FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[jjenny]

The part that has me most upset is that Sanford PD actually thought they would get away with this. Under some circumstances they probably have or would.

To think that a 17 year old boy's parents would accept the BS story given to them by SPD...is just...inconceivable.

The grand jury will convene on 4/10. Does the state attorney not realize that's an eternity when you have tensions and pressure mounting like this?

I am not understanding this discussion anymore. What did they think they would get away with? FL passed "stand your ground" law and under this law this is hardly the first case of such a thing happening. People claim self-defense and under the law they are free and clear.

 

[What'sThatClue]

News13 reporter stated that Sanford City Hall Commission Chambers holds about 350 people. Crump stated he expects 'a couple thousand.' But no one knows, really. Still, the commission can most likely expect a large crowd and there may be "standing room only" according to the reporter.

Interesting that FL Statutes does address public meetings where a huge turnout is expected. I'm familiar with this because it's happened in my own city when a huge crowd showed up regarding a controversial issue. So, who knows where the meeting may end up being held or what the City of Sanford will do to provide access to a huge crowd. We'll find out on the 26th, I suppose...although perhaps an arrest will be made prior to the meeting. Even so, I bet a huge crowd shows up. JMO

http://www.myfloridalegal.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/A47B8F3E8F3CCCDF852566F300582C91

4. Can restrictions be placed on the public's attendance at, or participation in, a public meeting?

a. Public's right to attend or record meeting

(1) Size of meeting facilities

The Sunshine Law requires that meetings of a public board or commission be "open to the public." For meetings where a large turnout of the public is expected, public boards and commissions should take reasonable steps to ensure that the facilities where the meeting will be held will accommodate the anticipated turnout. Inf. Op. to Galloway, August 21, 2008. Meetings held at a facility which can accommodate only a small number of the public attending, when a large public turnout can reasonably be expected, may violate the public access requirement of s. 286.011, F.S., by unreasonably restricting access to the meeting. If a huge public turnout is anticipated for a particular issue and the largest available public meeting room cannot accommodate all of those who are expected to attend, the use of video technology (e.g., a television screen outside the meeting room) may be appropriate. In such cases, as with other open meetings, reasonable steps to provide an opportunity for public participation in the proceedings should also be considered. Id.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I feel so badly for Trayvon's girlfriend. I've witnessed my children grieve the loss of friends when they were teens and they would fall apart! I'm keeping her in my prayers. I'm sure she is haunted by this tragedy, JMO. I can't even imagine what she is going thru. MOO

wm

 

[HiHater]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/sfl-trayvon-martin-family-20120315,0,3161920.story

According to Bill Lee:

“Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story,” Lee said.

Zimmerman had a damp shirt, grass stains, a bloody nose and was bleeding from a wound in back of his head, according to police reports.

“If someone asks you, ‘Hey do you live here?’ Is it OK for you to jump on them and beat the crap out of somebody?” Lee said. “It’s not.”

If Tray beat the crap out of Zimmerman, as Lee states, where are the pictures of this evidence that are consistent with "his story" of self defense? Please do not tell me that they wouldn't have taken pictures of Zimmerman's injuries?!?! They claim they were "investigating?" In order to do a proper "investigation", it would be important to document and photograph all evidence?

Why was his shirt not taken into evidence? Where is that shirt now? In the garbage?

This police chief is going to have no choice but to resign. He should have stuck to the old "we cannot comment on an ongoing investigation" line, because as of right now, it looks as though he has been lying A LOT.

 

[CSDonna]

I hope they lock Z's butt up, throw him into the general population at the prison, and throw away the key! That poor child was racially profiled and murdered.

 

[jjenny]

GZ seems to be very well protected by "stand your ground" law.

"In Florida, the shooter usually only has to say these magic words to get a Get Out of Jail Free card: "I felt I was in imminent danger, so I shot in self-defense.""

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/co...ath-mayocol-b032012-20120319,0,5397867.column

 

[What'sThatClue]

The feds will grab every recording of a 911 call this guy ever made and I bet they find in one of them over the years where he mentions he is armed.

This PD department knew they had an armed vigilante doing their work for them.

The problem is that the actual recordings are kept for only 6 months, although records of the calls are kept forever. So the feds may be limited to just seeing the records and not the recordings themselves prior to the 6 month cutoff.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_neighborhood-county-sheriff-s-office-report

The Sheriff's Office received more calls, but the audio information is retained for six-months before it is destroyed due to space issues, said spokeswoman Heather Smith. The record and the call log are not destroyed.

 

[HiHater]

I am not understanding this discussion anymore. What did they think they would get away with? FL passed "stand your ground" law and under this law this is hardly the first case of such a thing happening. People claim self-defense and under the law they are free and clear.

Are we not following the same case?

They told the parents of a 17 year old boy that their son was killed in self-defense. That there was no evidence to contradict that it was in fact, self-defense.

Now, almost a month later, and there is virtually NOTHING that would lead a REASONABLE person to believe that this could have ever been self-defense.

