trial thread: 3/7/2012

[ChaChaCha]

NT, I don't think you understand what is going on in this trial - just the trial. Nobody is pointing fingers at anyone, and of course TM didn't deserve to have this happen to her only daughter. The point was made because (and I didn't want to have to say it) in my opinion TM lied on the stand today. If we who have followed the case meticulously know that the testimony differs from what she previously publicly stated, then so does the defence team. They are going to zero in on that, and use her admission today about the drug debt to connect she and Goris to TLM. That is the basis of their defence - that TLM had a connection to the family - not Rafferty, and that TS was targeted.

No one here wants to inflict any more pain on TM .. we are discussing the CASE and not hurling blame at the victim's mother.

Hope this helps ... don't want you stressing out at comparisons made between previous public statements and sworn testimony.

 

[ChaChaCha]

BBM...TLM entered the school grounds??? I was under the impression that she met her on the street.

Yikes ... off the top of my head, my impression was that they passed the woman waiting for her sons at the top of the hill ... meaning that TLM had entered further onto the school property (even if it was at the far end of the playground) than the woman, and was returning with Tori.

Am I way off here?:waitasec:

 

[Sparklin]

The kidnapping of Tori took place after the afternoon dismissal from her school, on the first day she was to walk home alone to her mother’s house. Ms. McClintic introduced herself to Tori as “T” and after their chat about dogs they walked off together.

bbm - INTRODUCED...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ri-stafford-murder-case/article1831151/page2/

 

[flipflop]

Yikes ... off the top of my head, my impression was that they passed the woman waiting for her sons at the top of the hill ... meaning that TLM had entered further onto the school property (even if it was at the far end of the playground) than the woman, and was returning with Tori.

Am I way off here?:waitasec:

I don't think we have ever been told WHERE exactly TLM met up with VS after school. I have always assumed it was on the street. The woman waiting for her sons was caught on the high school video...which up the road from VS's school. So I guess TLM could have met her anywhere on that road from the hill to the school yard.

 

[Sparklin]

Yet McClintic told court she hadn’t specifically targeted the Grade 3 student that afternoon. The pretty little blonde girl was simply the first child McClintic came across.

Why would she bother lying at this point??

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/904151--the-day-tori-stafford-was-murdered

 

[Salem]

Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

Thank you,

Salem

 

[Hello_Kitty]

TLM called JG a couple times because she was upset that Tara didn't want to breed her dog with theirs.

Tara mentions in a pressor (when questioned who she thinks would take Tori and why) that she thinks maybe the person who took Tori was being "mildly vindictive" and maybe "things got out of control".

Geeze, do ya think TLM took Tori because she was mad about getting "dissed" over the dog breeding? Did TLM take her rage out for Tara, on Tori?

I'm not sure which is worse, murdering a child over a $400 drug debt, or over a dog breeding scheme.

Perhaps it was a combination of both.

Perhaps they had an understanding that the dogs would be bred in lieu of the drug debt. (Just want to clarify that I am not saying that the 400$ drug debt was necessarily owed to TLM, we don't know yet who JG owed that debt to.

 

[Kamille]

NT, I don't think you understand what is going on in this trial - just the trial. Nobody is pointing fingers at anyone, and of course TM didn't deserve to have this happen to her only daughter. The point was made because (and I didn't want to have to say it) in my opinion TM lied on the stand today. If we who have followed the case meticulously know that the testimony differs from what she previously publicly stated, then so does the defence team. They are going to zero in on that, and use her admission today about the drug debt to connect she and Goris to TLM. That is the basis of their defence - that TLM had a connection to the family - not Rafferty, and that TS was targeted.

No one here wants to inflict any more pain on TM .. we are discussing the CASE and not hurling blame at the victim's mother.

Hope this helps ... don't want you stressing out at comparisons made between previous public statements and sworn testimony.

So what you're saying is that MR is wasting the taxpayers money and taking up valuable court time by pleading not guilty and taking this to trial to get his version of the story out there to try to lessen his own culpablility and try to paint himself in a better light, even though he did actually participate in this crime?

Maybe he should have confessed and saved a lot of time, money LE effort and heartbreak right after it happened if he wanted to get his story out for public consumption first? :waitasec:

He could still have pled guilty with his own statement of facts and let the public compare both his statement and TLM's statement to decide who was the most evil.

I guess he's trying to prevent that dangerous offender designation? Does anyone know if that is even up for consideration?

MOO

 

[Sparklin]

Two reasons;

1. Easier time in prison when you admit to kidnapping only and not actually beating an 8yr old to death with a hammer. (assuming she's putting the physical murder part on MR)
2. Faint Hope Clause

She didn't seem to care at the time how long she would be in jail ~ but I was actually talking about not knowing Tori and that she was picked at random and not targeted as a 'payback'.

