Post-Verdict:Jose Baez-Sanctions? Florida Bar Investigation!

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Purple Iris said:
Actually, the drowning idea from Cindy came up in the first week or so, when she did their Greta interview from their house.

She went as far as to say that someone drowns, many times, "they are brought back".
Cindy didn't believe that it had happened back then, but, it had certainly crossed her mind.

That was always another reason that I believed her parents knew what had happened, or Cindy did while keeping George out of the loop.
What better way to head off a rumor, or the trueth for that matter than to hit it head on and deny it if there were something more to "the drowning"??
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Not really disagreeing with you PI, but my memory of the first drowning theory is that one of the newsfolks or protesters waiting outside of the Orange County Jail shouted this question to CA as she went in to one of those first visits to OCA, and in turn, CA asked OCA.

But in the early days, CA was fixated on Caylee being kidnapped - I don't think she was even close to considering that Caylee was dead.

So a question to general peeps and not a response to PI, how do we come to terms with OCA, Cindy and JB plotting this defense is OCA is stating on her Probation form that she hasn't spoken to (or it sounds like had any communication that was completed) since October 2008?

I'm wondering if this OS was thought up by CA and JB - since we also know JB was not visiting OCA in those days either?
 
NocturnalLady said:
Yeah she's a con artist. She immediately thought "I may be able to use that excuse later because obviously my Mom is already willing to buy it." and then she stocked it away for the future... People like Casey read other people at lightening speed and are ready and willing to turn on a dime and adapt. I think Casey knew from very early on that she might someday use the drowning excuse if she was ever backed far enough into a corner.
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I don't give her this much credit at all. If you are looking for a cause of death for a 2.5 year old and there is a pool in the back garden, it is the most obvious excuse to go with ...IMO

If you are looking for a cause of death of small children in my area, excluding car accidents away from the home, the children either die in the pool, or they fall out of 2nd or 3rd story windows. I am amazed at how many times the last ones happens.
 
For what it's worth, and this is just my opinion, I think the drowning part of the OS was JB's contribution and GA's involvement and abuse was KC's contribution. I can just see JB sweating there in the last couple of weeks knowing that it looks soooooo bad and how in Hades is he going to counter all of this evidence. KC is sitting there, as she always has, refusing to accept or acknowledge, any responsibility for what has happened and wanting someone else to be blamed. A come to J meeting with KC becomes a brainstorming session and the OS is created. Since the drowning theory had been talked about in the very beginning, with the pool ladder moved discussion and LP's theory of KC using the shovel to remove the body from the pool, they decide to go with a drowning. But, in true KC form, she has to shift the blame to someone else. "If I'm going down, I'm taking him with me." So, she "creates" the rest of the story. It's easy for her, being an accomplished liar and all. She has bandied about the abuse allegations many times in the past and that is an easy go-to in this case. So ugly. So dirty. So vile. And the rest is history. JMO.
 
chefmom said:
For what it's worth, and this is just my opinion, I think the drowning part of the OS was JB's contribution and GA's involvement and abuse was KC's contribution. I can just see JB sweating there in the last couple of weeks knowing that it looks soooooo bad and how in Hades is he going to counter all of this evidence. KC is sitting there, as she always has, refusing to accept or acknowledge, any responsibility for what has happened and wanting someone else to be blamed. A come to J meeting with KC becomes a brainstorming session and the OS is created. Since the drowning theory had been talked about in the very beginning, with the pool ladder moved discussion and LP's theory of KC using the shovel to remove the body from the pool, they decide to go with a drowning. But, in true KC form, she has to shift the blame to someone else. "If I'm going down, I'm taking him with me." So, she "creates" the rest of the story. It's easy for her, being an accomplished liar and all. She has bandied about the abuse allegations many times in the past and that is an easy go-to in this case. So ugly. So dirty. So vile. And the rest is history. JMO.
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Agree - we all know the feeling of sitting with a bunch of information trying to find "the" solution and then all of a sudden - "Duh" there it is - the most obvious thing - we just hadn't "seen" it.

And although KC has always bandied about the sexual abuse to her various men and people she wanted to manipulate, I think JB is also the author of the details. To me that sounded like him - he is very sexually focused. I think JB viewed George as a dangerous person as far as OCA's credibility - he knew GA knew a lot of stuff he could seriously damage OCA with, and he'd believed almost since Day 1 that OCA was guilty. A loose cannon. So I do think this was JB's planning along with Mason that came up with the actual abuse details.

