2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

Guys, the supervised visitation facilitator was NOT a social worker, case worker or crisis worker. She was a person from a private facility contracted with CPS to provide monitored visits.

These people have scant training in my experience. Because they are not social workers, they do not receive the intensive training social workers do. They sometimes have a few college units of psychology but mostly, they have a few hours or a day or so of training at the facility. That training consists of basic safety protocols, how to supervise the visit (don't leave them alone), how to take notes, what to do if the parent appears intoxicated (stop visit), abuses the child (stop visit), or says inappropriate things to the child (redirect parent and if it continues, stop visit).

I complained about this before this happened. When I read that the coward had supervised visits but the kids were coming back sullen, from those visits, and with attitudes, I wrote on Susan's thread how they do not receive enough training to spot subtle manipulation. They often have vague info about the case. They do not receive a case file beyond basics. They have no declarations, no psych reports, no letters from people, nothing. Their case file contains names, ages length, of visits, type of restricted visitation and basic allegations (Domestic violence, e.g.).

Of course, even if this lady had had TONS more training and knew everything there was to know about a crisis, etc., she would not have been able to help here. Listening to the 911 tapes, she seemed sharp, spoke calmly even though you know she was terrified (as she could not initially find the address), etc. She tried her best to impress upon the 911 operator the seriousness of the situation. I would not have been as calm as she was. I felt she was as professional as possible.

I just wanted to clarify that this lady was NOT a trained CPS worker or anything close. I mention this in case there are people who think she should have known more or done more. I have friends who are or have been monitors and I deal with monitors all the time with my work. I know exactly what they need to supervise a case and it is almost nothing.

As for the first 911 operator, I'm sorry. He was cruel, bothered her with unnecessary nonsense, was NOT listening to her and then was sarcastic with her, almost mocking, when he tried to point out her "foolish" answers, which were not foolish at all, had he been listening to her calmly given info.

I know that it is unlikely that a faster response would have helped. The coward was determined and had planned this well. I also know that 911 operators have to deal with a ton of nonsense, excitable people misusing the system, excitable people who cannot help the 911 operator, etc., which can cause them to be frustrated at times. But this was NOT one of those situations and does not excuse this operator, IMO.

I think he enjoyed the power he had over the caller. His last sentence to her about sending cars quickly only to life threatening emergencies really showed that. The sneer in his voice as he said that was very obvious to me. He was belittling her and her situation and had he listened at all, he would have known this was serious. He was very unprofessional and should be fired, IMO. How that poor lady felt after that call, I can only imagine. She did everything she could and had to hang up with the feeling that she wasn't taken seriously, and with the knowledge that the two little lives she had been entrusted with were in a house that smelled like gas, with a murder suspect. She was more professional than I would have been. I would have screamed at that operator.

God bless that poor lady.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017455002_dispatcher09m.html

The caseworker's call resulted in nearly seven minutes of questioning by the dispatcher before he said he would send a deputy. A short time later, the Graham house erupted in flames, killing everyone inside.

The Pierce County Sheriff's department says a dispatcher's extensive questioning of a caseworker who tried to summon help to Josh Powell's home was inappropriate.
 
I would also like to add that I was actually pretty impressed with the CPS lady's composure while talking to the 911 dispatchers. You could hear the urgency and fear in her voice but she remained calm and spoke clearly and didn't become hysterical or unintelligible.

I don't think I could have managed those calls with letting a few (dozen) F bombs fly and shrieking.

Nobody aside from the courts could have prevented what happened, but since you don't know that at the time, you just have to pull it together and do your best. She did that, poor woman.


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She knew he was acting strange too, he never said anything during that dead air while she was looking for the addy, and asked if he was still there. He should have been getting name and car type then.
 
The reason I quoted Git's reply above was I completely agree especially with the last 3 paragraphs and apparently so does the Sheriff's office! Gitana you've got him pegged.


7 minutes!!!!!
 
One thing I have learned from all this is that if you ever call 911 in a true emergency situation you need to be very bold and assertive with stating "I need (fire, police, ambulance) NOW!" If you don't get assurance that help is on the way immediately ask to speak to their supervisor. Of course trying to remember this will be the hard part when the a situation arises.
 
"We're not happy with the way that dispatcher is bantering [with the caseworker]," sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Ed Troyer said Wednesday morning. "We understand that could have been handled better."

But the male dispatcher responded with nearly seven minutes of nonstop questions about Powell and the children, details about her job and information about the car she was driving.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...atcher09m.html
 
She was not a social worker! She was a person "supervising visits" most likely due to the fact a family member did not want to! Josh probably was paying per hour for her to do the job. She was an ordinary human doing her job..

She stated she worked for the DFS or something similar (a state office). Josh may have had to pay for the supervision, but he did not hire her. The supervision of visits is court appointed, the parent being supervised does not have a choice as to who supervises.
 
