Parents of baby Lisa Press Release 10/21/11

[KCMommie]

I think it's important to remember that the Parents DID NOT speak with local media. The very people who they need the most THEY chose to isolate. It's been very bizarre to watch this locally. Allie Kemp along with other families missing still have a tremendous relationship with local media. Within a few days the parents were isolated and not giving local discussion. At the same time we learn later from Atty Joe and Bill Stanton that is exactly when they started communicating with them. These parents have only spent appx 2 hours a day with local investigators to find their child. To me? It reeks of attention seeking behavior, but NOT for that baby girl who needs it.

 

[Boytwnmom]

the parents themselves said their child was kidnapped FROM the house, that's the definition of probable cause to believe a crime occurred there. There's no way a judge wouldn't issue a search warrant for the premises from which an infant was kidnapped. LE had no reason to get a search warrant until the consensual search uncovered evidence that likely cast doubt on the parents version of the crime. While the defense atty might decry LE for getting a warrant, the state knows all too well that this same defense atty would later be arguing to exclude evidence for failure to obtain a warrant and for LE going beyond the scope of the consensual search. This isn't a game. LE is looking for a missing infant. Press releases from defense attorneys bolstering their clients is an odd way to assist in the search when the parents have refused to meet with LE.

Actually that's not necessarily correct. LE needs probable cause and they did not have it.

Until they had the "hit" by the search dog, there was not PC for a warrant (as proven by the fact that no search warrant existed before. LE would have gotten it as soon as they possibly could if they had the PC.) So the family actually gave them the opportunity to search the house, which led to the search warrant. Had they refused to allow LE to search, LE would not have had probable cause.

If they were guilty of something bad, they would certainly have refused to allow LE to search on Monday 10/17. Since they now have legal counsel, they would absolutely have been told to not allow the search if there was any teeny, remote possibility that they are guilty.

The fact that they allowed this search indicates to me that they are either innocent, or incredibly arrogant. And there is no evidence of the latter.

 

[gwenabob]

Except that it's not. After a 17-hour search, a cadaver dog "hitting" is more likely to be a false hit than a correct one - the tired dog is simply desperate to pick up on clues as to what the handler wants it to find.

The dogs were not involved in the 17 hour search. They don't use dogs that way. The dogs were used for just a few minutes on Monday, which allowed them to get the warrant for the 17 hour search later in the week.

 

[gwenabob]

No, but they appear to have police who fixate on mothers, instead of following harder leads.

Oftentimes it is good old-fashioned police work that causes the investigation to lead to the mothers. Sometimes mothers *do* actually kill their offspring. They are not exempt because they are mothers.

 

[Karmaa]

And yet people are mocking Bill Stanton for bringing up the extent of the dog's training.

Even the experts (posting on another thread) are saying that not all dogs are well trained or certified. Plus the handlers are a large part of how good the dogs are. So questioning the competency of the dogs is not just a way of diverting attention.

I am NOT saying this happened, but imagine this scenario: say LE wants to do a serious search of the house - involving knocking out walls and removing plumbing, etc. They suspect that the homeowners are not going to allow this. So, they get a cadaver dog to come in and sniff around. Maybe they deliberately get one who they know is not really well trained. They don't really care, because they are not really looking for a cadaver - they just want the probable cause to get the invasive warrant. So the dog hits (falsely) and bingo - LE has probable cause. Since they will never actually have to defend the "hit" in court (they just wanted it for the warrant) they are pretty safe.

I reiterate, I am not saying that this happened, and I do not THINK this happened, but it certainly could have.

 

[Donjeta]

And yet people are mocking Bill Stanton for bringing up the extent of the dog's training.

You're right, I was mocking him but not because he brought up the extent of the dog's training because he didn't, IMO, but because he implied that it was a serious possibility that FBI brought an untrained dog on site. If he had had something educational to say about the different types of HRD dog training and how it relates to ancient scents vs. fresh scents it would have been different. But now he just sounded ridiculous. Clutching at straws. MOO.

 

[MissJames]

I continue to look at Kyron Hormon's mother as an example of someone who did all the right things after Kyron went missing. She was investigated ,because she was the non-custodial parent. Her past,while not always pretty ,was laid out for world to see.She never made excuses,kept Kyron in the news,set aside personal feelings for Terri and her ex,for awhile ,to keep the case moving forward. She went beyond cooperating with LE.
Desiree is still out their ,keeping Kyron front and center. She's the hero in that story,IMO.
JMO

 

[marge_rita]

With respect, finding Lisa is not her job. That's LE's job.

True, which is why we have LE and professional searchers doing that job.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Since LE is saying they aren't cooperating and answering the pertinent questions regarding Baby Lisa's disappearance, I don't believe anything in the parents press release, especially from a DEFENSE attorney. Give it a minute and the parents will change their story again. :banghead:

There was a huge window prior to this week, that these 2 stop cooperating. It wasn't until they obtained a famous defense attorney did they start cooperating. Not sure if I buy the man in a diaper thing, unless it was one of the parents. They do not want the media to blame the family, ok then why a cadaver dog hit near the bed of mom?

