uncritical discussion of relationship issues for the same reason that I object to any other statement - because they are based on misreadings or unsubstantiated, anonymous comments that appear inconsistent with the statements of persons closest to the case/players.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I guess I'm just too old to worry about if I'm being controversial or not lol.

Saying something that most people around you seem to believe is not being controversial lol.

 

[Jupiter812]

She had to be into him enough to follow him back to 5 North. She couldn't have been such a drug fiend as to return there in her state for drugs only.

 

[Darcyline]

If we take away everything unsubstantiated we would pretty much have to close the thread. Only half-joking. It just boggles my mind how very little information we actually have and how much of what we "know" comes from HT's rambling or assumptions. I don't even believe we have a truly substantiated report that she was doing drugs at all and that seems to be accepted as fact.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

She had to be into him enough to follow him back to 5 North. She couldn't have been such a drug fiend as to return there in her state for drugs only.

Have you ever used the drugs in question? If not, how would you know? You agree that she was in a "state" - she was allegedly foaming at the mouth and stumbling out of an elevator barely able to walk. Do you believe that a girl in such a state is in a position to decide what she wants in terms of being involved with a guy?

 

[Jupiter812]

Mamamia-I do feel like some don't want to talk about it because it casts Lauren in a negative light (though I guess some other assumptions made about that night don't? ) but I really don't mean it that way at all. Ultimately, it isn't something I bring up a lot even though I believe it to be true because I don't think it really directly affects the case. I don't really think JW was involved so it doesn't really matter whether Lauren was 100% in love and dedicated to him so that she would never even CONSIDER or look at another guy.

Jupiter-that is another good point.

I think it is relevant but for a different reason. The starting point is LS/JW relationship issues. She is into CR but it may not be mutual. His behavior as described by her friends sounds aggressive. He may have been interested in one thing and not cared about her as a person, hence being able to carry out a disposal at some point in the night.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

If we take away everything unsubstantiated we would pretty much have to close the thread. Only half-joking. It just boggles my mind how very little information we actually have and how much of what we "know" comes from HT's rambling or assumptions. I don't even believe we have a truly substantiated report that she was doing drugs at all and that seems to be accepted as fact.

Both LE and major news media reports have acknowledged the possibility that drugs play a significant role in the night in question. I believe LS's friends have referred explicitly to same, as have posts on PT that I believe are legitimate. The drug talk is not simply the stuff of anonymous rumor.

 

[Jupiter812]

Have you ever used the drugs in question? If not, how would you know? You agree that she was in a "state" - she was allegedly foaming at the mouth and stumbling out of an elevator barely able to walk. Do you believe that a girl in such a state is in a position to decide what she wants in terms of being involved with a guy?

Who said foaming at the mouth and stumbling out of an elevator?

 

[Jupiter812]

Who said foaming at the mouth and stumbling out of an elevator?

While you locate and link to the PT site and LOHUD article I will say in advance these better be accounts from people close to the case/players. Fair is fair.

 

[Darcyline]

If I remember correctly, the LE statement was that they were looking into possibilities or had heard rumors/hearsay that were in that direction about drug use. Then, HT and maybe MB (some people even question the MB statement now) said party which people on here still swear doesn't mean drugs.

Every other statement is anonymous rumor and hearsay at least that I have seen. I don't count PT-I know some people here love it, but I just cannot really say with 100% certainty which online posters have real information and which are just reciting rumors or inserting themselves for other reasons. I may have missed some stuff-work started back for me at the beginning of the semester so I really genuinely may be mistaken. I do think she was doing drugs that night, but it really is not substantiated until we have a drug screen, actual evidence of a drug deal, one of the people who was literally with her saying they watched her doing _____ drugs at ____times, or a video of her doing it. I think it just emphasizes how little concrete actual information we have and also makes it difficult for me to dismiss any person's theory entirely just because they operate partially on assumptions rather than perfect undeniable evidence from LE or something. We are all beholden to assumptions right now, unfortunately

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

While you locate and link to the PT site and LOHUD article I will say in advance these better be accounts from people close to the case/players. Fair is fair.

Elevator stumbling cite (mainstream media report) - http://www.lohud.com/article/201107...lding-video-no-condition-help-friend-get-home

I believed that there similarly was a MSM report re the foaming at the mouth, but I may be wrong on that score - one assertion of same comes from (anonymous) "northsider" on this site, whose statements went largely unchallenged by most here. It's unnecessary, however, to establish that she was very messed up, which is suggested in less graphic terms by MSM reports, and widely accepted by posters here.

There are other more specific reports regarding her drug use from a PT poster who I have been told it is against forum policy to quote or identify.