**Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

[Tipstaff]

You mean like the size 10 shoes? You know NOT proving JY wore the size 10 shoe...

Not addressing this but thank you.

 

[gracielee]

Not sure where it happened... But here in Columbus we have 23 hospitals.... If in an accident normally you are taken to the nearest hospital.. If they are busy they will transport you to the next nearest one...

They will also ask which one you prefer to go too... So the person could have went to any hospital...

Here in Raleigh we have two hospitals with ER's. Either Rex hospital or Wake Med. Depending upon the location of the accident, as they are located on opposite sides of town.

 

[cody100]

I missed the later part of the prosecution's closing. I thought they did an excellent job of presenting the evidence in a linear, storytelling manner that demonstrated that each piece of evidence faciliated Jason committing the murder. I assumed that they also carefully addressed the gas issue that was unresolved at the end of the first trial, and didn't learn until later that evening that the prosecution simply said they didn't want to discuss the gas issues. That's a weakness in their case. They should have presented evidence that Jason committed the murder with, or without, the gas attendant testimony especially since her testimony was weak and contradicted her earlier testimony.

Those two points are my major issues with the PT case. To simply ignore the gas mileage issue is a gross admission that the State can not refute it. BTW, the gas mileage used for a 2004 Explorer is correct for highway mileage-------roughly 20mpg. And the gas station attendant's testimony needed follow up confirmation. I also have problems with unidentified hairs and prints at the scene.

 

[SteelerGirl43]

Not addressing this but thank you.

You're welcome

 

[fifteen89]

We don't even know where the accident occurred.

Or IF the accident occurred. What testimony proved there even was an accident? Emails referring to something the Defendant said happened?

 

[otto]

Could you cite that evidence please? That the first assault on Michelle was an attempted strangulation and not a 'knock out blow to the head'? I don't recall the testimony to which you are referring?

Cite the autopsy report where it says that there was an attempted strangulation, injuries by hand (ME testimony), and then blunt force trauma that resulted in death? If the blunt force trauma was done first, Michelle could not have scratched her own neck while fighting the strangulation ... the blunt force trauma was too violent for her to have been conscious during an attempted strangulation.

 

[Just the Fax]

I am perfectly willing to dismiss the internet searches since there is no proof either way as to context. I have never considered that piece of evidence very strongly, pointing to guilt.

 

[cody100]

Most trauma goes to Wake Med so I am not sure where SS said she worked. We have several satellites of Wake Med that take Emergencies. There is also Duke Raleigh which is more centrally located.

 

[gracielee]

We knew that Jason search "head trauma" on the computer. That information was released well before either trial. That information made Jason look guilty. During trial, we heard testimony about that search with the implication that he may have done this while planning the murder.

Defense witness testmony proved, using information that the prosecution knew all along, that the prosecution was well aware of the fact that even Michelle knew about the accident that Jason witnessed. Jason explained that after the accident he was traumatized and searched the injuries suffered by the accident victim.

Are we to believe that Jason, the notoriously disorganized guy, search "head trauma" as part of his murderous plan, anticipated that the searches might be found, created an alibi by mentioning a fake accident to his wife and his wife then told others about this fake accident ... all to cover up the fact that Jason used his own computer to search head trauma? Why didn't he just go to the library to make the searches if he thought they might come back to him when he did the search?

I don't understand how this answers my original question as to why the defense did not enter any evidence to rebut Shelly Schaads testimony that the only accident she could find that day requiring further medical care was the black man with the leg injury? My question was 'how did this supposed accident jason was traumatized by' get into the 'known evidence column' as a reason for the various computer searches?

 

[fifteen89]

Hospital intake should have testified regarding the type of patients admitted to hospital that day, not a friend of the witness's wife that works at a hospital.

What DT witness testified about the accident?

 

[otto]

Or IF the accident occurred. What testimony proved there even was an accident? Emails referring to something the Defendant said happened?

It's far too convoluted to suggest that Jason searched "head trauma" and then concocted all sorts of lies to make it seem like there was an accident that he witnessed to explain the searches. If he was concerned that the searches would be discovered at the time that he made the searches, he would have used a public computer at the library.

It's a bit like the trickling hose in the back yard. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with anything ... except it tells us that someone forgot to turn off the hose at the point where it attaches to the house ...perhaps after washing up from cutting the grass. That trickling hose has morphed into a story where Jason took his two year old child outside in the middle of the night to wash her feet in cold water. Why? To explain the trickling hose, not because there is evidence of murder on the hose.