 

[marge_rita]

JMO, but I think finding Lisa is ALL of our jobs.

I don't see it that way, because I don't live locally. That being said I would keep my eyes open no matter what state I lived in, in case there's the slightest chance she's alive.

imo

 

[marge_rita]

I think it's important to remember that the Parents DID NOT speak with local media. The very people who they need the most THEY chose to isolate. It's been very bizarre to watch this locally. Allie Kemp along with other families missing still have a tremendous relationship with local media. Within a few days the parents were isolated and not giving local discussion. At the same time we learn later from Atty Joe and Bill Stanton that is exactly when they started communicating with them. These parents have only spent appx 2 hours a day with local investigators to find their child. To me? It reeks of attention seeking behavior, but NOT for that baby girl who needs it.

Not speaking to local media, not hanging missing posters, admitting being drunk and hiring a lawyer, highly smells of guilt.

IMO

 

[marge_rita]

Oftentimes it is good old-fashioned police work that causes the investigation to lead to the mothers. Sometimes mothers *do* actually kill their offspring. They are not exempt because they are mothers.

Wise words.

 

[Tink]

What could an innocent person say to convince you that they are innocent?

IMO this family is doing everything that an innocent family would do.

And yes, that includes getting lawyers, only talking to national media, telling the world all of the possible suspicious things around the case. If these people are "psyching us out" then they are diabolically brilliant. So far, there is nothing that can't be explained with an innocent explanation, if one chooses to look in that direction. Especially since most of what we know is speculation, and we do not know most of what LE knows. (Even the info released in the search warrant was fairly cryptic, obviously in case it was not sealed.) If one is only looking for the worst-case scenario they will view this case in one way, and unless that baby is found in the arms of some crazy person, they will never believe that the parents are innocent. (And even if she were found under those conditions, some people would STILL believe that the parents sold her, traded her for drugs or something equally evil.)

I would like to believe that the parents are innocent and that baby Lisa is being cared for lovingly by someone who took her because they wanted a baby to love.

But here's what's made me suspicious:

Deborah's story keeps changing. At first she put the baby to bed at 10:30. Then she put the baby to bed at 7:30 and checked on her at 10:30. Then she put the baby to bed at 6:40 and thinks she checked on her but doesn't remember when (because she was drinking). Those are big changes, and it would be critically important to get this timeline right if your baby has been kidnapped.

Jeremy's story has also changed, although less dramatically.

They did allow the two boys to be interviewed at one point but have refused to allow any further interviews. Why? Deborah says it would be traumatic for the boys, but these interviewers are well-trained and know how to talk to kids without traumatizing them. I think that as her story has changed, it's crucial for the police to be able to re-interview the boys and see if they have any info to fit with the new timeline.

I think an innocent person is open and honest from the start. I don't see that here. I see a story that changes as new evidence comes out (eg the video showing Deborah buying wine, leading to her admitting to drinking and possibly passing out), and that's concerning.

Tink

 

[KCMommie]

I've seen quite a bit of rhetoric about KCPD 'doing their jobs' I can assure you our town has the finest of police. These investigators, be it Fire, Police, or any other capacity are people. People who are required to live in the Metro area. This is where they call home. KC has changed, but it's not THAT big. The y have to wake up doing these searches every single day, never knowing what morbid sight they may or may not see. Then at the same time they have to release the stress from that either way! I feel for them and I absolutely support them. No question in my mind they want truth. They want this baby alive and home safe. They are not going to fabricate anything just to close a case! Whereas some bobble-talking head from NY could give a ---- less other than $$ banking on Lisa's life. Same goes for Stanton. Joe has a reputation for being the devils advocate for a reason! He's simply not credible. However, I love our law. I'm one of the few that see the argument of following Letter (of law) vs. Spirit. I never look to our law to find Justice, only to find balance. Sometimes we have those moments we get the pleasure of Justice being served, but not really. A life may be gone, innocence is taken, and we are never the same even if they 'get' the bad guy! I think KCPD has handled this well, in fact I'm impressed. Just thoughts about the accusations of these parents. In the movie, 'Rainmaker' with Matt Damon, he says; "As a lawyer, there's a momment when you cross a line and you become nothing more than a shark in dirty water" or something to that effect. I think this is a good example of what we're seeing. It's sad. This is a child missing, and I pray to God they find her alive, but evidentially it's not looking good. The ver people that are closest to her. The people she has to rely on for protection and shelter are failing her - FOR NO GOOD REASON. It's not only sad; it's horrifying.

 

[cluciano63]

If only Mom would make this a little less about her and more about her missing baby...that's all most people want, really, including LE, IMO.

 

[natsound]

I've seen quite a bit of rhetoric about KCPD 'doing their jobs' I can assure you our town has the finest of police. These investigators, be it Fire, Police, or any other capacity are people. People who are required to live in the Metro area. This is where they call home. KC has changed, but it's not THAT big. The y have to wake up doing these searches every single day, never knowing what morbid sight they may or may not see. Then at the same time they have to release the stress from that either way! I feel for them and I absolutely support them. No question in my mind they want truth. They want this baby alive and home safe. They are not going to fabricate anything just to close a case! Whereas some bobble-talking head from NY could give a ---- less other than $$ banking on Lisa's life. Same goes for Stanton. Joe has a reputation for being the devils advocate for a reason! He's simply not credible. However, I love our law. I'm one of the few that see the argument of following Letter (of law) vs. Spirit. I never look to our law to find Justice, only to find balance. Sometimes we have those moments we get the pleasure of Justice being served, but not really. A life may be gone, innocence is taken, and we are never the same even if they 'get' the bad guy! I think KCPD has handled this well, in fact I'm impressed. Just thoughts about the accusations of these parents. In the movie, 'Rainmaker' with Matt Damon, he says; "As a lawyer, there's a momment when you cross a line and you become nothing more than a shark in dirty water" or something to that effect. I think this is a good example of what we're seeing. It's sad. This is a child missing, and I pray to God they find her alive, but evidentially it's not looking good. The ver people that are closest to her. The people she has to rely on for protection and shelter are failing her - FOR NO GOOD REASON. It's not only sad; it's horrifying.

I am a "spirit of the law" type, but thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I agree that the people Lisa has to rely on have betrayed her in the worst way.

 

[annalia]

No, but they appear to have police who fixate on mothers, instead of following harder leads.

What harder leads have they ignored?

 

[KCMommie]

I am a "spirit of the law" type, but thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I agree that the people Lisa has to rely on have betrayed her in the worst way.

I agree too! The Spirit of the law should always remain the focus! Its situations like these idiot Attorneys create that force us to refine the 'letter' to match at times. even then, there's gonna be sharks in the water.

I do however believe in innocent until proven guilty. We do not know Little Lisa is dead, or alive. What we DO know is that the person responsible, apparently the last one to see Lisa alive, has not been honest and forthcoming, is not even interested in showing up, and has been caught lying. She also has a history of creating chaos.

She is not credible. Any attorney who tries to justify this behavior is not credible to me either. They are attempting control by confusion. I think people are smarter than that. At least I hope so!

This is not a CSI episode!! While I am sure it's helpin ratings Their child, her baby daughter, is GONE! HELLO?? yeah. No. Fat chance she gets any sympathy from me. LE is not perfect, but at the VERY least-- they show up!!

Lots of things going on in KC that I don't think make the media. Usually more than one search and revisit has been going on at a time. I also think they know quite a bit more than we do and are trying, or have been trying to prevent those things to become hot topics until they get to the bottom of them. No the parents are NOT helping. It's awful to watch.

Ugh. What is wrong with these peope?

 

[MsMacGyver]

Although I think the parents are guilty, I feel they can't win when it comes to the media. If they keep quiet, they are accused of not wanting to find Lisa. If they constantly talk to the media, then they are trying to be celebrities. It seems that we form our opinions about how the parents have handled the media based on whether we think they are guilty or not.

Thats a good point. The problem for me is what they say while in front of the camera. I watch some of the TH's and shake my head. About a week ago I was watching Nancy G. She had the lady psychologist with the bad wig on. They were discussing the video of Lisas room, paying attention to the toys. This lady said that if there were no toys for a child over a year old then it's a sign the mother wasn't counting on her child being alive after that age. I believe thats the most ignorant thing I've heard... ever! What mother buys toys for a 5 year old when her child is 11 months? I really couldn't believe this was coming out of this ladys mouth! Sometimes the media spins their own tales, reports incorrect information...ullhair:

I always TRY to look before I leap. Doesn't always happen but I do try. This is where parents have to decide how to handle their crisis. I've mentioned before, theres really no system in place, no agency to help parents when faced with such a terrible situation. Some will judge...thats where you decide for yourself which direction to run. Me personally, when the parents focus totally on finding their child, when they appear genuine, my gut usually steers me in the right direction. The first time I heard DB speak my hinky meter lit up....:sigh:

 

[katydid23]

Thats a good point. The problem for me is what they say while in front of the camera. I watch some of the TH's and shake my head. About a week ago I was watching Nancy G. She had the lady psychologist with the bad wig on. They were discussing the video of Lisas room, paying attention to the toys. This lady said that if there were no toys for a child over a year old then it's a sign the mother wasn't counting on her child being alive after that age. I believe thats the most ignorant thing I've heard... ever! What mother buys toys for a 5 year old when her child is 11 months? I really couldn't believe this was coming out of this ladys mouth! Sometimes the media spins their own tales, reports incorrect information...ullhair:

I always TRY to look before I leap. Doesn't always happen but I do try. This is where parents have to decide how to handle their crisis. I've mentioned before, theres really no system in place, no agency to help parents when faced with such a terrible situation. Some will judge...thats where you decide for yourself which direction to run. Me personally, when the parents focus totally on finding their child, when they appear genuine, my gut usually steers me in the right direction. The first time I heard DB speak my hinky meter lit up....:sigh:

I remember that . [BBM] I was thinking WTH? And it was so funny because right when that lady was saying how "Baby Lisa had no toys," the camera pans down and there are all of these little kitchen sets and that Barbie type playhouse thing. LOL BUSTED.