17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #20

[annalia]

GZ had a license to carry, I didn't think it was confirmed that he was officially on NW duty when this occurred. I don't know that GZ was still following him either. I'm back to why TM attacked GZ in the first place ? If GZ had been following him that closely, TM would have known that GZ was on the phone with LE. Why didn't TM just wait for the cops to show up to report this injustice ? Unless he wanted to show GZ who the real man was ?

BBM

There's no answer to your question because that's not what happened.

First, GZ was in his car when he called 911, how would Trayvon have known who he was on the phone with?
Second, GZ himself said that Trayvon ran, Trayvon was down by the other entrance, so again, how would Trayvon know that GZ was on the phone with 911?
Third, it wasn't until the very end that GZ got close to Trayvon, he wasn't on the phone with 911 at the time.

As far as who wanted to show who what a real man they were, GZ's own words bear out what tough guy he thought himself to be, this effin ****, those *advertiser censored****** always get away. In order to portray Trayvon as the one who was that way, we need ignore all of that, misstate, twist and misrepresent facts, take things out of context, use irrelevant incidents as a justification for his death.

JMHO

 

[Velouria]

Everyone's experience is different, though. In my 1000% affluent/white (and I mean that almost literally) neck of the woods, my dd told me I was a racist when I suggested to her that the information *reported* in People magazine about this case was not necessarily an objective statement of absolute fact :maddening: lol

So, ime, neither affluence nor whiteness makes a racist. Quite the contrary here, at least. At least wrt the children, regardless of what their parents may think. The constant message from the school is to value diversity and the children that I know, including my own, have internalized it to a degree that I was not even aware of until that conversation.

BBM

But learning to value and respect diversity a good thing, isn't it?

 

[Isabelle]

Small comfort! Empty police car to protect school children!

 

[Cher352]

GZ needs to explain why he stalked and accosted this young man, especially after calling the LE. TM had every right to fight for his life vs an attacker.

Do we know yet whether he "stalked and accosted" yet? All I have heard so far is that he followed him at some point.

 

[Velouria]

So, do you think if Zimmerman had encountered the young man up close and determined the young man was white or hispanic, Zimmerman would have apologized and told him to go on about his business?

Nope. I don't think he would have been following him in the first place.

One major question stands out in this situation...eight minutes between when Zimmerman called 911 and when Trayvon was shot...with a running head start a few hundred yards from Brandy Green's home, why didn't Tray make it there safely?

How do we know TM was running all that way? And how do we know GZ wasn't running, too?

 

[Velouria]

I didn't say I had a problem with it, only providing a link since velouria kept asking for one.

Sorry, but I never asked you for a link to anything. :waitasec:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I'm not convinced Mr Zimmerman set it up, I think instead that Mr Zimmerman has a streak of the dramatics in his veins. I think he liked to play cop. He made the situation dramatic to the 911 operator to make himself seem the ever vigilent hero type. I think he stalked Mr Martin because he wanted to corner the perp he'd allegedly caught as if to show LE, when they arrived, that he 'Super George' was their equal but when Mr Martin refused to obey George's authoritiiii he lost control, anger took over, a fight ensued as Mr Martin tried to fight for his life, and Mr Zimmerman fired his weapon.

Isn't that what I said too? you call it dramatic...I only said he set up the call to make it appear as if TM was headed straight for him but in reality, I believe he headed straight to TM...GZ has no authority over TM...TM didn't have to answer his question of what are you doing here? Who the hell is GZ?

Yes, I agree with his 'cop mentality'...only I see it as being a vigilante as FT stated, GZ was fed up with the crime in their community...
What I'd like to see is truly how much crime was there in Twin Lakes..GZ can't know every person who lives there or goes to visit someone there..He's too over the top and I pray that he will be arrested..then his CWP will be taken for he's a danger with a gun..he knew it was a 'kid' but it didn't matter to G...never tried to render aid, sat on TM's back, reholstered his weapon, as if standing over his trophy...He's a danger and if he walks free allowed to continue to carry a concealed weapon, no one is safe..

He shows no remorse especially on his website begging for living expenses and impeding legal fees..which was all his own doing...his life was forever altered? What about TM and his parents/siblings?

No remorse whatsoever...:jail:

 

[Aedrys]

GZ needs to explain why he stalked and accosted this young man, especially after calling the LE. TM had every right to fight for his life vs an attacker.

Exactly. People assume TM was a that just jumped poor GZ. Why would he do that? How did he go from running away to accosting GZ? That's the puzzle piece we don't have that is driving me crazy. I just don't think out of the blue TM decided to jump GZ. That just doesn't make sense. What does make sense is that GZ did or said something to make TM fear for his life and want to protect himself, or made him mad enough that running away wasn't an option anymore.

People are too willing to believe TM was some kind of mean, aggressive out to get GZ so that him using a gun on him is somehow okay. That just isn't right. We don't know what happened in that eight minutes to make Trayvon suddenly decide to attack a man with a gun, if that is even what happened. Yes, teenagers tend to be hotheads, but they usually don't attack without some kind of provocation. He was going to run. Then he didn't. Why? That is the main unanswered question here.

I think that is why this needs to go to a jury. There needs to be an explanation for what caused a youth that wasn't doing anything wrong, who was going to run like his girlfriend told him to, and then eight minutes later he's dead and witnesses are reporting he attacked GZ along with GZ having wounds. It just doesn't make any sense how he went from running and fear to attacking and then being shot.

 

[grammieto5]

I didn't think the 911 calls sounded dramatic.

I think GZ's speach sounded slurred ???

 

[LaLaw2000]

ITA.

Had Zimmerman been arrested on 2/26 and either detained or released on bail pending a thorough investigation (rather than being exonerated on a whim by Wolfinger) this wouldn't even be an issue. MOO

Exactly, suzihawk! Wolfinger didn't even have time to have listened to the 911 calls (even Zimmerman's), or know the witnesses' statements when he made the decision. IMO, Wolfinger did not take enough time to make an informed decision.

MOO

 

[CHICANA]

Please remember that we have nothing other than GZ's word that TM attacked him first.

Now we're blaming the victim for not paying closer attention to GZ's phone conversation?

We have his word + physical evidence + the police report to support it.
Based on that (not just GZ's word), I believe TM attacked GZ. Was he justified ? I don't know.
Where did I say I blamed TM for not paying attention to GZ's phone call ? I blame TM for the role, that IMO he played when he attacked GZ.
Many believe that if TM attacked GZ it was because he was following him. For TM to feel threatened by GZ I would expect that he was pretty close, right ? That's why TM was scared ? Since we know GZ was on the phone with LE for some time, it's plausible that he knew GZ was talking to LE. Maybe that's why he was mad.

 

[Marshmallow]

I didn't think the 911 calls sounded dramatic.

he's looking at me

 

[Velouria]

We have his word + physical evidence + the police report to support it.
Based on that (not just GZ's word), I believe TM attacked GZ. Was he justified ? I don't know.
Where did I say I blamed TM for not paying attention to GZ's phone call ? I blame TM for the role, that IMO he played when he attacked GZ.
Many believe that if TM attacked GZ it was because he was following him. For TM to feel threatened by GZ I would expect that he was pretty close, right ? That's why TM was scared ? Since we know GZ was on the phone with LE for some time, it's plausible that he knew GZ was talking to LE. Maybe that's why he was mad.

What physical evidence proves that TM attacked GZ first?

The police report recounts GZ's version of events that night. It's not as if the police were there and witnessed the whole thing.

 

[Marshmallow]

We have his word + physical evidence + the police report to support it.
Based on that (not just GZ's word), I believe TM attacked GZ. Was he justified ? I don't know.
Where did I say I blamed TM for not paying attention to GZ's phone call ? I blame TM for the role, that IMO he played when he attacked GZ.
Many believe that if TM attacked GZ it was because he was following him. For TM to feel threatened by GZ I would expect that he was pretty close, right ? That's why TM was scared ? Since we know GZ was on the phone with LE for some time, it's plausible that he knew GZ was talking to LE. Maybe that's why he was mad.

we really only have his word, and the police report can only cover Mr Zimmerman's side, Mr Martin was dead.

 

[LambChop]

GZ had a license to carry, I didn't think it was confirmed that he was officially on NW duty when this occurred. I don't know that GZ was still following him either. I'm back to why TM attacked GZ in the first place ? If GZ had been following him that closely, TM would have known that GZ was on the phone with LE. Why didn't TM just wait for the cops to show up to report this injustice ? Unless he wanted to show GZ who the real man was ?

NWP does not want guns involved when you call in a suspicious person. There is no "duty" other than to call it in. There is a misconception that this program is a patrol, on-duty security type of program. It is not. It is just simply calling in a suspicion that a crime is about to be committed or is being committed. That is where their responsibility ends. There is no evidence that proves TM attacked anyone. The only facts we have is that GZ followed TM when he was advised to stay with his truck until LE arrived. How would TM know who GZ was talking to as GZ never told TM even though he clearly had the opportunity to do so at the clubhouse. GZ never identified himself according to the dispatch tape. How would TM know the "cops" were on their way if he didn't know who GZ was talking to??? We know from phone records TM was on the phone with his GF. We know from where the body was recovered it was closer to where TM was staying and not where GZ claims TM jumped him and knocked him down. jmo

 

[jjenny]

What physical evidence proves that TM attacked GZ first?

The police report recounts GZ's version of events that night. It's not as if the police were there and witnessed the whole thing.

Whose version is it going to recount, considering TM can not tell his side of the story? For successful prosecution they would need to prove that what GZ is telling is not the truth, and how are they going to do that?

 

[Velouria]

Whose version is it going to recount, considering TM can not tell his side of the story? For successful prosecution they would need to prove that what GZ is telling is not the truth, and how are they going to do that?

Thanks, but I was responding to the poster's contention that the police report was proof that TM attacked GZ.

 

[CHICANA]

I think GZ's speach sounded slurred ???

I agree.

 

[LambChop]

We have his word + physical evidence + the police report to support it.
Based on that (not just GZ's word), I believe TM attacked GZ. Was he justified ? I don't know.
Where did I say I blamed TM for not paying attention to GZ's phone call ? I blame TM for the role, that IMO he played when he attacked GZ.
Many believe that if TM attacked GZ it was because he was following him. For TM to feel threatened by GZ I would expect that he was pretty close, right ? That's why TM was scared ? Since we know GZ was on the phone with LE for some time, it's plausible that he knew GZ was talking to LE. Maybe that's why he was mad.

There is no proof that TM attacked GZ. GZ said he was walking down the cut through path when TM attacked him and knocked him down. But TM's body was found yards away from where GZ said TM attacked him. If GZ's account is right about being knocked to the ground at that location how is he going to explain the distance to where TM's body was found when GZ claims he shot TM and TM fell backwards to where he landed. Fell backwards from a sitting position and landed facedown??? What we can see just does not match up with what we hear from GZ's side. In order to maintain GZ was not aggressively going after TM he claimed to have only walked that path to find a house number even though his car was parked where there are many house number visible. His claim is TM jumped him and knocked him down while he walked back on that same path after getting a house number but TM's body was found yards away.

Had LE done a proper investigation their conclusion would have been that the crime never happened according to GZ's statement. They were no where near the crosswalk that GZ claims TM banged his head on. There is a big hole in his story right there. This is something you just can't explain away. jmo

 

[Frydaddy]

Well, I don't know. Just because you're a racist doesn't mean you can't be a troublemaker with your own kind as well.
What race were the police officer and the girlfriend he fought with?

Don't you think accusing someone of racism based on supposition is nearly as bad as racism itself? I don't know isn't very convincing evidence.