But what I want to know is who first offered the tidbit of the animal burials for JB to run with? Remember, we weren't seeing any record of JB actually visiting OCA prior to the trial, which always really surprised me, so can we assume this information came from Cindy? Because wasn't she the one person JB didn't ask about this at trial?

For me - this trial may have started off with JB defending "his girl" but as it wound down to the actual trial - it seemed to me that JB forgot all about guilt or innocence and it was all about winning - for him. That was his goal. His own ego.
 
logicalgirl said:
Agree - we all know the feeling of sitting with a bunch of information trying to find "the" solution and then all of a sudden - "Duh" there it is - the most obvious thing - we just hadn't "seen" it.

And although KC has always bandied about the sexual abuse to her various men and people she wanted to manipulate, I think JB is also the author of the details. To me that sounded like him - he is very sexually focused. I think JB viewed George as a dangerous person as far as OCA's credibility - he knew GA knew a lot of stuff he could seriously damage OCA with, and he'd believed almost since Day 1 that OCA was guilty. A loose cannon. So I do think this was JB's planning along with Mason that came up with the actual abuse details.

But what I want to know is who first offered the tidbit of the animal burials for JB to run with? Remember, we weren't seeing any record of JB actually visiting OCA prior to the trial, which always really surprised me, so can we assume this information came from Cindy? Because wasn't she the one person JB didn't ask about this at trial?

For me - this trial may have started off with JB defending "his girl" but as it wound down to the actual trial - it seemed to me that JB forgot all about guilt or innocence and it was all about winning - for him. That was his goal. His own ego.
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Completely agree! GA was definately the one who had to be "sacrificed". He is the one who went before the Grand Jury. He was an ex LEO who had been brutally honest with the investigating officers in the beginning. CA started the whole thing with her 911 call, but she redeemed herself by spending 3 years pushing the Nanny theory and proclaimimg how sweet and good KC really was. :sick: GA couldn't redeem himself. He never looked like he believed the lies they were spreading. KWIM? Take the LK interview. CA looks defiant and ready to defend the garbage she is spewing. GA looks like a kid who is trying to lie and is uncomfortable doing so. The eyes are the tell. GA's show guilt and shame. CA's show desperation and defiance. KC's show nothing. Blank, empty, hollow, nothing. JMO.
 
chefmom said:
Completely agree! GA was definately the one who had to be "sacrificed". He is the one who went before the Grand Jury. He was an ex LEO who had been brutally honest with the investigating officers in the beginning. CA started the whole thing with her 911 call, but she redeemed herself by spending 3 years pushing the Nanny theory and proclaimimg how sweet and good KC really was. :sick: GA couldn't redeem himself. He never looked like he believed the lies they were spreading. KWIM? Take the LK interview. CA looks defiant and ready to defend the garbage she is spewing. GA looks like a kid who is trying to lie and is uncomfortable doing so. The eyes are the tell. GA's show guilt and shame. CA's show desperation and defiance. KC's show nothing. Blank, empty, hollow, nothing. JMO.
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Agree - and I think JB was aware that CA could keep GA under her "thumb" everywhere but in the courtroom. It might have been his LE training, but I think George was the only one in the family who still had respect for the law and the state, and he would say what he was capable of saying in the courtroom. JB wouldn't be able to stop him. He needed to set up a way to "kneecap" George and he did it.
 
bayouland said:
Thanks for your take on this. The "suprise suprise" looked weird to me too but after the trial when I watched it again I asked myself "well did she look like this because Caylee really drown". Of course the answer in my mind was no - but I never could figure our why she looked weird like that. There was somehting in that look.
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I was WAY off..I went back and watched that video again. Should have looked before I leaped!...:floorlaugh:

FCA asks CA how are you feeling. CA starts to tell FCA that LA is sick, no ones doing well. I think FCA was thinking to herself..."Who cares, I don't..I'm the one sitting in jail, what are you complaining about!"

Then CA mentions the media incident with GA...FCA says "Ya, I heard"
She always says that whether she knows or not. When CA says someone "just" said...meaning it just happened on the way in so FCA couldn't have heard about it already?

CA says..Someone just said Caylee was dead this morning, that she drown in the pool.

IMO...
CA says this fast, all one sentence with no pause. FCA is trying to process what CA is saying. If you pause at 2:33, you see her doing this. First part she heard is..someone just said Caylee was dead this morning. Now FCA knows Caylee is dead already. FCA eyes get wide, her eyes are fixed, she stops. If you look close the edges of her mouth go down. If you watch it enough times you can actually see FCA's face fall. Much like you would if someone said something that caught you off guard and you have an Oh Chit moment. I wonder if shes thinking...Oh my God, they found her body already.

When CA says "Thats the newest story out there"...You can see FCA recover pretty quickly...it's ironic she says..surprise..surprise

This video was from Aug 14, 2008. FCA had only been in jail for about a month. I believe I was wrong, I think FCA was reacting because she thought LE had found Caylees body and she knew what they would find when they did....

It's interesting to watch GA also...his wheels are turning after FCA comment, he keeps looking to his right, maybe something just caught his eye...jmo
 
MsMacGyver said:
I was WAY off..I went back and watched that video again. Should have looked before I leaped!...:floorlaugh:

FCA asks CA how are you feeling. CA starts to tell FCA that LA is sick, no ones doing well. I think FCA was thinking to herself..."Who cares, I don't..I'm the one sitting in jail, what are you complaining about!"

Then CA mentions the media incident with GA...FCA says "Ya, I heard"
She always says that whether she knows or not. When CA says someone "just" said...meaning it just happened on the way in so FCA couldn't have heard about it already?

CA says..Someone just said Caylee was dead this morning, that she drown in the pool.

IMO...
CA says this fast, all one sentence with no pause. FCA is trying to process what CA is saying. If you pause at 2:33, you see her doing this. First part she heard is..someone just said Caylee was dead this morning. Now FCA knows Caylee is dead already. FCA eyes get wide, her eyes are fixed, she stops. If you look close the edges of her mouth go down. If you watch it enough times you can actually see FCA's face fall. Much like you would if someone said something that caught you off guard and you have an Oh Chit moment. I wonder if shes thinking...Oh my God, they found her body already.

When CA says "Thats the newest story out there"...You can see FCA recover pretty quickly...it's ironic she says..surprise..surprise

This video was from Aug 14, 2008. FCA had only been in jail for about a month. I believe I was wrong, I think FCA was reacting because she thought LE had found Caylees body and she knew what they would find when they did....

It's interesting to watch GA also...his wheels are turning after FCA comment, he keeps looking to his right, maybe something just caught his eye...jmo
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I do recall that Cindy looked like hell in that video. Maybe she knew. I've often wondered if she went into that woods looking for Caylee herself. I know if it was one of my grandkids I would have.
 
bayouland said:
I do recall that Cindy looked like hell in that video. Maybe she knew. I've often wondered if she went into that woods looking for Caylee herself. I know if it was one of my grandkids I would have.
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If it was one of my grandkids, there is nothing I wouldn't do to find them and bring them home. But, I don't recall CA looking anywhere. I remember her yelling at the cameras that everyone needed to get off their a$$es and go find Caylee. I remember her claiming she would knock on every door to find her. But, for the life of me, I can't remember one time that CA ever actually looked or searched for Caylee. I do remember them getting batphones because they were afraid the police had bugged their phones. Who does that? Someone who REALLY wants their missing loved one found will ask the LE to put a trace or bug on their phone in case the kidnapper calls. Not the A's! They circumvented LE's effort to find Caylee almost from the get-go. They were covering and protecting KC. Caylee was just an obstacle at that point. JMO.
 
bayouland said:
I do recall that Cindy looked like hell in that video. Maybe she knew. I've often wondered if she went into that woods looking for Caylee herself. I know if it was one of my grandkids I would have.
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For me the critical time when Cindy "knew" was when she was in the video that she was almost comatose. What I don't know to this day is if she actually did know for a fact or if that was when reality hit her - her own "knowing".

I don't share other posters belief that JB was sharing any information regarding Caylee's death with the Anthony's in the fall of 2008. Whether he knew or suspected - I don't know - but I do believe he needed Cindy to beat the kidnapping drum for as long as he could keep her doing it...

And people talking about the psychics and Dom "knowing" where the body was. People who are phony psychics aren't stupid. Pull up a google map of that area, and knowing the fact that mothers who kill their children usually dump them close to home - how hard is it to guess where she was - and if you have google earth zoom in - throw in the pavers just to add to the mystique. Bah!
 
chefmom said:
If it was one of my grandkids, there is nothing I wouldn't do to find them and bring them home. But, I don't recall CA looking anywhere. I remember her yelling at the cameras that everyone needed to get off their a$$es and go find Caylee. I remember her claiming she would knock on every door to find her. But, for the life of me, I can't remember one time that CA ever actually looked or searched for Caylee. I do remember them getting batphones because they were afraid the police had bugged their phones. Who does that? Someone who REALLY wants their missing loved one found will ask the LE to put a trace or bug on their phone in case the kidnapper calls. Not the A's! They circumvented LE's effort to find Caylee almost from the get-go. They were covering and protecting KC. Caylee was just an obstacle at that point. JMO.
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I think that idea came from big thinker Baez and George...Baez was absolutely paranoid about anyone talking to OCA in those days. Well, he still is now I think about it.
 
logicalgirl said:
For me the critical time when Cindy "knew" was when she was in the video that she was almost comatose. What I don't know to this day is if she actually did know for a fact or if that was when reality hit her - her own "knowing".

I don't share other posters belief that JB was sharing any information regarding Caylee's death with the Anthony's in the fall of 2008. Whether he knew or suspected - I don't know - but I do believe he needed Cindy to beat the kidnapping drum for as long as he could keep her doing it...

And people talking about the psychics and Dom "knowing" where the body was. People who are phony psychics aren't stupid. Pull up a google map of that area, and knowing the fact that mothers who kill their children usually dump them close to home - how hard is it to guess where she was - and if you have google earth zoom in - throw in the pavers just to add to the mystique. Bah!
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BBM. Yes! This, to me also, is when she knew for sure that Caylee was gone. It was right after DC's search of those woods. She could barely hold herself up and looked heavily medicated.
 
bayouland said:
I do recall that Cindy looked like hell in that video. Maybe she knew. I've often wondered if she went into that woods looking for Caylee herself. I know if it was one of my grandkids I would have.
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You are much stronger than I am...I know I would do whatever I could but I also know I would never stand up to that sight.....:hand:

I have days much like today where I want to sit and cry over all these babies turning up missing or killed by a parent or stranger. We farm girls consider people in the next state as our neighbors so little Lisa's case feels so close to home and with more info coming out it's sounding way too similar to Andrea Y. I hope I'm wrong. It really doesn't matter to me why mothers kill, it's the thought of the action they take to end their childs life and it takes a sick mind to accomplish.

I believe the last honest words that came from CA's mouth was the 3rd 911 call....jmo
 
chefmom said:
If it was one of my grandkids, there is nothing I wouldn't do to find them and bring them home. But, I don't recall CA looking anywhere. I remember her yelling at the cameras that everyone needed to get off their a$$es and go find Caylee. I remember her claiming she would knock on every door to find her. But, for the life of me, I can't remember one time that CA ever actually looked or searched for Caylee. I do remember them getting batphones because they were afraid the police had bugged their phones. Who does that? Someone who REALLY wants their missing loved one found will ask the LE to put a trace or bug on their phone in case the kidnapper calls. Not the A's! They circumvented LE's effort to find Caylee almost from the get-go. They were covering and protecting KC. Caylee was just an obstacle at that point. JMO.
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Exactly my point. If everything was lied about, twisted and distorted, how would one know whether she went in the woods or not......even when she was saying GO FIND CAYEE.

Everything, and I mean everything about CA is a lie.
 
logicalgirl said:
For me the critical time when Cindy "knew" was when she was in the video that she was almost comatose. What I don't know to this day is if she actually did know for a fact or if that was when reality hit her - her own "knowing".

I don't share other posters belief that JB was sharing any information regarding Caylee's death with the Anthony's in the fall of 2008. Whether he knew or suspected - I don't know - but I do believe he needed Cindy to beat the kidnapping drum for as long as he could keep her doing it...

And people talking about the psychics and Dom "knowing" where the body was. People who are phony psychics aren't stupid. Pull up a google map of that area, and knowing the fact that mothers who kill their children usually dump them close to home - how hard is it to guess where she was - and if you have google earth zoom in - throw in the pavers just to add to the mystique. Bah!
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Are we still talking about the suprise suprise video? If so, I agree with you. She knew. She looked so bad. She looked so beaten down.

Yes, I also agree that Cindy beat the kidnapping drum for a lonnnngggg time which explains exactly why she wasnt looking for Caylee.
 
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