Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[ShadyLadySleuth]

I am relatively new to this forum and haven't read most of the thousands of posts on the JBR case. I do have my own opions, of course! I do have a question for those who believe the parents killed JBR and did the cover-up. IF they did it, then why did they leave her body in the house when they knew it would be found so soon? Why not get rid of the body that night to correspond to the "kidnapping" of the ransom note?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I believe that the Ramseys got rid of JonBenet's body because of the possibility that it would never be found. Now you might think that would be a good thing since it would eliminate a lot of evidence, but I don't think they could deal with the possibility of JonBenet's body rotting away in the Colorado wilderness.

 

[Alix]

I am relatively new to this forum and haven't read most of the thousands of posts on the JBR case. I do have my own opions, of course! I do have a question for those who believe the parents killed JBR and did the cover-up. IF they did it, then why did they leave her body in the house when they knew it would be found so soon? Why not get rid of the body that night to correspond to the "kidnapping" of the ransom note?

I think they felt that if their child just disappeared into thin air, it would make them look even more suspicious than if she were murdered by the bogus intruder.

Also, they might have been afraid to leave the house, even in the dead of night, in case they were seen. How could they possibly explain a midnight run to the police who would be investigating a child's disappearance/kidnapping?

Lastly, Patsy the Amazing Narcissist would never allow the opportunity for the cameras to pass her by. A truly missing child was of no use to her.

I think PR killed her daughter and felt the local police were so stupid they would never discover what had really happened. She was that arrogant.

I don't feel she was really all that intelligent myself, but she certainly did gauge the police correctly.

 

[runsdeep]

I am relatively new to this forum and haven't read most of the thousands of posts on the JBR case. I do have my own opions, of course! I do have a question for those who believe the parents killed JBR and did the cover-up. IF they did it, then why did they leave her body in the house when they knew it would be found so soon? Why not get rid of the body that night to correspond to the "kidnapping" of the ransom note?

they seemed to spend a lot of time and effort with JB and RN that night/morning. she was obviously hidden well and they really wanted to leave the state. i think when found out that they were stuck until kidnapper call or otherwise, that he found another way to try to get them Outta Dodge.

 

[Junebug99]

With a house that big, they could have hid her where she wouldn't have been found if they had wanted too, PR would have gotten plenty a press for a missing beauty queen.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Actually, missing person cases get more media coverage than unsolved murders. In the past 15 years, how many cases can you name where someone was missing for X amount of time and got national media coverage v. cases where the victim was found murdered, and there was no trial?

Mark Fuhrman wrote a book about this, and he said that the media prefers to report on missing children because it's more sensational. They can report on the search, on the findings, have pleas from the parents, give people hope that the child could be alive, etc.

 

[UKGuy]

I am relatively new to this forum and haven't read most of the thousands of posts on the JBR case. I do have my own opions, of course! I do have a question for those who believe the parents killed JBR and did the cover-up. IF they did it, then why did they leave her body in the house when they knew it would be found so soon? Why not get rid of the body that night to correspond to the "kidnapping" of the ransom note?

ShadyLadySleuth,

Interesting question. Some have answered it in different ways, e.g. there was snow on the ground or due to the concept of Undoing there was a reluctance to dispose of JonBenet in such a brutal manner.

As ever there is another explanation. One that depends upon pragmatism, a good olde american philosphy, basically time was limited, someone had decided to change a previous staging to one that represented an abduction.

So consider the Ramsey household alike a Houdini show, JonBenet has to vanish because she has been abducted, how can this be achieved? Well just make the body invisible, how? Hide her in the wine-cellar, latch it, and hope nobody finds her. Meanwhile the Ramsey's, excluding Burke, can fly away to Atlanta!

Why not get rid of the body that night to correspond to the "kidnapping" of the ransom note?

Because time constraints meant this could not be done. Consider Dumping or in criminological parlance Relocating the body would still raise questions relating to the abduction, e.g. why abduct a girl, then discard her at point X from the crime-scene.

The wine-cellar is someones attempt to fabricate a staged crime-scene that they think will put distance between themselves and and other persons involved!


.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I used to think that the Ramseys didn't dispose of JonBenet's body outside because although they had just killed her, it was an accident and she was still their daughter. It was a different situation from a sexual predator who kills a child who is a stranger to him, and then buries the body.

However, in the recent case of Lisa Irwin, I believe that she was killed by a family member in a fit of rage, just like JonBenet. Unlike JonBenet, I think the parent(s) disposed of Lisa's body outside. So if the Irwins are guilty, then my theory about why the Ramseys didn't get rid of the body doesn't hold up as much.

