IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

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AnalyticalExaminer said:
What premise? I'm referring only to published media reports. They do not state that JW tried to contact LS on the night of 6/2-3, but rather that he did so the following day. If you can find a published media report containing anything to the contrary, please cite it.

None of us can "prove" anything about this case. This is both true and irrelevant - if we are to dismiss everything unprovable, we have nothing to talk about. But for purposes of discussion, we can go on the reported facts which have not only been told to the media but have also been told to LE and in some cases polygraph administrators.
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Would you please post links to articles or other sources that credibly state that JW did not try to contact LS that night? A lot of JW's 'alibi' rests on either not talking to her or not trying to talk to her on a night when they had tentative plans to get together. TIA.
 
AnalyticalExaminer said:
What premise? I'm referring only to published media reports. They do not state that JW tried to contact LS on the night of 6/2-3, but rather that he did so the following day. If you can find a published media report containing anything to the contrary, please cite it.

None of us can "prove" anything about this case. This is both true and irrelevant - if we are to dismiss everything unprovable, we have nothing to talk about. But for purposes of discussion, we can go on the reported facts which have not only been told to the media but have also been told to LE and in some cases polygraph administrators.
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I find it very hard to believe that JW didn't try to reach his girlfriend at all. She was supposed to come over to his place that night. I think that's a stretch. LE knows the truth because they have his cell records. I'm not pointing the finger at JW but I find it crazy to think he never tried to reach her until the next morning.

I always believed that he was the "other male" on the 2:51 video and LE spent so much time chasing their tail over JW (which I must admit I was all over JW) but I also believe that she moved past the 2:51 "altercation" and to 5 North, without the "other male" from the 2:51 tape. I said it before that I believe that LE is putting way too much weight on the 2:51 tape when most of the "action" took place an hour or so later.
 
I found a small, weird thing that probably means nothing. But ... I googled DB and a 2008 FB group came up with his name and JR's name. But when I checked the site, DB isn't listed as DB, but with the last name of Louis. JR is listed as JR, though. I think DL is DB ... Cranbrook is referenced, and I checked the photo against a current one. It's an old public FB and probably irrelevant, but I wonder why the name DL? Especially since it came up on google as DB. Has anyone ever heard of DB going by DL? Is this a common thing to on FB maybe?

Here's a link:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12533150420&v=wall
 
imkeylime said:
I found a small, weird thing that probably means nothing. But ... I googled DB and a 2008 FB group came up with his name and JR's name. But when I checked the site, DB isn't listed as DB, but with the last name of Louis. JR is listed as JR, though. I think DL is DB ... Cranbrook is referenced, and I checked the photo against a current one. It's an old public FB and probably irrelevant, but I wonder why the name DL? Especially since it came up on google as DB. Has anyone ever heard of DB going by DL? Is this a common thing to on FB maybe?

Here's a link:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12533150420&v=wall
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DB modified to this a few weeks ago. I think it's a privacy thing more so than anything else, as I recall JW also had modified his profile to remove his last name for a period of time. His family's business is known by the last name, so it may be a deflection mechanism of sorts as well. But to answer your question, yes, same person as DB.

As to the link itself, yet another piece tying those two together in some manner (this time JR being the creator of the group, with DB as a co-admin)
 
IUGrad84 said:
Hello and many thanks to the tireless efforts of this community. I have been visiting and following the discussion since late June, but have been reluctant to post since the insight offered here is superior to anything I could share. However, I have tried to make a difference by contributing to the Find Lauren fund and discussing her disappearance with former associates in the media (tv and radio) industry.

There are a handful of 'six degrees' and connections for me to this case, which I am more than willing to disclose if anyone is interested. For now, I'd like to just share the point of my post which resulted from a conversation that I had with my brother (Indiana County Sheriff - neither in Monroe or Porter) last night regarding the tragic case of Amanda Bach. The suspect was taken into custody in Bloomington (while visiting friends) and transported back to Porter County. He is also the son of an Indiana police officer. My brother would never discuss or share details of an ongoing investigation, but when I asked him if there was any chance this suspect could have involvement into LS' disappearance, he hesitated ... then said 'of course the possibility exists, you need to consider everything' and that officers will certainly run through a series of checks and comparisons. I would be interested to hear from all of you on the likelihood these two cases are connected in some way. I know that we all have the same goal - to make sure that LS is reunited with her family.
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IUGrad, welcome! It's great to have new members. If you've been following along, you know we do what we can with what little info we have, so please don't feel like you have to contribute something new and different. Sometimes just thinking out loud here is useful for everyone.