SPD probably never imagined the case getting this much attention. This has nothing to do with the stand your ground law. You can keep bringing that up, but as of right now, it's not looking like GZ was standing his ground. By definition, standing your ground means to stand up for yourself; to resist an attack.

 

[annalia]

I am not understanding this discussion anymore. What did they think they would get away with? FL passed "stand your ground" law and under this law this is hardly the first case of such a thing happening. People claim self-defense and under the law they are free and clear.

People still can't just say self defense and that be the end of it. Facts still matter, no matter what was passed about "standing your ground". And those facts are showing more and more that this was NOT a case of self defense.

It was a public sidewalk, just because Tray is now dead doesn't make his rights disappear.

JMHO

 

[corq]

Miami Herald's commentary had some interesting angles on the law, and I hope will shore up:


"Stand Your Ground fathers: Trayvon Martin's killer should likely be arrested, doesn't deserve immunity"

LINK: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2012/03/stand-your-ground-fathers-trayvon-martins-shooter-should-likely-be-arrested-doesnt-deserve-immunity.html

 

[LolaMoon08]

Regarding any pictures taken of Zimmerman's injuries:

Do you think if they had pictures of Zimmerman's injuries that night they would have been released already? Or do you think they are keeping them and not releasing them? Do you think pictures even exist?

I would think that if they had photographed Zimmerman's injuries, the pictures would have been released immediately with the 911 calls?

I just want to know if someone believes the pictures exist and they are just holding them ack

 

[CSDonna]

Perhaps he wouldn't have felt "in imminent danger" if he hadn't pursued the child. (not that I'm buying his "danger" story one bit!)

 

[jjenny]

People still can't just say self defense and that be the end of it. Facts still matter, no matter what was passed about "standing your ground". And those facts are showing more and more that this was NOT a case of self defense.

It was a public sidewalk, just because Tray is now dead doesn't make his rights disappear.

JMHO

Maybe you should read about some other cases that were called "self-defense" under this law.

 

[HiHater]

The link was already posted, but I think these words, from the sponsors of the "Stand Your Ground" law, should be posted clearly on this board:

Peaden and Baxley say their law, at its heart, is a self-defense law. It says law-abiding people have no duty to retreat. Nowhere does it say that a person has a right to confront another. The law does say a law-abiding citizen can use deadly force if "if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

The 911 tapes strongly suggest Zimmerman overstepped his bounds, they say, when the Sanford neighborhood crime-watch captain said he was following Trayvon and appeared to ignore a police request to stay away.

“The guy lost his defense right then,” said Peaden. “When he said ‘I’m following him,’ he lost his defense.”

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nake...ed-doesnt-deserve-immunity.html#storylink=cpy

 

[jjenny]

Miami Herald's commentary had some interesting angles on the law, and I hope will shore up:


"Stand Your Ground fathers: Trayvon Martin's killer should likely be arrested, doesn't deserve immunity"

LINK: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2012/03/stand-your-ground-fathers-trayvon-martins-shooter-should-likely-be-arrested-doesnt-deserve-immunity.html

Of course they are gonna defend this law since they came up with it. They should look at stats. Rate of "justifiable homicide" tripling under this law?

 

[HiHater]

Of course they are gonna defend this law since they came up with it. They should look at stats. Rate of "justifiable homicide" tripling under this law?

Is there anything to indicate that the overall homicide rate went up? Or are we just seeing people who would normally (without the law) be murder victims turn the tables on their attackers?

 

[chefmom]

GZ seems to be very well protected by "stand your ground" law.

"In Florida, the shooter usually only has to say these magic words to get a Get Out of Jail Free card: "I felt I was in imminent danger, so I shot in self-defense.""

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/co...ath-mayocol-b032012-20120319,0,5397867.column

GZ may indeed be protected by FLORIDA law, but he is in no way immune to FEDERAL laws, which, IMO, he has broken several of. I do believe we have moved past this whole "Stand Your Ground" statute and are now looking at federal charges.

 

[jjenny]

The link was already posted, but I think these words, from the sponsors of the "Stand Your Ground" law, should be posted clearly on this board:



http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nake...ed-doesnt-deserve-immunity.html#storylink=cpy

They can defend it all they want, but look at the stats. It's like a wild-wild west out there.
"In the years since the law was amended in 2005, there has been a surge in the number of cases like Mr. Dooley’s and that of Trayvon Martin, killed by the neighborhood volunteer, George Zimmerman, last month. A 2010 review by The St. Petersburg Times found that rates of justifiable homicide tripled since the law was passed and that “twice a week, on average, someone’s killing was considered warranted.”"

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/20...g-focuses-attention-on-stand-your-ground-law/

 

[jjenny]

Is there anything to indicate that the overall homicide rate went up? Or are we just seeing people who would normally (without the law) be murder victims turn the tables on their attackers?

Well I guess that depends on what one considers "justifiable." Is killing of Trayvon "justifiable?"

 

[Lovejac]

GZ may indeed be protected by FLORIDA law, but he is in no way immune to FEDERAL laws, which, IMO, he has broken several of. I do believe we have moved past this whole "Stand Your Ground" statute and are now looking at federal charges.

From your lips, to God's Ears lease: