Hi, Alix. You're not alone in that regard. Michael Kane himself said that Patsy was a narcissistic person who, and I quote, "loved being known as the mother of a dead beauty queen."
Are the Ramseys involved or not?
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Hi, Alix. You're not alone in that regard. Michael Kane himself said that Patsy was a narcissistic person who, and I quote, "loved being known as the mother of a dead beauty queen."
You know, SuperDave, one of the biggest reasons that I am not very well-versed with this case is that the first time I saw PR speak on TV, she sickened me. I don't know what it was about her, but she struck me as a sociopath. I couldn't stand watching her, so I pretty much ignored everything.
When PR died, I was certain that BR would say something, or even JR. Then again, maybe JR is keeping him mouth shut now for the same reason he did back then: scandel is VERY bad for business. This is the kind of thing you loose clients over. (He's also a freak, but I don't know much about him, either)
vlpate
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Why did she bash her in the head AND garrote her? Why not just strangle and rape her? Same difference at the end of the day...right?
Nuisanceposter
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Especially when the child who is bedwetting had been potty-trained by age 3, but has since regressed in toileting skills, and that type of thing just doesn't work out that well with the rigorous pageant lifestyle the parent wants for the child.
Especially when that child isn't just wetting the bed at night almost every night, but she's also wetting - and soiling - herself while she's wide awake and nowhere near a bed...to the point that the parent laments to a friend whose daughter is also in pageants that the wetting/soiling has gotten to the point where the child suffers from "frequent infections that are hard to clear up from her always being in wet underwear."
Especially when every pair of underwear in the child's drawer shows soiling stains in them.
And especially when the parent is worn out from a whirlwind of society-based activity during the holiday season, hosting a party at her own house, then attending a party at another's, right before having to pack the kids and head out to join the extended family at another location for a second round of hosting Christmas..and she's a possibly extra worn out because that parent has had to recover from having battled stage four ovarian cancer a few years earlier, and who knows what chemo treatments may have done to her brain...
And the six year old will NOT stop wetting and soiling herself during both the day and at night.
It's fine to wear pull-ups under her regular night clothes, maybe even during the day, but this child's parent has geared the child's life to revolve around competing in regional and national level child beauty pageants. The pull-ups are just really not gonna work out that well under the pageant dresses, especially when the skirts basically flounce out around the upper thigh to display full leg...and heaven forbid the child have to go onstage without pull-ups and wet herself in front of all of the judges, not to mention the other kids and moms.
That type of pressure might make a parent lose control of themselves and have a single moment where they might snap...and then it's too late. Irreversible damage has been done.
Well, it's too late for the child, but it's not too late for the rest of the family. Quick, make it look like a murder - a kidnapping - an intruder - write a bogus ransom note that doesn't make sense with your left hand and stage the crime scene - anything other than what it really is.
See how that might happen?
This is my theory, and just my opinion based on the evidence as I understand it.
runsdeep
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what are top methods of violence as result of?
runsdeep
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poor woman...not. good thing she was wealthy woman then, imagine having to hold down 40 hr week job to buy groceries.
and...
tim mcgraw song "live like you were dying".
"Shaken-baby" syndrome (not limited to infants), smacking, hitting, abusive punishment (called corporal punishment in Steve Thomas's book), for starters.
BOESP,
Would be interesting to see a list of the top ten causes of death in children ranked in percentage terms, and where would sexual assault appear in the list?
.
runsdeep
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would garrotting/splitting skulls/blood from genitals be in that list? did PR have violent outbursts before or after?
It is?
Head trauma is way up there on the list in child homicides. A Google search yielded several statistical sites plus this site:
http://www.childdeathreview.org/causesCAN.htm
Nuisanceposter
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Thank you for the link - I found this to be highly applicable to JonBenet:
"Many children who die from physical abuse have been abused over time, but a one-time event often causes a death."
runsdeep said:
BBM.
I can't think of an example of Patsy having a violent outburst either before or after JonBenet's death, but we know from the Caylee Anthony case that one time is all it takes. Almost everyone who knew FCA said that she appeared to be a good mother and that previous abuse had not been suspected.
I kinda differ in opinion there. I suspect FCA was mildly abusive to Caylee, but that she wasn't careless enough to display in front of anyone who would take note...or that those who did see it turned a blind eye to it in denial (CA.)
The videos that show Caylee being filmed by someone who basically refuses to speak to her looks like some sort of emotional abuse to me, or at the very least, marked detachment from the person filming her - and in one video, you can see in the mirror behind Caylee that the person holding the camera is FCA.