I'm interested in your connections and look forward to your sharing. :balloons:
 
Skigirl said:
Would you please post links to articles or other sources that credibly state that JW did not try to contact LS that night? A lot of JW's 'alibi' rests on either not talking to her or not trying to talk to her on a night when they had tentative plans to get together. TIA.
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I don't need to - you're asking to prove a negative that is based on your presumption that he did call (itself based on a misreading of articles that said he called the next afternoon), akin to the "When did you stop beating your wife?" question - but already have, in this thread. Would you please post links to articles or other sources that credibly state that JW did try to contact LS that night?

JW's alibi is not based on not contacting her; that merely relates to purported motive. An alibi, to quote wikipedia, is "a type of defense found in legal proceedings by demonstrating that the defendant was not in the place where an alleged offense was committed." JW's "alibi" is based on his and his roommate(s)'s assertion that he was at home asleep. No one has put him anywhere else. JR has no alibi to our knowledge.
 
this has been on my mind a few days but I have been hesitant to post because I am not good at finding news articles, but didn't LE say there was a car they were interested in as well as the truck and then they released the trucks image and forgot about the car. I could have sworn they said something about a car as well.. anyone remember?
 
Jupiter812 said:
I would add: DB and JR attended Cranbrook High, Bloomfield, MI, at the same time.
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Thanks for the reminder. In double-checking that, I note that JR's football profile has him at 5'10", 185 lbs (in '07-08), unlike the Indiana criminal records, which have him at 5'7, 150 lbs (in '08 and '10). I assume still that they are the same person, but it is a discrepancy - the latter information could come from a driver's license that predates the football record, or the football record could be an exaggeration, I suppose.
 
Pedrosmom said:
I find it very hard to believe that JW didn't try to reach his girlfriend at all. She was supposed to come over to his place that night. I think that's a stretch. LE knows the truth because they have his cell records. I'm not pointing the finger at JW but I find it crazy to think he never tried to reach her until the next morning.

I always believed that he was the "other male" on the 2:51 video and LE spent so much time chasing their tail over JW (which I must admit I was all over JW) but I also believe that she moved past the 2:51 "altercation" and to 5 North, without the "other male" from the 2:51 tape. I said it before that I believe that LE is putting way too much weight on the 2:51 tape when most of the "action" took place an hour or so later.
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There is no 2:51 altercation. And there is no "other male" - LE has been clear that there is a single individual on the tape with LS. What are you referring to when you say "LE spent so much time chasing their tail over JW"?
 
I am now of the opinion that to the extent JR may not have cooperated, it is in giving up info re a guest (or guests) who is most likely to have been DB (and perhaps another person). We have no evidence, of course, that DB has given any info at all.
 
porchpile said:
10am supposedly, though I've never seen a screen grab that shows the exact time.
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It used to be in the Google cache as 10am, which should mean 10am Pacific.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6978250&postcount=150"]Previously discussed here[/ame]
 
A 4:30 a.m. departure from Bloomington would put one in Bloomfield Hills, MI around 10 a.m. That's just about right for driving timeframe.
 
AnalyticalExaminer said:
I don't need to - you're asking to prove a negative that is based on your presumption that he did call (itself based on a misreading of articles that said he called the next afternoon), akin to the "When did you stop beating your wife?" question - but already have, in this thread. Would you please post links to articles or other sources that credibly state that JW did try to contact LS that night?

JW's alibi is not based on not contacting her; that merely relates to purported motive. An alibi, to quote wikipedia, is "a type of defense found in legal proceedings by demonstrating that the defendant was not in the place where an alleged offense was committed." JW's "alibi" is based on his and his roommate(s)'s assertion that he was at home asleep. No one has put him anywhere else. JR has no alibi to our knowledge.
Click to expand...

I believe it's reasonable to start from the supposition that under normal circumstances, JW would call his girlfriend on a night that they had plans, and if not, to wonder why he did not and wonder where he was. They reportedly had plans. Those plans were not implemented. Why? Did he try to call, and was simply unsuccessful in reaching her, as was suggested by LS' roommate in an article that I have posted a link to in a previous message? Did he actually talk to her after the game but before she went out with her friends? We simply don't know, but on the weight of what scant evidence we have, it seems to me more likely that he would have called her that night. I think it's entirely reasonable to start from that supposition.

If he did talk to her, and she did not spend time with him that night, then he may have a motive. His alibi (that he was home in bed, if that is even his alibi) could be disproven by a phone call from his home or another location. I don't think the question of whether he called can or should be dismissed out of hand or assumed away.

If I heard from a credible source that there were no calls (which is a knowable fact), I would be able to accept that despite plans with his girlfriend who he supposedly loved and adored, it did not occur to him to worry or be jealous or try to reach her when she didn't call him or appear, he just simply went to bed. Otherwise, the information seems either incomplete and/or suspicious to me.
 
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