So now I am leaning more to the idea that appearence-obsessed Patsy didn't want JonBenet's body out there in the Colorado wilderness because she didn't want her "beauty queen" to be exposed to the elements.

I also think it's possible that Patsy knew they would get away with it because they were wealthy so there was no point in her disposing of JonBenet's body. With Lisa's parents, they may have thought that the only way they would get away with it is if the evidence from her body was eliminated.

 

[LinasK]

Again Mike, I will agree with experts in the case on this one, and say the intruder wrote the note. Why? Only god and the perp knows. Patsy was given a 4.5 likelihood 5 eliminating her. I am not going to pretend I know what goes on in the mind of child killer, and speculate why he wrote the note. I am extremely suspicious of the late Michael Helegoth and his hat with the letters SBTC, his stun gun and his Hi Tech boots. Also his actions before and after the murder. The RN had a lot of movie references in it, movies I highly doubt PR even watched.

Women do watch these kind of movies, Patsy included. When I was little, I used to watch James Bond movies with my dad. Now I see these kinds of movies with my husband, doesn't mean I don't watch them...

 

[LinasK]

I don't want to start a personal argument so if i come over too blunt it is a personal weakness. I have seen handwriting experts who point to many similarities with PR. Beyond the writing is the linguistics. That letter was written by a woman..a southern woman who had intimate knowledge of the Ramsey finances to the extent she knew the money from the bonus was still in the bank and not invested...the writer never addressed patsy but only John...why? because why would Patsy address herself? The letter is begging over the top for john to leave the house and never contact the police. Why? because patsy had murdered her child, staged her body for dumping but she could not get away with dragging the body to the car, plopping it into the trunk and driving off in the middle of the night with John in the house..see unlike the so called intruder..PR was concerned about waking up the people in the house....The note used expressions PR was known to use..The note was definitely written by a woman..lets see...a southern woman, with intimate knowledge of the family finances, used expressions PR was known to use, a long rambling message staging a fake kidnapping...who oh who could have written that note? Oh wait...Patsy...who else? nobody. Follow the note...

And a woman with a love of French expressions like "attache"- sound familiar with a name like JonBenet?, a madeup name that was a combination of names with a French pronunciation...

 

[FairM]

I used to think that the Ramseys didn't dispose of JonBenet's body outside because although they had just killed her, it was an accident and she was still their daughter. It was a different situation from a sexual predator who kills a child who is a stranger to him, and then buries the body.

However, in the recent case of Lisa Irwin, I believe that she was killed by a family member in a fit of rage, just like JonBenet. Unlike JonBenet, I think the parent(s) disposed of Lisa's body outside. So if the Irwins are guilty, then my theory about why the Ramseys didn't get rid of the body doesn't hold up as much.

So now I am leaning more to the idea that appearence-obsessed Patsy didn't want JonBenet's body out there in the Colorado wilderness because she didn't want her "beauty queen" to be exposed to the elements.

I also think it's possible that Patsy knew they would get away with it because they were wealthy so there was no point in her disposing of JonBenet's body. With Lisa's parents, they may have thought that the only way they would get away with it is if the evidence from her body was eliminated.

OMg how can you possibly already have come to the conclusion that Lisa Irwin's parents have killed her and dumped her body outside??!! It's hardly surprising therefore that you don't give the Ramseys any benefit of doubt!

 

[FairM]

I believe that the Ramseys got rid of JonBenet's body because of the possibility that it would never be found. Now you might think that would be a good thing since it would eliminate a lot of evidence, but I don't think they could deal with the possibility of JonBenet's body rotting away in the Colorado wilderness.

what? They couldn't deal with the above but they could deal with garrotting her, sexually abusing her, using a paint brush to abuse her, bashing her head in , strangling her and tying her up?!!

 

[FairM]

Ok , let's consider another possiblilty - i.e they didn't move her body because they didn't know she was lying in the wine cellar !!!

 

[runsdeep]

I used to think that the Ramseys didn't dispose of JonBenet's body outside because although they had just killed her, it was an accident and she was still their daughter. It was a different situation from a sexual predator who kills a child who is a stranger to him, and then buries the body.

However, in the recent case of Lisa Irwin, I believe that she was killed by a family member in a fit of rage, just like JonBenet. Unlike JonBenet, I think the parent(s) disposed of Lisa's body outside. So if the Irwins are guilty, then my theory about why the Ramseys didn't get rid of the body doesn't hold up as much.

So now I am leaning more to the idea that appearence-obsessed Patsy didn't want JonBenet's body out there in the Colorado wilderness because she didn't want her "beauty queen" to be exposed to the elements.

I also think it's possible that Patsy knew they would get away with it because they were wealthy so there was no point in her disposing of JonBenet's body. With Lisa's parents, they may have thought that the only way they would get away with it is if the evidence from her body was eliminated.

off topic--another family considered animals scattering remains to be almost the same as cremation. :tears:

 

[runsdeep]

Ok , let's consider another possiblilty - i.e they didn't move her body because they didn't know she was lying in the wine cellar !!!

so when LA told him to look around the house for things out of place or missing, instead of starting in her room to look around, made a beeline for that room and saw her when others looked in there and didnt see her from that vantage point.

 

[FairM]

so when LA told him to look around the house for things out of place or missing, instead of starting in her room to look around, made a beeline for that room and saw her when others looked in there and didnt see her from that vantage point.

Incorrect he didnt make a beeline for that room , he had already been down there before he was asked to search, he couldnt start with her bedroom because that by that stage had been cordened off by police tape!
He decided with F White to start at the bottom and work his way to the top , the light may have been different down there at the time of day he was looking in the room compared to when F White looked much earlier in the day.

 

[Mikebr]

I am relatively new to this forum and haven't read most of the thousands of posts on the JBR case. I do have my own opions, of course! I do have a question for those who believe the parents killed JBR and did the cover-up. IF they did it, then why did they leave her body in the house when they knew it would be found so soon? Why not get rid of the body that night to correspond to the "kidnapping" of the ransom note?

I know i am repeating myself so i apologize to others...but here i go..
I think Patsy killed her without John's knowledge..I think if John had known before the police were called the body would have been dumped. I think Patsy killed her either intentionally or in a fit of rage and staged the body, wrote the silly note begging john to leave the house and not call the police so she could move the body while he was gone. I think he reacted normally and made her call 911 which screwed up her plan. After the police were called either john realized patsy was involved or patsy told him. Thats why he acted strangely when the police arrived...he knew she was dead somewhere in the house. So i agree with you, if the "parents" had done this she would have been dumped but patsy ALONE could not dump her without waking up the whole house...i think she cracked her skull after jbr told her something about abuse from a family member perhaps...then she cared for the dying jbr until she thought she was dead then began to stage the body based on what she thought a kidnapping would look like..she may have molested her with the paint brush to hide the prior abuse that may have been discovered right before the attack..(evidence jbr soiled herself and bathed that night). So you know the rest of the story......

 

[eileenhawkeye]

What do you believe Patsy's motive was if she killed JonBenet intentionally?

 

[Mikebr]

What do you believe Patsy's motive was if she killed JonBenet intentionally?

If it is true that JBR soiled herself that evening, I think Patsy was perhaps upset...maybe a little drunk and on narcotics.....and put her in the tub. I think Patsy saw evidence of abuse on JBR and asked her about it. JBR probably named someone as a sexual abuser and Patsy reacted angrily and either slammed her in the tub or cracked her over the head with something. So was it an act of rage or an intentional act to silence JBR i don't know. There was evidence of chronic abuse according to some pathologists...so she probably had been abused over a period of time and whoever it was Patsy did not want to believe.

 

[Whocanitbenow]

I used to think that the Ramseys didn't dispose of JonBenet's body outside because although they had just killed her, it was an accident and she was still their daughter. It was a different situation from a sexual predator who kills a child who is a stranger to him, and then buries the body.

However, in the recent case of Lisa Irwin, I believe that she was killed by a family member in a fit of rage, just like JonBenet. Unlike JonBenet, I think the parent(s) disposed of Lisa's body outside. So if the Irwins are guilty, then my theory about why the Ramseys didn't get rid of the body doesn't hold up as much.

So now I am leaning more to the idea that appearence-obsessed Patsy didn't want JonBenet's body out there in the Colorado wilderness because she didn't want her "beauty queen" to be exposed to the elements.

I also think it's possible that Patsy knew they would get away with it because they were wealthy so there was no point in her disposing of JonBenet's body. With Lisa's parents, they may have thought that the only way they would get away with it is if the evidence from her body was eliminated.

I got to tell you this astounds me. I don't understand why people are still after the Ramseys on this case. Most the "evidence" was made up and speculation. Once Lou Smit came in, that pretty much wrapped it up for me. I believe that Jb was killed by a sick intruder. I am not as info tab savvy as most of you so getting all the info will be more of a chore for me. But I believe with all my heart that the Ramseys are innocent and that they had their lives stolen from them by the corrupt/incompetent CO police and DA.

OMg how can you possibly already have come to the conclusion that Lisa Irwin's parents have killed her and dumped her body outside??!! It's hardly surprising therefore that you don't give the Ramseys any benefit of doubt!

Yes, This!

What do you believe Patsy's motive was if she killed JonBenet intentionally?

I would love to know. By all accounts this woman worshipped this child. I am sorry I don't see it.