 

[fifteen89]

I missed the later part of the prosecution's closing. I thought they did an excellent job of presenting the evidence in a linear, storytelling manner that demonstrated that each piece of evidence faciliated Jason committing the murder. I assumed that they also carefully addressed the gas issue that was unresolved at the end of the first trial, and didn't learn until later that evening that the prosecution simply said they didn't want to discuss the gas issues. That's a weakness in their case. They should have presented evidence that Jason committed the murder with, or without, the gas attendant testimony especially since her testimony was weak and contradicted her earlier testimony.

The PT did address the gas in their closing more than to say he didn't want to address it.

 

[SteelerGirl43]

There is evidence of attempted strangulation and evidence that after that failed, blunt force with a weapon occurred.



Could you cite that evidence please? That the first assault on Michelle was an attempted strangulation and not a 'knock out blow to the head'? I don't recall the testimony to which you are referring?

The autopsy report shows she died from blunt force trauma to the head after being hit at least 10 times, but it also suggests her killer tried to strangle her before beating her to death. She had injuries to her neck consistent with manual strangulation, the report said.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1175401/

 

[gracielee]

Cite the autopsy report where it says that there was an attempted strangulation, injuries by hand (ME testimony), and then blunt force trauma that resulted in death? If the blunt force trauma was done first, Michelle could not have scratched her own neck while fighting the strangulation ... the blunt force trauma was too violent for her to have been conscious during an attempted strangulation.

I did not read that *all* the blunt force trauma was administered at the same time. My interpretation was Michelle received a blow to her head while in bed, then strangulation, and then a violent over-kill of head and face blows while on the floor.

 

[CBTampa]

I am perfectly willing to dismiss the internet searches since there is no proof either way as to context. I have never considered that piece of evidence very strongly, pointing to guilt.

Then it makes you wonder why they were erased.

 

[otto]

I don't understand how this answers my original question as to why the defense did not enter any evidence to rebut Shelly Schaads testimony that the only accident she could find that day requiring further medical care was the black man with the leg injury? My question was 'how did this supposed accident jason was traumatized by' get into the 'known evidence column' as a reason for the various computer searches?

If a friend of Michelle claimed that no one was admitted to the hospital where she worked at the time that Jason witnessed the accident, that's all very well, but it does not mean that the accident did not happen. If the prosecution wants to prove that it did not happen, they needed intake witnesses from all hospitals testifying that no one was admitted with head trauma.

 

[fifteen89]

It's far too convoluted to suggest that Jason searched "head trauma" and then concocted all sorts of lies to make it seem like there was an accident that he witnessed to explain the searches. If he was concerned that the searches would be discovered at the time that he made the searches, he would have used a public computer at the library.

It's a bit like the trickling hose in the back yard. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with anything ... except it tells us that someone forgot to turn off the hose at the point where it attaches to the house ...perhaps after washing up from cutting the grass. That trickling hose has morphed into a story where Jason took his two year old child outside in the middle of the night to wash her feet in cold water. Why? To explain the trickling hose, not because there is evidence of murder on the hose.

I'm not providing a convoluted explanation.....I simply asked "What testimony proved there even was an accident?"

 

[Just the Fax]

Cite the autopsy report where it says that there was an attempted strangulation, injuries by hand (ME testimony), and then blunt force trauma that resulted in death? If the blunt force trauma was done first, Michelle could not have scratched her own neck while fighting the strangulation ... the blunt force trauma was too violent for her to have been conscious during an attempted strangulation.

Nobody knows if she was first hit on the head with the weapon while in bed, or if he went straight for her throat and then punched her in the mouth with his gloved fist - as the PT speculated.

 

[gracielee]

Most trauma goes to Wake Med so I am not sure where SS said she worked. We have several satellites of Wake Med that take Emergencies. There is also Duke Raleigh which is more centrally located.

Does Duke Raleigh now have an ER where accident trauma patients are taken? The only thing I've ever been there for is scheduled surgical procedures.

 

[SteelerGirl43]

It's far too convoluted to suggest that Jason searched "head trauma" and then concocted all sorts of lies to make it seem like there was an accident that he witnessed to explain the searches. If he was concerned that the searches would be discovered at the time that he made the searches, he would have used a public computer at the library.

It's a bit like the trickling hose in the back yard. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with anything ... except it tells us that someone forgot to turn off the hose at the point where it attaches to the house ...perhaps after washing up from cutting the grass. That trickling hose has morphed into a story where Jason took his two year old child outside in the middle of the night to wash her feet in cold water. Why? To explain the trickling hose, not because there is evidence of murder on the hose.

Sure didnt look like he "used" much water to clean her off.... If he cleaned her off outside... Which I'm not buying.. Either he cleaned her off with baby wipes or the hose.. Which is it???
Did they check the ground for blood?