2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

[~n/t~]

I'm surprised the 911 operator didn't know Josh Powell considering this is a high profile case

 

[krkrjx]

The male 911 operator will lose his job. The 911 operator in my area who hung up on a young woman because she was in a situation where she could not speak without giving away her hiding place lost her job after the news of the young woman's murder came out. It was an exceptionally violent murder, the beginnings of which are clearly heard on the 911 tape. The murder remains unsolved. She was a 911 operator for 26 years and had an impeccable record but one mishandled call is one too many, and shortly after the incident she was given the option to voluntarily resign instead of being fired.

Hers was a situation where quick thinking and common sense might have saved a life or at least might have helped apprehend a killer. This situation is completely different; in this siutation nothing could have been done to save these boys once they were locked inside that house with Evil Incarnate. Still, the 911 system in that area will come under very tough scrutiny, and I do not see any what that they can justify keeping that male 911 operator in their employ.

 

[krkrjx]

"911, what is your emergency?"

It goes without saying that any call coming in to 911 is presumed to be an emergency. While it is true that some turn out not to be, it is imperative that all be treated as such initially.

 

[Nixie]

I don't think anyone could have saved the boys. IMO one of the reasons Josh put down the gasoline was just in case he was "interrupted" (hearing sirens or someone getting in) he could throw a match and end it all anyways. I think he had a plan and he was going to kill his boys no matter what.

 

[gitana1]

Guys, the supervised visitation facilitator was NOT a social worker, case worker or crisis worker. She was a person from a private facility contracted with CPS to provide monitored visits.

These people have scant training in my experience. Because they are not social workers, they do not receive the intensive training social workers do. They sometimes have a few college units of psychology but mostly, they have a few hours or a day or so of training at the facility. That training consists of basic safety protocols, how to supervise the visit (don't leave them alone), how to take notes, what to do if the parent appears intoxicated (stop visit), abuses the child (stop visit), or says inappropriate things to the child (redirect parent and if it continues, stop visit).

I complained about this before this happened. When I read that the coward had supervised visits but the kids were coming back sullen, from those visits, and with attitudes, I wrote on Susan's thread how they do not receive enough training to spot subtle manipulation. They often have vague info about the case. They do not receive a case file beyond basics. They have no declarations, no psych reports, no letters from people, nothing. Their case file contains names, ages length, of visits, type of restricted visitation and basic allegations (Domestic violence, e.g.).

Of course, even if this lady had had TONS more training and knew everything there was to know about a crisis, etc., she would not have been able to help here. Listening to the 911 tapes, she seemed sharp, spoke calmly even though you know she was terrified (as she could not initially find the address), etc. She tried her best to impress upon the 911 operator the seriousness of the situation. I would not have been as calm as she was. I felt she was as professional as possible.

I just wanted to clarify that this lady was NOT a trained CPS worker or anything close. I mention this in case there are people who think she should have known more or done more. I have friends who are or have been monitors and I deal with monitors all the time with my work. I know exactly what they need to supervise a case and it is almost nothing.

As for the first 911 operator, I'm sorry. He was cruel, bothered her with unnecessary nonsense, was NOT listening to her and then was sarcastic with her, almost mocking, when he tried to point out her "foolish" answers, which were not foolish at all, had he been listening to her calmly given info.

I know that it is unlikely that a faster response would have helped. The coward was determined and had planned this well. I also know that 911 operators have to deal with a ton of nonsense, excitable people misusing the system, excitable people who cannot help the 911 operator, etc., which can cause them to be frustrated at times. But this was NOT one of those situations and does not excuse this operator, IMO.

I think he enjoyed the power he had over the caller. His last sentence to her about sending cars quickly only to life threatening emergencies really showed that. The sneer in his voice as he said that was very obvious to me. He was belittling her and her situation and had he listened at all, he would have known this was serious. He was very unprofessional and should be fired, IMO. How that poor lady felt after that call, I can only imagine. She did everything she could and had to hang up with the feeling that she wasn't taken seriously, and with the knowledge that the two little lives she had been entrusted with were in a house that smelled like gas, with a murder suspect. She was more professional than I would have been. I would have screamed at that operator.

God bless that poor lady.

 

[DeeMarie]

(I am also a contractor. And because my contract is based on my performance, I work very hard. Sorry, I know this is OT, but her being a contractor has nothing to do with this situation. In her field, many contractors are used.)