 

[justbetweenus]

Wasn't it reported after TLM was arrested she told police she knew Tara but did not know Tori was her child? I use to post here in the beginning. One of the few that never believed Tara was involved. Justice will soon be served.

 

[Kamille]

Two reasons;

1. Easier time in prison when you admit to kidnapping only and not actually beating an 8yr old to death with a hammer. (assuming she's putting the physical murder part on MR)
2. Faint Hope Clause

The exact same thing could be said for MR. I would imagine he would have a pretty tough time in prison as the instigator and actual person who committed the rape and murder of this beautiful child.

So I guess Rodney was right. We will likely never know the truth.

MOO

 

[Wondergirl]

If she admitted to it being targeted, then it would go to show that SHE (TLM) was the instigator and probable killer since SHE (TLM) was the one that knew Tara and James (and got burned by them). A lot harder to pin it on the "boyfriend" that way.

MOO

BBM: Do you think MTR was TLM's boyfriend?

 

[Sparklin]

Wasn't it reported after TLM was arrested she told police she knew Tara but did not know Tori was her child? I use to post here in the beginning. One of the few that never believed Tara was involved. Justice will soon be served.

I use to have all that info ~ possibly on one of my old computers, but I seem to remember that she admitted to meeting Tara in passing, just as Tara has explained it....through her mother.

 

[Kamille]

If she admitted to it being targeted, then it would go to show that SHE (TLM) was the instigator and probable killer since SHE (TLM) was the one that knew Tara and James (and got burned by them). A lot harder to pin it on the "boyfriend" that way.

MOO

If TLM was such a gang banger and wanted "revenge" on Tara and James then she would have taken it out on them IMO. A home invasion gone bad kind of scenario. Even bikers don't target people's kids in a revenge situation.

MOO

 

[ChaChaCha]

Why would she bother lying at this point??

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/904151--the-day-tori-stafford-was-murdered

Why would she bother lying at this point??

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/904151--the-day-tori-stafford-was-murdered

Thank you Sparklin for this link. It has been a while since the article was published along with the Agreed Statement of Fact - which was HEAVILY edited. I am seeing that at her trial TLM denied that she specifically targeted TS, that it was not premeditated, and that events in her past contributed to her actions that day. The Statement of Facts was edited in accordance with the publication ban for MRs trial ... still it is interesting whether she will retain any credibility when she testifies at MRs trial. Will her testimony change? Will different information be forthcoming? Her comments at sentencing were described as rambling, and reading some of the quotes, I think she was delusional that day. Definitely some sort of denial going on there.

Remember too that witnesses are subject to recall for further and more detailed cross examination ... so that they may be called to refute the testimony of another witness ... just sayin.

 

[Sparklin]

If she admitted to it being targeted, then it would go to show that SHE (TLM) was the instigator and probable killer since SHE (TLM) was the one that knew Tara and James (and got burned by them). A lot harder to pin it on the "boyfriend" that way.

MOO

I don't get that ~ she plead guilty to murder...she got life in prison...she didn't cut any deals...how much worse could it get??

 

[Sparklin]

I don't believe MR had a reason to be "mildly vindictive", no relationship has been established between MR and Tara or James, so far. The sexual assault hasn't been proven so far either. So, at this point, I'm still leaning towards TLM being the instigator and perpetrator of this crime.

Not saying MR was not involved, never have said that, just not seeing him as the more evil of the two.



Don't know.

Just the fact that he didn't plead guilty as she did and save the family any more grief makes him more evil in my eyes!

 

[nettie_82]

Carol said Terri-Lynne and Tori had met thanks to dogs – Carol owns two small dogs.

"The only thing I knew about Terri-Lynne was that she walked the dogs and Tori had talked to her about Precious (one of the dogs) as she is the same as their dog," said Carol.

She met Tara McDonald, Tori's mother, and James Goris, her boyfriend, who she said wanted to breed their dog, Cosmo, with her dogs.

http://www.thestar.com/article/638603

 

[Kamille]

I don't believe MR had a reason to be "mildly vindictive", no relationship has been established between MR and Tara or James, so far. The sexual assault hasn't been proven so far either. So, at this point, I'm still leaning towards TLM being the instigator and perpetrator of this crime.

Not saying MR was not involved, never have said that, just not seeing him as the more evil of the two.



Don't know.

No he didn't have a "mildly vindictive" motive but he could have had a sexually perverse one.

MOO

 

[nettie_82]

Although the suspects know Victoria's parents, police don't believe they knew who their daughter was at the time she was kidnapped, sources say.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090520/stafford_arrest_090520/20090520?hub=Toronto