17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[mikeysmommom]

Bruises do stay after death and often become more prominent, and cuts and scratches would still be on his hands, but the undertaker said he didn't see any. That will also be in autopsy report which isn't going to be released anytime soon.

The importance of the undertaker's observation is that Trayvon probably did not beat GZ with his hands the way he and his family have stated, and if he didn't, there was no reason for him to fear Trayvon and no reason to "stand his ground."

Even if the kid threw the can of ice tea at Zimmerman, that doesn't constitute the fear and danger factor needed to justify the killing. See the link in my signature to the Florida gun licensing website.

The boy had no defensive wounds on his hands either, which could mean that he was not facing Zimmerman in a struggle. So the question is, was Trayvon walking away when he was shot? Was he attacked from behind and tackled to the ground because Zimmerman didn't, as he said, want him to "get away"? No one has the answers to those questions yet.

No we do not have enough answers yet to a lot of questions.IIRC The undertaker also said TM did not have any blood on his hands,and of course he would not the ME office would have cleaned up any blood.IMO The Autopsy will show any defensive wounds and bruises.IMO When I see official reports will I know facts all we know now is a lot of speculation,JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46922042/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

. She said she heard what sounded like the earpiece to Trayvon’s cellphone falling away before the line went dead.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Zimmerman's account of that night leaked by police:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1222087.ece

The problem is, none of that jives much with his appearance later on the police video. Also, some of it contradicts what witnesses have said.

I personally will never understand why police waited so long to contact some of the witnesses. That just seems unbelievable to me.

from that link

One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Martin on top, pounding him, and the witness was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.
Zimmerman then shot Martin once in the chest from very close range, authorities said, according to the Sentinel.

It does not say if they fought over the gun or not.It does say he was shot in the chest,which IMO could very well happen if a gun is sandwiched between two men.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Wow, if your driver's license is 70 or 80 pounds off like George's, that's awful. If I were you I'd get that fixed.

I guess the fact that George is stocky with a muscular, adult body made him look bigger to the witness compared to the tall, skinny, obviously young kid who only lived as a 17 year old for 21 days

imo

IF his license you saw is from when he was arrested, that was years ago.How do we know what weight is on a newer one.IMO GZ no longer is stocky.He looks trim and fit in the video.At 6'3 TM had 6" on GZ and both close in weight,depends on if his hoody was xlarge(nephew is a twig and he wears his 2x) they may have thought TM was the bigger of the two.With his jacket on you really can not see if he is muscular. I am only 5' so to me the taller one would be the bigger one.JMO

 

[Badlands]

As for am I guessing about the location of his residence? LOL, if that's what you need to call it, feel free but there's just a touch more to it than that.

Tracy Martin stood on the sidewalk at the spot his son's body was located and said Trayvon's back door was 70 yds, or 210 feet down the sidewalk. Google Earth has a measurement app that calculates distance in feet, inches, miles, or centimeters. Since I have a picture from the video very clearly showing where Mr. Martin was standing when he said that, I pushed a couple of buttons and let GE do the rest.

According to the New York Times graphics, Trayvon's back door was in the middle of the building at the end of the sidewalk.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

 

[codecracker]

Wow, if your driver's license is 70 or 80 pounds off like George's, that's awful. If I were you I'd get that fixed.

I guess the fact that George is stocky with a muscular, adult body made him look bigger to the witness compared to the tall, skinny, obviously young kid who only lived as a 17 year old for 21 days

imo

in the dark,one wearing a jacket and the other a hoodie sweatshirt IMHO its not obvious that the shorter guy would be the bigger guy compared to the much taller guy.....again that is MHO....IF GZ license says 240 he in no way weighs that much now by that video 160-170 IMHO

 

[GrandmaTo4]

If that were the case I would think GZ would have been arrested as soon as it was heard if it was very favorable to TM.Why wait?

The Sanford police never even contacted Trayvon's girlfriend. IMO, they didn't want to contact anyone who would conflict with their very rapid excusing of murder by George Zimmerman.

Their entire handling of the tragedy was an unbelievable travesty!

Trayvon's father returned from dinner with his girlfriend before 11 PM and there was no indication of a crime scene.

How many outdoor - in the dark - in-the-rain crime scenes can be completely processed and totally cleaned up in three hours?

In my opinion, it was not just incompetence. There were too many things that were done waaaaay tooo sloppily and waaaay too fast.

Someone wanted George to go home and that be the end of it -- right from the beginning.

If there wasn't such a HUGE STINK made by everyone who was disgusted about the details of Trayvon's MURDER, we would not be talking about either Trayvon or George right now.

Makes me wonder how many other George Zimmermans are out there. Sad -- shocking -- and very, very scary!

All in my sole opinion

 

[codecracker]

Zimmerman's account of that night leaked by police:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1222087.ece

The problem is, none of that jives much with his appearance later on the police video. Also, some of it contradicts what witnesses have said.

I personally will never understand why police waited so long to contact some of the witnesses. That just seems unbelievable to me.

according to that GZ he was walking back to his SUV (not a truck) guess its possible he would call his truck a SUV so this MHO. On the video of the crime scene you can see a SUV parked near cruiser. I can tell if that is police SUV because it appears to have red and blue light either on it or reflecting from it it doesn't appeared marked but I am not familar with Sanford police vehicles. The SUV appears to have headlights on which would account for someone hearing a ding when GZ got out of his vehicle. If this is GZ vehicle might help with the crime scene drawing being done here. Again I am not sure if it has blue lights coming from it or reflecting on it...can anyone else tell? Going back in the thread so I can repost that video.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

in the dark,one wearing a jacket and the other a hoodie sweatshirt IMHO its not obvious that the shorter guy would be the bigger guy compared to the much taller guy.....again that is MHO....IF GZ license says 240 he in no way weighs that much now by that video 160-170 IMHO

I stated he does not weigh 240 lbs. NOW. However, IMO he doesn't weigh 160-170 lbs. either. Wanna bet he's between 190 and 200?

It really doesn't matter what WE think he weighs. The fact of the matter is that the witness thought, and also stated he was the bigger guy.

In any case, he was the experienced, well-built ADULT -- up against a skinny, innocent kid who had just turned 17 years old, 21 days earlier.

You 'spose he's put the notch in his semi-automatic 9mm handle yet?

imo

 

[highflyer]

According to the New York Times graphics, Trayvon's back door was in the middle of the building at the end of the sidewalk.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

As much as I would like to see some fairness in all this it makes me very uncomfortable to see where Zimmerman or Martin was staying or people remarking what kind of a vehicle Zimmerman has. To me it does not appear that this case has been treated justly at all but with the heightened tension on this I fear for the Zimmerman and the Martin families.

 

[codecracker]

here is the link http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...n-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

the video of the vehicle is around the 125 to 129 mark......

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Zimmerman's account of that night leaked by police:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1222087.ece

The problem is, none of that jives much with his appearance later on the police video. Also, some of it contradicts what witnesses have said.

I personally will never understand why police waited so long to contact some of the witnesses. That just seems unbelievable to me.

bbm

I heartily agree ThoughtFox.

However, it makes perfect sense if Police chief, Bill Lee, Capt. Robert O'Connor, the investigations supervisor, along with State Attorney Norman Wolfinger wanted the whole inconvenient *incident* to go away.

imho

 

[francie]

Absolutely! It is all over the Net by various attorneys that if the homeowner's association does not have insurance, each of the homeowners will have to pay out-of-pocket for any awards from the civil suit that they feel will most assuredly come.

Not only that, they also say the homeowners might be responsible for paying for Zimmerman's legal defense because the homeowner association newsletter informed them that Zimmerman was acting as the "captain of the watch" ... and the homeowner's association newsletter stated Zimmerman was the one to contact if they could not contact the police.

I dare say that when the homeowners find out that they might have to pay out-of-pocket for ANY of this mess, their memories might suddenly vanish.

IMO

I wonder if any of the witnesses are renters, like GZ? :waitasec:

 

[Elley Mae]

The 2 experts that say its GZ's voice

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/

 

[Elley Mae]

I wonder if any of the witnesses are renters, like GZ? :waitasec:

I read in one article that there are a some few alot that are foreclosed and that because of the market the rent is actually cheap. jmo

 

[highflyer]

The 2 experts that say its GZ's voice

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/

No, the two experts said it WAS NOT GZ's voice.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/0...eams-on-911-tape-werent-george-zimmernas.html

 

[codecracker]

The 2 experts that say its GZ's voice

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/

When I go to your first link I go to page about TM/GZ and I read this


"If I were to conduct a formal voice identification test, here are the steps I would take:

1. Remove the samples of the screaming from the 911 call and isolate them in a digital audio file. Remove background noise and raise the volume of the male screams.

2. Remove portions of George Zimmerman’s voice from the 911 call to serve as an exemplar.

3. Edit both speech samples back to back and compare

4. Ask for a speech exemplar from George Zimmerman screaming for help

5. Conduct a voice identification test."

so unless they got a speech exemplar of GZ screaming for help how did they come to their conclusions?

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/voice-identification

he also states he wants to make it clear this is not a formal voice identification.,,,,,,

 

[claudicici]

Zimmerman's account of that night leaked by police:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1222087.ece

The problem is, none of that jives much with his appearance later on the police video. Also, some of it contradicts what witnesses have said.

I personally will never understand why police waited so long to contact some of the witnesses. That just seems unbelievable to me.

So many details of Zimmerman's account do not seem credible.
If he really shot Trayvon while Trayvon was on top of him,at very close range,into the chest,there would have to be blood on GZ's clothes.
He is squeaky clean in the police video.IMO that's not possible.
I also don't think it's possible that Trayvon STOOD UP after he was shot?
GZ must have crawled up from underneath Trayvon's bloody body.

 

[Elley Mae]

When I go to your first link I go to page about TM/GZ and I read this


"If I were to conduct a formal voice identification test, here are the steps I would take:

1. Remove the samples of the screaming from the 911 call and isolate them in a digital audio file. Remove background noise and raise the volume of the male screams.

2. Remove portions of George Zimmerman’s voice from the 911 call to serve as an exemplar.

3. Edit both speech samples back to back and compare

4. Ask for a speech exemplar from George Zimmerman screaming for help

5. Conduct a voice identification test."

so unless they got a speech exemplar of GZ screaming for help how did they come to their conclusions?

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/voice-identification

he also states he wants to make it clear this is not a formal voice identification.,,,,,,

Thank you

 

[Elley Mae]

No, the two experts said it WAS NOT GZ's voice.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/0...eams-on-911-tape-werent-george-zimmernas.html

It is what I meant, thanks :blushing: