TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[ThoughtFox]

ITA, TN is still the good ole boys club although probably better than the last time she filed. Until the court ruled on the finances she would not be able to force him to give her a dime although the court will usually force the spouse to pay whatever child support for example it determines from the date of filing. I think he probably spent the night at home, weighing his options, perhaps looking through her belongings and stewing. This time Karen seemed more determined and she was standing her ground. The control he once had over her was gone.....she was out at a party moving on. Divorce can become a big game and typically he who spends the most wins. But, this time she was prepared to fight, she stayed in the house and was working whatever job she could. She was no longer intimidated by him and he probably couldn't stand it.
MOO

Men who pay income tax in Tennessee have to pay child support and there are ways of getting it out of them. That's determined on the State level, not the county level, as far as I know. (My husband has worked for State Social Services for 25 years). Of course some bonus or extra money her husband had might or might not be considered part of his income - it depends on whether his job took taxes out on him for it.

 

[cluciano63]

It was the husband who waited so long, and did so only after calling around to all the friends and his grown son.

The neighbor who found the car called him earlier in the day, I believe.

There's nothing around where that car was parked except for one farm. I doubt many cars passed that way on a Sunday morning before dawn either. Probably the police never patrolled out there much either - more's the pity.

So as with the Gail Palmgren case, it was really up to the husband when to call LE and he took his own sweet time. I cannot explain it, but he knew where the car was early in the day.

I wonder how he explains is; how her car being there and her being missing could be in any way normal, or not worrying...
I would guess the atmosphere in that house was very tense indeed, regardless of how the older son may have wanted to see things...JMO

 

[ThoughtFox]

I wonder how he explains is; how her car being there and her being missing could be in any way normal, or not worrying...
I would guess the atmosphere in that house was very tense indeed, regardless of how the older son may have wanted to see things...JMO

I agree, but kids often idealized both parents and just want everything to be normal. I feel so sorry for the children - its breaks my heart, truly.

For instance, just describing where Karen was found to my husband the other day - a woman's body hidden under kudzu in an old graveyard on Halloween night then discovered by people investigating headstones - his eyes got wider and wider, and he said, "This sounds like Edgar Allen Poe. Or William Faulkner's Southern Gothic."

It makes me wonder how these poor kids will ever come to terms with something so macabre. It must be devastating.

 

[otto]

Men who pay income tax in Tennessee have to pay child support and there are ways of getting it out of them. That's determined on the State level, not the county level, as far as I know. (My husband has worked for State Social Services for 25 years). Of course some bonus or extra money her husband had might or might not be considered part of his income - it depends on whether his job took taxes out on him for it.

If this is a spousal homicide, I hope this is a wake-up call for divorce law in Tn. Karen should have been granted either the house and her husband required to leave, or she should have been granted immediate interim spousal and child support so she could move out. It's absolutely barbaric that she, a wife and mother for the last 20 years, was unable to live independent of her husband while she petitioned the court for divorce. No judge in his right mind should have allowed this to happen. Once the affidavit for divorce was filed, there should have been a court hearing after 48 hours with interim finances and living arrangements being the first order of business. I think Karen may have needed an advocate, like a knowledgable lawyer, to advise her of her rights, alternatives and the dangers surrounding divorce.

My daughter's husband of 11 years walked out in Sept and even though it is all amicable, where his visitation with the children is in the matrimonial home while she disappears for a few hours a week, there is tension between them. It's hard to describe, but it's an antagonistic attitude or something like that. She's not herself ... but I can't put my finger on what is not right. I can't believe that two people that are separating their lives, with all the resentments that can include, should be living together. The first hint of anger I heard from my daughter was when she described a friend of hers whose husband emailed her from Afghanistan to tell her that he's leaving her ... finally my daughter made a comment about men that abandon their families and how pathetic they are. I think that so much is internalized when families fall apart - everyone trying to be on their best behavior in the public eye ... something like that, that they can't see the danger in front of their noses.

 

[otto]

I agree, but kids often idealized both parents and just want everything to be normal. I feel so sorry for the children - its breaks my heart, truly.

For instance, just describing where Karen was found to my husband the other day - a woman's body hidden under kudzu in an old graveyard on Halloween night then discovered by people investigating headstones - his eyes got wider and wider, and he said, "This sounds like Edgar Allen Poe. Or William Faulkner's Southern Gothic."

It makes me wonder how these poor kids will ever come to terms with something so macabre. It must be devastating.

Throw in a full moon and the red lunar eclipse and it's a horror story.

 

[Bravo]

There had to be tension. For it not. Just off the charts. Now if we heard of a couple living under the same roof and slitting amicably with no death? Now we have a murder in close proximity of the house. No brainer for me :maddening:

 

[belimom]

If this is a spousal homicide, I hope this is a wake-up call for divorce law in Tn. Karen should have been granted either the house and her husband required to leave, or she should have been granted immediate interim spousal and child support so she could move out. It's absolutely barbaric that she, a wife and mother for the last 20 years, was unable to live independent of her husband while she petitioned the court for divorce. No judge in his right mind should have allowed this to happen. Once the affidavit for divorce was filed, there should have been a court hearing after 48 hours with interim finances and living arrangements being the first order of business. I think Karen may have needed an advocate, like a knowledgable lawyer, to advise her of her rights, alternatives and the dangers surrounding divorce.

My daughter's husband of 11 years walked out in Sept and even though it is all amicable, where his visitation with the children is in the matrimonial home while she disappears for a few hours a week, there is tension between them. It's hard to describe, but it's an antagonistic attitude or something like that. She's not herself ... but I can't put my finger on what is not right. I can't believe that two people that are separating their lives, with all the resentments that can include, should be living together. The first hint of anger I heard from my daughter was when she described a friend of hers whose husband emailed her from Afghanistan to tell her that he's leaving her ... finally my daughter made a comment about men that abandon their families and how pathetic they are. I think that so much is internalized when families fall apart - everyone trying to be on their best behavior in the public eye ... something like that, that they can't see the danger in front of their noses.

I don't know what the law is in TN, but I'm from GA. When my mother filed for divorce from my father, there was not an initial hearing for almost a month. They live in a small town as well, and the judge only comes down once a month, so they had to get on the schedule for the next visit. It was then that interim/temporary spousal support, living situations, etc, were all delineated.

I wonder if that were the case here? Or had their already been a hearing?

 

[otto]

There had to be tension. For it not. Just off the charts. Now if we heard of a couple living under the same roof and slitting amicably with no death? Now we have a murder in close proximity of the house. No brainer for me :maddening:

Without doubt there had to be tension. It would have been just below the surface, almost waiting for an excuse to emerge. Hurtful things would have been said with an attitude of "what have I got to lose". Karen's life was taking off and she was excited about her future. Her husband's life was collapsing and he was facing a lonely existence where all the toys and the big house would decay. He was losing the power he had as head of the family. The sons were adults and had left town, the girls needed their mom at this time in their lives.

Does anyone know what the sleeping arrangements were ... given they were divorcing? In the Nancy Cooper case (NC - continued to live together after divorce decision, Nancy murdered), Nancy took the master bedroom and locked the bedroom door at night. The two daughters shared a bedroom. The husband slept in either the extra bedroom or the office.

There must have been spare bedrooms since the two oldest boys had moved out. They probably had their own rooms. That would mean the house had four or five bedrooms: master, two girls, one for each of the sons. Maybe there were four bedrooms: master, girls shared until boys moved out, that would leave one extra bedroom where Karen might sleep ... or she might have started sleeping with one of her daughters. If that's the case, why would she move them into the same bedroom after they had gone to sleep in their own bedrooms?

 

[CanManEh]

I wonder how he explains is; how her car being there and her being missing could be in any way normal, or not worrying...
I would guess the atmosphere in that house was very tense indeed, regardless of how the older son may have wanted to see things...JMO

You say that like the older boy was just a child and wants mommy and daddy to stay together. I don't know his age for a fact but he's no child he looks to be 18 at least. Iam sure he can tell what it's like in the home not how he may have wanted it to be as you say.

 

[otto]

I don't know what the law is in TN, but I'm from GA. When my mother filed for divorce from my father, there was not an initial hearing for almost a month. They live in a small town as well, and the judge only comes down once a month, so they had to get on the schedule for the next visit. It was then that interim/temporary spousal support, living situations, etc, were all delineated.

I wonder if that were the case here? Or had their already been a hearing?

Thanks! That's a very long time. Here, petition affidavits must be filed a minimum of 48 hours prior to a hearing. Usually the first appearance is scheduled in 48 hours, depending on lawyer's schedules. Karen filed on Dec 10 and was murdered three weeks later on Oct 30. Would Dyersburg have a regular court schedule?

 

[otto]

I've put together an illustration that hopefully helps clarify where Karen was found in relation to the cross, the cemetery and Harness Road. Harness Road connects the car (one end of the road), the body (almost the other end of the road; 3 miles away) and the house (1/4 mile from the car, but in between). She was spotted about 40 feet off the road (per: people that found her) and about 100 yards from the 2006 Tornado Memorial Cross. The top photo with the X was posted in the newspaper.

Top photo link:
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1794468/photo/1591288.html

Here's a close of aerial photo of the actual area

Here's a general map of the significant evidence areas so far

 

[otto]

You say that like the older boy was just a child and wants mommy and daddy to stay together. I don't know his age for a fact but he's no child he looks to be 18 at least. Iam sure he can tell what it's like in the home not how he may have wanted it to be as you say.

It was said, early on, that the sons had told Karen that she should stay in the marriage for the sake of the daughters, just like she did for them.

 

[otto]

Also, the image above from the newspaper, that was after the kudzu was cut down in a circle around where Karen was lying on the ground.

How would you get a body into kudzu anyway? I read that a machete is needed to cut through it once it takes hold and that a trunk can be about 6 inches in diameter ... does that sound right? I read that this vine grows one foot in one day and can grow as much as 60 feet in a season. It has shoots that grow rapidly towards the sun, use other objects as a hosts (anything from trees to cars and barns) and kills/destroys everything in it's wake. It was widely seeded from 1886 - 1972 through the eastern US coast to prevent erosion and provide shade or lifestock feed. Left unattended for a season, kudzu took over the house. The photos and video-propaganda posted upthread are much appreciated.

My question is: how would someone get a body into that tangled forest when the plant was thriving at the end of October? Did the branches bend, allowing her to fall to the ground? I did read that the plant is used in basket weaving. The root system is 6 feet deep and seems to spread from a bulb but snake out under the dirt and grow into new, independent plants. In addition to reminding me of Day of the Triffods, it reminds me of a locust infestation. When the murderer put her there, did he expect the branches to bend and the leaf cover to camouflage her until she was nothing but bones? How long does decomposition take in Tn at this time of year?

 

[otto]

I started a new thread:

Found Deceased TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[otto]

New Thread
​

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Men who pay income tax in Tennessee have to pay child support and there are ways of getting it out of them. That's determined on the State level, not the county level, as far as I know. (My husband has worked for State Social Services for 25 years). Of course some bonus or extra money her husband had might or might not be considered part of his income - it depends on whether his job took taxes out on him for it.

As long as he was paying taxes, once the judge issued a ruling he would have to pay. Although if he didn't setup with friend of court and take care of obligations on his end, she would have to spend her time and money to force him to pay. There is a state calculator for child support that judge's use but it is up to their discretion ultimately and support is also based upon the custody split. On paper it's a great system, but it's actually not as easy in reality which is probably what happened after the last divorce. If she was barely making it, the thought of fighting him for months and spending more money to receive what she was owed was probably very overwhelming. There is a free system to help but it's overburdened and slow acting. Which is why when a child turns 18 they can go after the support owed. There are ways to to make it so difficult that it ends up not being worth it. He who spends the most on a divorce usually wins, the system is setup so lawyers profit and slow the system. I used to live in TN and I have a lot of friends who just walked away from support. Why spend more money fighting for what they are owed?

 

[belimom]

New Thread​

Otto - I alerted the mods so that they'll lock this one. :seeya:

 

[ThoughtFox]

Throw in a full moon and the red lunar eclipse and it's a horror story.

Yes, I forgot the full moon and eclipse! If you wrote this in a novel the editor would say it was too much.