FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[Adrienne37]

What disturbs me is how Mary describes the sounds of a child whimpering right before TM was shot? That means he saw the gun and knew what was coming.

I'm a woman and had GZ approached me in such a manner and I was not obligated to answer him and tried to walk away only to have GZ grab my arm, my first reaction would be to kick him, and guess what, I'd be dead afterwards.

Pe

Yes you would have been dead on the spot LambChop. Good Lord, what it must have felt like for Trayvon. I can only imagine.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I doubt that. 9mm doesn't have that much kick. I think Trayvon attacked him.

Do you think Zimmerman was in a perfect shooting stance when he shot Martin?

 

[Belinda]

Do you think Zimmerman was in a perfect shooting stance when he shot Martin?

This is what I'm wondering about? How likely is it that an unprepared shooter would hit themselves in the face when firing? Was trying to look up stats but my stupid computer won't let me.

 

[daisy7]

Neighborhood Watch captain George Zimmerman, who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last month, sparking a national outcry, thought the killing "would all blow over," a friend, Joe Oliver, told ABC News this morning.

"Because he was there and he knows what happened...he's been very confident - naively - that this would all blow over," Oliver said.

Oliver, who said he has known Zimmerman for about 10 years, and Zimmerman's legal advisor, Craig Sonner, also appeared on The Today Show.

(snip)

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120325_1_abc-news-arizona-iced-tea-joe-oliver

Here's the Today Show video:

[ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46848160#46848160"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]

 

[Rougelatete]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IzzyBlanche
But being punched in the nose or pushed to the ground does not give you the right to retaliate with deadly force, either.

It certainly does under FL "stand your ground" law.

No, it doesn't. The perceived aggressor (GZ) has the burden of proof to PROVE that he was acting in self defense and to PROVE that he did not initiate the altercation. The SYG law does not give someone automatic license to just haul off and kill another person and then claim self defense. You must PROVE the above. That is what is so maddening about this case -- LE is not compelling GZ to prove that he followed the law.

 

[Adrienne37]

Experts: U.S. could bring hate charge in Trayvon Martin case...

MIAMI (AP) – The U.S. Justice Department could bring a hate crime charge against the shooter in the killing of black Florida teenager Trayvon Martin if there is sufficient evidence the slaying was motivated by racial bias and not simply a fight that spiraled out of control, legal experts and former prosecutors say.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-25/trayvon-martin-shooting/53768450/1

 

[LambChop]

To be fair I do not think GZ ever intended to shoot TM. I think it would be reasonable to think all TM wanted to do was get away from this man who never identified himself and GZ wanted to make sure this one did not get away. Without a weapon shouldn't the benefit of doubt be given to the victim and not the shooter. At the time LE did not know who TM was and took GZ word that TM was a suspect, on drugs and did not belong there, or LE would have gone door-to-door to find his parents. They never did that so LE viewed TM, at the time of their investigation and reports, as a viable suspect on drugs. They made their decision that GZ was innocent based on what he claimed to be the truth. TM was not on drugs, did live there, was not armed and was simply returning home from the store when a strange man started following him. We know they fought, that is clear. But you have one person who clearly is headed in the direction of his home and the other one who is pursuing without identifying himself to the victim. So TM views GZ as an assailant and GZ views himself as someone with authority. GZ failed to communicate, failed to listen and failed to use proper judgment. jmo

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Wow, just wow. We see how Trayvon is still being looked @ by GZ. Maybe not his words exactly, but apparently thats the impression his own friend had. "blow over" wow.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[LambChop]

Do you think Zimmerman was in a perfect shooting stance when he shot Martin?

I think if GZ could extend his arm out to avoid a kickback from his gun he would have been far away from TM that there was no life threatening danger to him. jmo

 

[Rougelatete]

Trayvon Martin Shooter 'Couldn't Stop Crying' After Shooting..

"After this started – the reports I got – [Zimmerman] "couldn't stop crying,'' Joe Oliver told "Good Morning America" on Sunday.

Oliver, who said he is a close friend of the family, said Zimmerman has gone into hiding, fears for his life, and is "just now becoming aware of how big this has gotten."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...rying-shooting/story?id=15997075#.T28yITH2b2Y

I bet Trayvon's parents couldn't stop crying after the shooting, either. Oh, geez, Mr. Zimmerman. Cry me a river.

 

[songline]

And others have expressed opinions that this law applies to Zimmerman (assuming Zimmerman hasn't attacked first).
The law clearly doesn't say Zimmeran had to be in his home or truck for law to apply to him. He can be anywhere he can legally be.

From the articleHornsby says the 2005 bill allows Zimmerman’s lawyers to argue to a judge – before any trial -- that the case should be dismissed on grounds he was permitted to defend himself. If the case isn’t dismissed, they could argue self-defense at trial.

