17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[GrandmaTo4]

My point is taking a hit from behind equalizes any weight advantage. My SIL never had any chance to defend himself or duck to avoid the punch. If TM attacked GZ from behind, then he could easily have been downed and rolled over once he had hit the ground. FWIW, my trim short stature uncle was known for beating just about anyone he got into a tussle with, no matter the other man's size. IMO, your point about weight is inaccurate.

As for the voice(s) on the tapes. IMO, once this gets to court both sides will have experts to contradict the other. Given that both TM and GZ were probably screaming at some point, I don't know that the audio will be the "gotcha" some think it will be. Especially given the witness accounts that say otherwise.

IMO, GZ was probably on the ground at first, but then later was standing over TM after he'd been shot.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

From what I've read, "voice analysis" is as definitive as finger prints.

How do you suppose the CIA was able to affirm that all the audio tapes supposedly from Bin Laden were indeed confirmed to be him?

It might be harder than you think to find a high paid voice expert who will go against the FBI and many, many others.

As far as your, "... trim short stature uncle was known for beating just about anyone he got into a tussle with, no matter the other man's size" --- that's the exception, not the rule.

Why do you suppose all High School and College wrestling and all professional boxing has specific weight classifications for competing?

And, AGAIN ... it is pretty difficult to punch someone in the nose from behind, as Zimmerman claims he was taken down to the sidewalk.

imo

 

[mfcmom]

I thought the autopsy is going to be done by non bias group.
Or at least a secon one done by someone the state selects.

The autopsy was done by the Volusia County Coroners office (Think Dr. G is the head person there could be wrong) this fella was the funeral director in Broward County.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

This is why I don't think he was racially profiling TM. I think he profiled everyone if they looked suspicious enough.

Ahhh, but his calls always defined a 'black' person, teen, child...so on a whole, I believe he was...:maddening:

 

[ohiogirl]

I keep seeing witch hunt:

"The term "witch-hunt" since the 1930s has also been in use as a metaphor to refer to moral panics in general (frantic persecution of perceived enemies).' from the dictionary

I'm not sure that is the right term. Trying to find out what happened that night and the motivations of both people involved is not a witch hunt on GZ. GZ has a past history of violent behavior and we have all read the articles and statements. Descriptions from those who know him. They are facts that give us an idea of where GZ was coming from that night. Statements made by his family, his attorney, his neighbors all figure in to give us an idea of what made him step out of the car and go after TM. There is a reason and we are getting close to the truth.

And this is not directed at any one post but when I see a very defensive posting regarding GZ it leads me to believe some are feeling the sand shifting beneath their feet so in order to gain their balance they have to find wrong with the other person. We were asked to stick to the facts and I think that is what we are all trying to do so examining GZ is our only option when we do not know why he decided to follow TM.

All I have heard from those who support GZ's story is that GZ was justified. But why? We have no proof that all of what GZ has said is true. Day-by-day we are seeing more and more to discredit him. GZ gave a statement and if what he said is not ringing true that calls for us to question everything he has claimed happened that night. It is what investigators do. No one has yet given him a free ticket. And there will be more to come.

While two people can contribute to an event usually only one is the instigator. The initial part of the instigation was the call to LE by GZ. We have a right to know why he made that call. jmo

And we do have a statement by the lead detective that he wanted charges brought. This needs to be looked at in detail, imo. :seeya:
I am anxious to hear the outcome of the investigation. Then maybe we will know more.
All of these newspeople and others commenting in the press need to take a step back, imo, and let the investigation run it's course.

 

[mercuriod]

The autopsy was done by the Volusia County Coroners office (Think Dr. G is the head person there could be wrong) this fella was the funeral director in Broward County.

No Dr. G is the Medical Examiner for Orange County, Marie A. Herrmann, M.D.
is the Medical Examiner for Volusia County.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

From what I've read, "voice analysis" is as definitive as finger prints.

How do you suppose the CIA was able to affirm that all the audio tapes supposedly from Bin Laden were indeed confirmed to be him?

It might be harder than you think to find a high paid voice expert who will go against the FBI and many, many others.

As far as your, "... trim short stature uncle was known for beating just about anyone he got into a tussle with, no matter the other man's size" --- that's the exception, not the rule.

Why do you suppose all High School and College wrestling and all professional boxing has specific weight classifications for competing?

And, AGAIN ... it is pretty difficult to punch someone in the nose from behind, as Zimmerman claims he was taken down to the sidewalk.

imo

BBM


EXCELLENT POINT! You certainly can't punch someone in the nose when you come up from behind! This, right here, shows that, at least ONE of GZ's stories is not true.

What I glean from that is the old adage "The TRUTH doesn't change".

My conclusion from all this is if GZ is not telling the truth with one story - his credibility is shot. JMHO

Wonder if he'll ever take a poly? Doubt it - but a girl can hope, can't she?




JMHO

 

[mfcmom]

No Dr. G is the Medical Examiner for Orange County, Marie A. Herrmann, M.D.
is the Medical Examiner for Volusia County.

Wasn't sure thanks should have known that used to live in Volusia County.

 

[leanaí]

Make that millions grandma. There are presently 2,215,670 people out there (according to the change.org petition on behalf of Trayvon) who doesn't believe Zimmerman's story.


~jmo~

Most of which are people who believe the lies told by the media.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Plus one more if we include the lead investigator.

JMHO

Thanks for the correction annalia. You're absolutely right. I sure underestimated the numbers -- and I signed the petition too.

 

[iluvmua]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-case-exposes-worst-media-210020839.html

3. In an flailing effort to break news in a month-old shooting, CBS News aired an interview with Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who handled Trayvon Martin's burial.

"There were no physical signs like there had been a scuffle," Kurtz declared, which the network said proves Zimmerman's claims of a violent encounter with Martin before the shooting are false. "The hands--I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you, and that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there. He looked perfectly normal to me when he came in and the story just does not make sense that he was in this type of scuffle or fight in anything that we could see."

Except, he said, the gunshot wound.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

BBM


EXCELLENT POINT! You certainly can't punch someone in the nose when you come up from behind! This, right here, shows that, at least ONE of GZ's stories is not true.

What I glean from that is the old adage "The TRUTH doesn't change".

My conclusion from all this is if GZ is not telling the truth with one story - his credibility is shot. JMHO

Wonder if he'll ever take a poly? Doubt it - but a girl can hope, can't she?




JMHO

Hate to quote my own post but that really got the wheels turning.

We know that TM was on the phone with the gf. The gf says she heard both GZ and TM speak to each other (at least the first sentences).

And here is where this goes. With all of GZ's stories that he's told or LE's told or GZ's attny, family and friends have told - NOT A ONE has that particular detail in it. Not one.

Why would no one from GZ's camp ever say that TM's was on the phone - now maybe GZ didn't know (earbuds in the ears with hoodie up) but still - the initial confrontation - GZ's camp has never told a version with those details included. There is one story but the words exchanged are no where near what the gf's saying.

So again, I have to ask - why all the different versions?

The truth doesn't change.




JMHO

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Make that millions grandma. There are presently 2,215,670 people out there (according to the change.org petition on behalf of Trayvon) who doesn't believe Zimmerman's story.


~jmo~

Whoops!

I'm sorry Adrienne. I should have thanked you first for the correction. There are a whole lot of us who are demanding justice, huh?

Let's hope it's delivered as swiftly as possible.

And thank you for upping my much too low numbers.

 

[cityslick]

Crime map of the complex from Oct - now.

http://www.crimemapping.com/map.aspx?aid=5dc41631-9542-443d-83e6-64ac5549aba7

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hate to quote my own post but that really got the wheels turning.

We know that TM was on the phone with the gf. The gf says she heard both GZ and TM speak to each other (at least the first sentences).

And here is where this goes. With all of GZ's stories that he's told or LE's told or GZ's attny, family and friends have told - NOT A ONE has that particular detail in it. Not one.

Why would no one from GZ's camp ever say that TM's was on the phone - now maybe GZ didn't know (earbuds in the ears with hoodie up) but still - the initial confrontation - GZ's camp has never told a version with those details included. There is one story but the words exchanged are no where near what the gf's saying.

So again, I have to ask - why all the different versions?

The truth doesn't change.




JMHO

Great catch, WOO! I am not sure GZ's camp was expecting this development of Tray being on the phone with <modsnip> when the confrontation began. JMO

 

[cityslick]

Ahhh, but his calls always defined a 'black' person, teen, child...so on a whole, I believe he was...:maddening:

Has all his 911 calls been made public? I didn't know that.

 

[LambChop]

Most of which are people who believe the lies told by the media.

Are you stating that GZ's attorney, family and friends are all lying because we've heard them give different versions of what GZ said happened???? jmo

 

[cityslick]

I keep seeing witch hunt:

"The term "witch-hunt" since the 1930s has also been in use as a metaphor to refer to moral panics in general (frantic persecution of perceived enemies).' from the dictionary

I'm not sure that is the right term. Trying to find out what happened that night and the motivations of both people involved is not a witch hunt on GZ. GZ has a past history of violent behavior and we have all read the articles and statements. Descriptions from those who know him. They are facts that give us an idea of where GZ was coming from that night. Statements made by his family, his attorney, his neighbors all figure in to give us an idea of what made him step out of the car and go after TM. There is a reason and we are getting close to the truth.

And this is not directed at any one post but when I see a very defensive posting regarding GZ it leads me to believe some are feeling the sand shifting beneath their feet so in order to gain their balance they have to find wrong with the other person. We were asked to stick to the facts and I think that is what we are all trying to do so examining GZ is our only option when we do not know why he decided to follow TM.

All I have heard from those who support GZ's story is that GZ was justified. But why? We have no proof that all of what GZ has said is true. Day-by-day we are seeing more and more to discredit him. GZ gave a statement and if what he said is not ringing true that calls for us to question everything he has claimed happened that night. It is what investigators do. No one has yet given him a free ticket. And there will be more to come.

While two people can contribute to an event usually only one is the instigator. The initial part of the instigation was the call to LE by GZ. We have a right to know why he made that call. jmo

It's only a witch hunt if it turns out that GZ is telling the complete truth and the story (as we are led to believe) does not make TM an innocent in this.

For example, I can say for certainty that the Duke lacrosse case was a witch hunt. Everyone had those boys convicted or a good majority did. It was covered by the media, especially locally, as such.

 

[annalia]

Thanks for the correction annalia. You're absolutely right. I sure underestimated the numbers -- and I signed the petition too.

Awwww, I wasn't knocking you, I really hadn't even seen that you said hundreds of thousands. I was just mentioning that the lead investigator doesn't buy his story either.

I haven't signed it but think I will, so that makes plus one more, lol.

JMHO

 

[iluvmua]

Are you stating that GZ's attorney, family and friends are all lying because we've heard them give different versions of what GZ said happened???? jmo

They have all been giving the same story GZ said, even the police has given the same story that GZ told them.

None of their stories have changed.

 

[Footwarrior]

Has all his 911 calls been made public? I didn't know that.

Reports from all of Zimmerman's calls to the police since 2004 can be found here.

Audio of the his last 6 calls was also released. Perhaps someone else has a link.