I've put myself in so many people's shoes within this story and after listening to the call I thought "what could I have done?"... And I can't see myself doing any more than the social worker did. I thought, drive the car through the house... But where we're the boys, and then the threat of smelling the gas. Can't do that. Or, break out a window... But what's behind that wall? I've gone over so many theories and there isn't one that could of been done. However, those 3 wasted minutes. Had someone of been there to break down that door, just maybe.

Just maybe

I don't think I'll ever make sense of this one. This sucks, it really does.

If I were the one who made the 911 call, I would have used some words that are not meant for anyone to hear and when released, 90% of the call would be bleeped!
 
Is there a time line detailing the time of the first 911 call and time LE/Fire dept arrived on the scene? I would really like to have this information.
 
Bolded by me.

Right--and how many times had she said the name "Josh Powell" and the 911 operator STILL asked her for his name? The social worker really was patient and totally professional,and kept her cool in this horrifying situation, trying to provide the information requested, while the 911 operator seemed like he was purposely trying to frustrate her.

I was fuming as I heard the 911 operator ask the visit sup about her job, who are you, who do you supervise, how can you supervise yourself, etc, etc. What an *advertiser censored*! I'd like 10 minutes alone in a room with him.

How long did it take from the first 911 call until help arrived? Do we have that or will that be covered up too?
 
The reason I quoted Git's reply above was I completely agree especially with the last 3 paragraphs and apparently so does the Sheriff's office! Gitana you've got him pegged.


7 minutes!!!!!

Interesting, it takes 6 minutes for the brain to die from lack of oxygen!
 
"We're not happy with the way that dispatcher is bantering [with the caseworker]," sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Ed Troyer said Wednesday morning. "We understand that could have been handled better."

But the male dispatcher responded with nearly seven minutes of nonstop questions about Powell and the children, details about her job and information about the car she was driving.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...atcher09m.html

That word "bantering" bothers me. That implies that she was yukking it up right back at him. That was not the case at all. He was being deliberately obtuse with regard to her role at the scene. She wasn't playing along with him. She was trying to get help.

Yes, dispatchers have bad days just like the rest of us. Yes, they are human. Yes, he may well have been disgruntled because he drew the short straw and had to work during the Super Bowl. But this isn't someone taking orders at McD's. This is a person who should be well aware that any and every call deserves undivided attention and professionalism.
 
Sheriff's office unhappy with 911 dispatcher in caseworker's call

The Pierce County Sheriff's department says a dispatcher's extensive questioning of a caseworker who tried to summon help to Josh Powell's home was inappropriate.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017455002_dispatcher09m.html

I'll say. It's like he was sitting there playing angry birds or something and was distracted. She did say JP's name several times and he asked for it. Geeze.
 
When I listened to call #7, my heart was racing and I was almost yelling at my screen. I could not believe the questions of the 911 operator. I really don't know how the case worker was able to hold it together. I do hope and pray that this gentleman is reprimanded and retrained. I would hate to see another one like this.

As every day passes and more and more comes out...the angrier and more saddened I become. I just have ZERO words right now over so many aspects of this, I am shellshocked by this case.

Lord, please give us all the patience to hang on and see this through. As horrifying as all of this is, Susan needs to be brought home and put to rest with her boys. ANYONE involved or has knowledge regarding her disappearance needs to be put away and justice served.
 
I don't think anyone could have saved the boys. IMO one of the reasons Josh put down the gasoline was just in case he was "interrupted" (hearing sirens or someone getting in) he could throw a match and end it all anyways. I think he had a plan and he was going to kill his boys no matter what.

Exactly. And he probably covered all possibilities, including if the case worker would have walked in ahead of the kids. She is one extremely lucky lady that she did not get hurt/killed too.
 
That word "bantering" bothers me. That implies that she was yukking it up right back at him. That was not the case at all. He was being deliberately obtuse with regard to her role at the scene. She wasn't playing along with him. She was trying to get help.

Yes, dispatchers have bad days just like the rest of us. Yes, they are human. Yes, he may well have been disgruntled because he drew the short straw and had to work during the Super Bowl. But this isn't someone taking orders at McD's. This is a person who should be well aware that any and every call deserves undivided attention and professionalism.


I wonder if he meant badgering?
 
To be completely frank and honest, there was nothing anyone could do from the moment JP decided he was going to do this, to the time he did this.

Everyone did their best, and while we can look back and see things we may have done differently, hindsight is always 20/20. Yes, we should look at, and examine, the series of events, but we should also always remember that we were NOT there, we did NOT have the pressure and the insanity in our faces, and we did NOT watch two children get brutally murdered by hatcheting and then explosions carried out by their father.

Josh Powell would have done this, period. It is luck, pure and simple, that we are not talking about a third murder (the S/W), or third and fourth murders (the Coxes).

I don't care how fast LE responded or didn't respond. They would never have been able to stop JP from igniting the blasts. Even if they were right outside, he would have done it.

If the 911 operator was a pure idiot, JP still would have done it.
If the 911 operator was able to send out squads right then, JP still would have done it.
If the kids had entered after the S/W, JP would have done it.
If visitation was not allowed, JP still would have done it, but at the Coxes' house.

It was gonna happen. From the moment when JP made up his mind this was how it was going to end, it was going to happen.

The responsibility of this lays only on JP. Not the social worker, and even if the 911 operator is a complete idiot, it's still not his fault. There were no actions anyone could take, even with dispatching immediately everything LE had including SWAT and HRT, that was going to stop JP.

JP was going to do what he did.

Best-
Herding Cats

I agree with much of what you say.

However, I do think the system needs specific reforms. I've worked in family law and have seen similar potential problems in my state. It's true Josh was/is the only one legally and morally culpable (IMO) for these horrific acts. Nevertheless, we should use this as an eye opening experience to change the system for the better.

Off the top of my head:

1. Once the judge determined last Wednesday that the Cox's would retain primary physical custody of the boys, Josh should have been denied any visitation, supervised or not, until he underwent and passed the psycho-sexual and polygraph exams.

2. His status as a person of interest in his wife's disappearance, along with his tenuous alibi, while having no impact criminally, should have been considered in determining custody.

3. Additionally, there should have been more than one case worker assigned, and any visitation that had existed in the past should have occurred at a neutral location over which Josh had no authority.

Would Josh still have gone postal somewhere else? Perhaps. But the system made it far easier for him by entrusting him control over length of time, place and manner in which to plan, prepare and engage in cold-blooded murder.

To brush this under the rug as an unpreventable atrocity by an evil being risks the occurrence of a similar tragedy in the future. We can do better.
 
I agree with much of what you say.

However, I do think the system needs specific reforms. I've worked in family law and have seen similar potential problems in my state. It's true Josh was/is the only one legally and morally culpable (IMO) for these horrific acts. Nevertheless, we should use this as an eye opening experience to change the system for the better.

Off the top of my head:

1. Once the judge determined last Wednesday that the Cox's would retain primary physical custody of the boys, Josh should have been denied any visitation, supervised or not, until he underwent and passed the psycho-sexual and polygraph exams.

2. His status as a person of interest in his wife's disappearance, along with his tenuous alibi, while having no impact criminally, should have been considered in determining custody.

3. Additionally, there should have been more than one case worker assigned, and any visitation that had existed in the past should have occurred at a neutral location over which Josh had no authority.

Would Josh still have gone postal somewhere else? Perhaps. But the system made it far easier for him by entrusting him control over length of time, place and manner in which to plan, prepare and engage in cold-blooded murder.

To brush this under the rug as an unpreventable atrocity by an evil being risks the occurrence of a similar tragedy in the future. We can do better.

This post encompasses my personal opinion as well. Thank you for saying how I feel much better than I could have done! :seeya:
 
I was fuming as I heard the 911 operator ask the visit sup about her job, who are you, who do you supervise, how can you supervise yourself, etc, etc. What an *advertiser censored*! I'd like 10 minutes alone in a room with him.

How long did it take from the first 911 call until help arrived? Do we have that or will that be covered up too?

I agree. I got so irritated listening to this.... My hat off to the social worker for keeping her cool. I would have used another tone, temper and language if I was in the situation.

She did amazing.
 
Well, even 911 operators have a bad day. Maybe he had a migraine, or just feeling lousy and it just so happened to be the day Josh Powell murdered his children that the 911 operator wasn't totally with it.

I don't really want to judge him too harshly because the poor guy has to wake up every single day for the rest of his life with this hanging over him. But for the grace of God...

IMO
If he was having a "bad day" he had no business being at work. I sure wouldn't want for instance, my surgeon to be operating on me if he was having a bad day. When you take a position to work in a profession that deals with life and death, emergency situations, you have to separate work from personal, period.
 
OMG, after listening to this I am sick. What business is it of the 911 operator who supervises who, what, where or when?

This 911 op would be safe in hiding if I were the grandparent of the children, cause I would be in a rage and on the warpath - what else would there be to live for?

I would respectfully suggest, while not excusing the seeming non-challant and apparentl lack of care in the voice of the male 911 operator in Call #7, that though alot of us find his questions inappropriate - I have been in the legal profession for 32 years, and his line of questioning is not out of line in accord with the probable hundreds of domestic situation/visitation issue calls 911 gets. Not excusing his response - or lack thereof - simply trying to spin it from a different angle.

As many have said. Even if he had immediately dispatched someone to the scene - those boys were already gone. Heartbreaking.
 

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