Caylee tries desperately to draw the person filming her during these videos into conversation, with no avail, specifically in the one where she is her Spiderman shirt with crayons and a coloring book on the floor. I believe it is called "123, Cheese." She asks questions ("Want cheese?") but does not get any answer other than silence. You can see her become confused and uncomfortable (IMO) when she is unable to get FCA to respond to her, and she runs through her entire toddler knowledge of verbal skills to get any sort of reply, and when she cannot, she turns her back to the camera and talks and sings to herself.
It's pathetically sad and heart-breaking to watch. Also reminds me of the video of Caylee's second birthday, where CA shoves cake in FCA's face, and FCA in turn smears cake on Caylee's face. Pass the disrespect and humiliation on down the line through the female generations. Poor Caylee.
Factor in the people who said FCA was off with TonE in the bedroom at TonE's house while Caylee was wandering on her own in the apartment, opening the front door to strangers and standing on the balcony unattended by her mother - who seemingly could care less about Caylee's welfare in favor of getting herself some lovin' action, assuming that the others in the apartment are watching out for Caylee. She is clearly neglecting Caylee.
Neglect is abuse. If FCA's DT's claims of Caylee drowning in the backyard pool while FCA was sleeping or online are at all true (and I do not believe they are), that is definitely neglect.
I see this same sort of dynamic in the Ramseys.
JR is (IMO) fairly distant and somewhat emotionally detached from his second family. Where is he on Christmas Day when Patsy and the kids are are at home, enjoying gifts and getting ready to go to the W's for the party and then to Charlevoix for the second Christmas? He's out fancying his airplane.
Where is he while Patsy is calling 911 and a half-dozen friends? Apparently he's just standing there with the RN, not warning Patsy of the threats to JonBenet's life, seeingly unconcerned about her life being threatened to the point that he doesn't bother to tell Patsy to tell 911 about the threats, doesn't tell her not to call friends over, because they're going to cut JonBenet's head off. WTH. At least he pulled his head out of his butt long enough to tell Burke to go back to hiding in his bedroom. IMO.
Patsy herself seems to have regarded JonBenet as a possession, an extension of herself, a means to get the prize the Paugh girls were unable to get: the Miss America crown. Nedra and Pam Paugh, Patsy's mother and sister, both share that same goal for themselves through JonBenet, as if they too see her as a possession, and NP is known to have remarked that JonBenet will be a "Miss Pageant" whether she wants to or not.
From the link:" Caregivers may fail to seek medical care when their child is ill, leading to more serious illness and death."
Patsy knew JonBenet was having serious issues with regression in use of the toilet. She told her friend PG that JonBenet was suffering from frequent infections due to that. She took JB to the pediatrician, but when he dismissed it as nothing, she accepted that. I see this as neglect. Yeah, she got JB to the doctor, but then dropped the ball when told to ignore it.
I just do not understand how she could let it go. There is obviously a serious problem if JB had been potty-trained at age 3 and then slid back by age 6...I see the wetting/soiling issue as a desperate cry from JonBenet's brain to TRY to force her parents to deal with the abuse/neglect she was dealing with.
IMO, if Patsy had been the one who could not stop wetting/soiling herself for whatever reason, she would not have accepted a dismissal of the issue as nothing, something that would clear up on its own. I think she would have sought out a second opinion, or even gone to see a specialist. She brags in DOI about how well-covered the family was by health insurance. That should have covered JonBenet for the purpose of a second opinion or seeing a specialist, but Patsy chose to neglect the issue and let JonBenet suffer.
That segues into the evidence of sexual abuse. Both PR and JR seem to me to not be all that surprised that evidence of prior sexual abuse to the night JB was murdered, and they try to deflect the issue by reacting with indignation to the very idea that they were even being asked about it - as if they already knew and were ready to shoot it down, rather than react with real shock and begin questioning themselves as to who possibly could have done something like that to JB.
And then there's grandmother Nedra Paugh's curious statement about JonBenet only having been "a little bit molested." WHAT?!? Any sign of sexual abuse in a six year old should have a grandmother outraged, not trying to diminish the claim as way less severe than it really is. NO 6 yr old should be molested at all, and she's saying it was only a little bit. IMO, she already knew.
It's a lot like CA claiming that FCA only told "half-truths or mistruths" when CA is well aware that FCA is really one of the most prolific liars America has ever had to opportunity to witness.
IMO, at the end of it all, I believe JonBenet had been the victim of abuse and neglect for years, and the culmination of it was the night she was murdered.