Sorry, but my post was not referring to work performance.
My concern was that because she is a contractor will the state offer her help and support on what happened? Will they pay for counseling ? Will she be able to ever work again after going through this? If she will be dealing with PTSD for the rest of her life will she get financial help?

I am a contractor that works for the state there are no resources.

What is the states guidelines/process for when contractors are used as social workers and placed in high risk situations?

 

[~n/t~]

I don't think anyone is blaming her. :waitasec:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Was this house a front for Josh only for visitation? I read somewhere that it appeared to be 'staged', with Susan's photos on the walls and stuff. (Well, I think we all know how Josh felt about Susan.)

Also, the neighbors stating that they thought the house was vacant is indicative that he wasn't seen at the residence regularly.

I wish we knew more about this house. Like, did he have furniture set up in the boys' room, his BR, etc. Were dishes in the cabinets?

Moo

wm

 

[gitana1]

I really felt for everyone in those 911 calls. I can't remember which operator/call but you could tell the eye opening moment when they asked if she was saying it was intentional. It was like the light bulb came on.

I don't think anything would have changed the outcome.

I agree. And it was the lady who handled Alina Powell's call. Her heart must have been racing when she figured it out but she stayed professional. There must have been many tears in that office that day, later on.

OMG, she could hear one of the children screaming. All I can think of is that was when the hatchet went into play. OMG!

As far as any 911 operator wasting time, or any one else, I don't see it that way. Everyone was doing what they had to do. It would have made no difference if the police, firetruck, and ambulance were sitting right outside the door. JP was already in motion, no stopping him. That is why all the gasoline. Even if they tried to knock the door down, it was too late.

I hope the social worker can qualify for free therapy for the rest of her life, she's going to need it, and it may never help. I feel so sorry for her, just so awful.

I want to point out that the monitor said that she heard one of them crying, not screaming. That may make little difference but it may help those who want to imagine that they died quickly and without much terror.

Even if the police had arrived on scene immediately it would have not made any difference.

They would not storm the home knowing he held two hostages inside (his sons). They would have tried to set up communication with him urging him to come out.

No one is to blame for this diabolical plan except the murdering ba*tard who carried it out.

That's true. I never thought about that. They would not have stormed into the house, broken a window or bashed down a door. They would have been trying to establish contact and would have been standing there when the house went up in flames.

i had to call 911 once for a emergency and i couldnt remember my address for the life of me i started to cry. moo I was in shock. moo

I have my address on my phone for that reason, just in case, as well as my close family member's numbers, because I thought I could forget in an emergency.

My heart goes out to the social worker, and I'm actually thankful that he locked her out: she would be gone, too, IMO. And there's nothing she could have done to save those boys if she had been 'let in'.

One thing that crossed my mind: the supervised visit should have been on neutral turf. Not in his home where weapons, etc., could be hidden - and something like this could happen.

I hope this is something that courts will take into account in the future.

I'm still reeling from this one. :cry:

Yes, had she had a hold of their hands, she would likely be dead too.

I understand and completely agree that WS does not allow any bashing or second guessing of the social worker.....may I ask why it is ok to do the complete opposite to the 911 operator?? Has it occured to anyone that he also feels horrible about what happened? Josh Powell is the bad person, here. To me, all of his victims should be given the same respect.

I am not blaming anyone for this except the coward and the system that allowed him to have such unrestricted visits. I think NO ONE involved in that emergency could have prevented it. However, while the supervised monitor was calm, professional and trying hard to impress upon the operator, the urgency of the situation, he seemed cruel and sarcastic to me. These are the people we call when we need help desperately. That is an attitude that a 911 operator should never have. I felt so sorry for the lady and how she must have felt as she hung up.

 

[mamamia54]

After listening to all the nonsense from the operator, it just makes me angry, it was like he couldn't care less when the call first began and it didn't get any more urgent as the call progressed.

And I just feel terrible for that caseworker.

 

[Cortne]

This 911 operator guy...while I know that at times they have to keep a person on a call and keep them talking to calm them down, he's just a piece of work. When I had to call 911 for my husband's chest pains last May they were absolute angels and kept asking if I needed anything else, that they were sending the ambulance right away. I couldn't have asked for better service.

Any time children are involved it's life threatening. I sure hope this guy is severely admonished by his superiors.

Just jumpin off your post

Depending on his personnel file he should be placed on a probationary period and re trained. I personally do not wish him to be un employed, IF he has a good work record... Surely this isnt the first time he showed zero concern?? JP caused this all. That said, you can bet money the Chief is one un happy man. My heart goes out to ALL involved. All jmo and jme.

 

[SailorMoon]

I'll just chime in and say that I thought that all the 911 operators were kind of rude. Especially the guy. I know they are trained to get info, but they just all seemed snippy that day. Maybe they wanted to be elsewhere that day. ??

 

[rbrnmw2]

I can't listen but want to thank all who have and have posted about it. I haven't been able to get on much since FCA was acquitted I swore I would never get that emotionally invested again, but this is really breaking my heart because I thought the boys were safe with the Cox family I can't wrap my mind around this, How can anyone be that EVIL?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I'm sorry as I do not believe it was his intention that those boys be harmed, but I do get the sense the male 911 dispatcher was being deliberately vague with the CPS contractor. It honestly reminded me of that old SNL skit with David Spade-"..and you are?....and this is regarding?"

Again I don't for a minute think he ever imagined something that horrific going down, but when your job is 911, I sorta think every call needs to be treated as though it's a possibility.


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[~n/t~]

I'll just chime in and say that I thought that all the 911 operators were kind of rude. Especially the guy. I know they are trained to get info, but they just all seemed snippy that day. Maybe they wanted to be elsewhere that day. ??

Maybe they were upset because they had to work on Super Bowl Sunday. :innocent:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

To be completely frank and honest, there was nothing anyone could do from the moment JP decided he was going to do this, to the time he did this.

Everyone did their best, and while we can look back and see things we may have done differently, hindsight is always 20/20. Yes, we should look at, and examine, the series of events, but we should also always remember that we were NOT there, we did NOT have the pressure and the insanity in our faces, and we did NOT watch two children get brutally murdered by hatcheting and then explosions carried out by their father.

Josh Powell would have done this, period. It is luck, pure and simple, that we are not talking about a third murder (the S/W), or third and fourth murders (the Coxes).

I don't care how fast LE responded or didn't respond. They would never have been able to stop JP from igniting the blasts. Even if they were right outside, he would have done it.

If the 911 operator was a pure idiot, JP still would have done it.
If the 911 operator was able to send out squads right then, JP still would have done it.
If the kids had entered after the S/W, JP would have done it.
If visitation was not allowed, JP still would have done it, but at the Coxes' house.

It was gonna happen. From the moment when JP made up his mind this was how it was going to end, it was going to happen.

The responsibility of this lays only on JP. Not the social worker, and even if the 911 operator is a complete idiot, it's still not his fault. There were no actions anyone could take, even with dispatching immediately everything LE had including SWAT and HRT, that was going to stop JP.

JP was going to do what he did.

Best-
Herding Cats

:goodpost: Post of the Day !

:gthanks:

 

[Columbo]

Right. The kids being hacked to death with an axe and then blown up by their father will just have to wait while the policemen and firemen respond to important calls.

I swear the 911 operator didn't listen to a SINGLE WORD that the social worker said. He just kept making her repeat herself over and over, while two children were dying a horrible, brutal death just feet away from her. He acted like the call was just so silly, asking how she could supervise herself while she was the one visiting, as if he had just caught her in a ridiculous lie. She said Josh slammed the door in her face and wouldn't answer the door. She said she smelled gasoline. She said she was afraid for the children's lives. What else did she need to say to make him take her seriously?

I just don't even have enough tears for this.

Bolded by me.

Right--and how many times had she said the name "Josh Powell" and the 911 operator STILL asked her for his name? The social worker really was patient and totally professional,and kept her cool in this horrifying situation, trying to provide the information requested, while the 911 operator seemed like he was purposely trying to frustrate her.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Sheriff's office unhappy with 911 dispatcher in caseworker's call

The Pierce County Sheriff's department says a dispatcher's extensive questioning of a caseworker who tried to summon help to Josh Powell's home was inappropriate.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017455002_dispatcher09m.html

 

[sherbetjello]

CNN's Brooke Baldwin is covering this call right now. Even she was taken back by how call #7 transpired.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I would also like to add that I was actually pretty impressed with the CPS lady's composure while talking to the 911 dispatchers. You could hear the urgency and fear in her voice but she remained calm and spoke clearly and didn't become hysterical or unintelligible.

I don't think I could have managed those calls with letting a few (dozen) F bombs fly and shrieking.

Nobody aside from the courts could have prevented what happened, but since you don't know that at the time, you just have to pull it together and do your best. She did that, poor woman.


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