Daniel Vice, senior attorney with the gun-control group Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, contends “Stand Your Ground,” combined with Florida laws allowing people to carry guns in public, have made it difficult to pursue criminal charges against people who shoot others and then say it was self-defense.

http://www.witn.com/news/headlines/...te_Trayvon_Martin_Case_143607846.html?ref=846

 

[LambChop]

If the gun were in GZ's waistband and he was 3 or 4 inches shorter than TM and GZ pulled the gun then shot in self defense at a very close range TM's wound should have been in the stomach area presuming GZ fired right after pulling his gun out. A chest wound would mean GZ targeted the chest and not just pulled his gun and shot to protect himself. This is why a homocide detective is so very important at the scene. jmo

 

[songline]

The reason that TM was visiting with his father. Because he does live in MIAMI with his mother is
because he was dismissed from school.
Dismissed because he was in an area that was off limits.
I WONDER WHY THAT IS NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION...Seems to me this good boy was not always so good.

<modsnip> I READ THIS ON THE INTERNET last night.

 

[rossva]

I don't have photoshop and even if I did I would not do that because there is no evidence any of that stuff happened unless you have a link to the angle he was standing and the lighting where he was standing.

pic #1 is the original pic as ran by the Miami Herald

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

pic #2 is the pic altered to change the public's perception

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/images-8/trayvon-martin.jpg

Clearly, it has been lightened, or softened, somehow. Along with other possible alterations, he looks far more, perhaps innocent is the right word, in the altered image. For the record, that has nothing to do with the guilt, or innocence, of anyone involved, but more to do with the reporting of the story.

 

[jjenny]

If the gun were in GZ's waistband and he was 3 or 4 inches shorter than TM and GZ pulled the gun then shot in self defense at a very close range TM's wound should have been in the stomach area presuming GZ fired right after pulling his gun out. A chest wound would mean GZ targeted the chest and not just pulled his gun and shot to protect himself. This is why a homocide detective is so very important at the scene. jmo

That assumes they were both standing up.

 

[ggg]

Trayvon Martin Shooter 'Couldn't Stop Crying' After Shooting..


Whatever!! The moment he started crying was the moment that he found out that people were going to be taking a long hard look at this case and that he stands to be charged with murder.

He better stay hidden with that $10,000 bounty on his head from the Black Panthers.

You darn straight it's gotten so big. I'm sure his dad fully instructed him on what to say to law enforcement that night and he thought he was free and clear when they allowed him to go home. He never imagined it would get this big. What a coward this man is.


~jmo~

<modsnip>

The police and the DA have refused to file charges indicates that they are aware of exculpatory evidence we aren&#8217;t privy to or that there is insufficient evidence to attempt a trial.

The immense amount of public and media pressure being exerted against the police dept. and DA&#8217;s office would more than likely have resulted in them doing something by now. That they&#8217;ve weathered this storm says a lot. I commend them for being resolute in the face of what they&#8217;re enduring.

<modsnip>


http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

 

[ynotdivein]

The reason that TM was visiting with his father. Because he does live in MIAMI with his mother is
because he was dismissed from school.
Dismissed because he was in an area that was off limits.
I WONDER WHY THAT IS NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION...Seems to me this good boy was not always so good.

<modsnip> I READ THIS ON THE INTERNET last night.

Songline, could you provide a link to this information about TM being "dismissed for being in an area that was off limits"? I remember reading that he was suspended because of tardies.

 

[SuziQ]

Can someone do a google search on gun kickback injuries? I have a google redirect virus I can't get rid of that prevents me from doing it. TIA.

Not a google search but...from posters here educating me and others I've since talked to, gun dealers and collectors, a 9mm barely kicks back. My son showed me the bullets and they are tiny.ETA: I pretty much got laughed at for suggesting a 9mm giving someone a bloody nose. lol.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Does anyone have a link for GZ height and weight. I have seen on other sites GZ was 5' 2".TYA

 

[momshrink]

Trayvon Martin Shooter 'Couldn't Stop Crying' After Shooting..

"After this started – the reports I got – [Zimmerman] "couldn't stop crying,'' Joe Oliver told "Good Morning America" on Sunday.

Oliver, who said he is a close friend of the family, said Zimmerman has gone into hiding, fears for his life, and is "just now becoming aware of how big this has gotten."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...rying-shooting/story?id=15997075#.T28yITH2b2Y

Whatever!! The moment he started crying was the moment that he found out that people were going to be taking a long hard look at this case and that he stands to be charged with murder.

He better stay hidden with that $10,000 bounty on his head from the Black Panthers.

You darn straight it's gotten so big. I'm sure his dad fully instructed him on what to say to law enforcement that night and he thought he was free and clear when they allowed him to go home. He never imagined it would get this big. What a coward this man is.


~jmo~

IMO, GZ is crying for himself. He now realizes that wherever he goes, he will be known as the man who shot an unarmed 17 year old because of his erroneous beliefs about black teens.
He was withdrawn as a student at Seminole State College. This is an extreme measure. He was not given the option of online classes.
Whether convicted or not, he will have to live with himself knowing he killed an unarmed teen. He will be shunned.
All JMO.