A one-time event is all it takes.
vlpate
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Linda Hoffman Pugh stated that Patsy used to take JBR into the bathroom when she would have an accident and yell at her. Abusers find ways not to leave marks - corporal punishment to her privates would not leave marks that would be readily visible. I believe Patsy delivered up both emotional and physical abuse often, and covered by saying it was an accident or Burke did it. Just my opinion.
Nuisanceposter
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Ah, yes, thank you. I had forgotten about LHP saying that.
And you know, I was thinking...in reference to Patsy not following up on Dr. Beuf's assessment than JonBenet's toilet regression was nothing to be concerned about, something that would sort out in time, and not using the excellent health insurance they had to ensure JonBenet's good health (and relieving her of those frequent infections) by seeking out a second opinion or seeing a specialist like a pediatric urologist...
Contrast that with this account of a previous medical situation involving JonBenet and how Patsy responded to that with how she didn't respond to JonBenet's regression issues:
"In the summer of 1994, Burke accidentally hit JonBenet in the left cheek with a golf club he was swinging, an injury severe enough for Patsy Ramsey to take her daughter to a plastic surgeon, who did not feel surgery was warranted."
http://www.crimemagazine.com/murder-jonben%C3%A9t-ramsey
"In the summer of 1994 JonBenét was accidentally hit on the left cheek by a golf club swung by her brother, Burke, and her mother rushed the child to see a plastic surgeon, who thought Patsy was overreacting. The doctor apparently didn't understand the importance of an imperfection on a budding beauty queen."
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/JonBenet-Inside-Ramsey-Murder-Investigation/dp/product-description/0312978618"]Amazon.com: JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation (9780312978617): Steve Thomas, Donald A. Davis: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513%2BlJpgqWL.@@AMEPARAM@@513%2BlJpgqWL[/ame]
So Patsy will drop everything and rush JonBenet to medical attention if her award-winning beauty pageant face is threatened, but she doesn't see the need to take JonBenet to any sort of specialist, or even get a seond opinion other than Beuf's if JonBenet is wetting/soiling herself and the bed to where she has frequent infections.
IMO, Patsy's priorities are seriously out of balance here. I think perhaps she just went with Beuf's opinion and didn't seek any other because she just didn't want to give that much attention to the wetting/soiling problem...even if meant JonBenet had to endure genital/vaginal discomfort/irritation from infections. Poor baby. That must have been terribly unpleasant. Both to have no control over your bladder/bowels and to have your mother ignore it and just let you deal with it til it magically went away on its own.
I actually have to wonder if she really told Dr. Beuf the extent of it. It doesn't seem that she took JonBenet to Beuf's to get any sort of topical treatment for the infections, at least to lessen the irritation and discomfort.
JonBenet visited the school nurse three consecutive Mondays in December in the weeks leading up to the murder. Why?
And Patsy called Beuf's office 3 times in about an hour on December 17, 1996. Why? She just can't remember.
If I may quote myself:
"I've also wondered how many times Burke needed to see the doctor and why.
And why are the reasons for Patsy's three calls on 12/17/96 unknown? I know Patsy herself claimed to have forgotten why (yeah, right...), but no one else in the doctor's office, including the doctor, could provide a reason for why Patsy felt it was necessary to call three times in one day like that?
I tell you what...if I thought I had an issue big enough to warrant not one, not two, but three phone calls to my child's pediatrician in one day, I would remember what the reason for making those calls was...and I would certainly hope that someone in the doctor's office would write down or vaguely remember the reason for needing to call three times. I mean, the Rs weren't just Mr and Mrs Joe Average in Beuf's office - this doctor knew the Rs well enough to head over to where they were staying and administer medication to them when he found out about the murder!
How did he know where they were? Did they call for him and ask him over, or did he call and find out where they were and offer to come over?"
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51892&page=17
dizzychick
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What bad guy has the gall to write a lengthy ransom note on the Ramsey's own note pad? Quoting a bonus the hubby got at his job? Who would know what the amount was? Who writes like the handwriting on the note? Who quoted words/phrases from a book patsy was reading? Who would kidnap then instead of attempt a ransom , kill the child instead?
IMO it was Patsy that wrote the note, whomever killed the child? who knows someone in that house perhaps the older child?
IMO it was Patsy that wrote the note, whomever killed the child? who knows someone in that house perhaps the older child?
I seem to recall one of the R housekeepers- not LHP but one of the housekeepers before her (also called Linda?) saying that Br used to wet the bed, too, but when Patsy began to focus on JB and her pageant "career", his bedwetting stopped.
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