17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

[Isabelle]

For those who watched Piers Morgan last night, what do you think GZ's lawyer meant when he said, "GZ is surprised that eveyone does not see him (GZ) the way he sees himself" ????

To me it means that GZ has some sort of bizarre mental processes that affect the way he sees himself and his interaction with the world.

 

[Aedrys]

What law did GZ break even if he did follow TM? Lets look at this up to the point someone put their hand on the other one. TM was walking home, GZ was following him. That not against the law. It is a public place and they BOTH had every right to be there. To me it ALL comes down to whom placed their hand on the other one.

Not blaiming TM here, but he COULD have told GZ that he was just on his way home. And he CERTAINLY should have called 911. He did not have to say "You got a problem?" (If that is what happened). Where I'm from "You got a problem?" is a provocation.

Certainly there are stalking laws which say stalking is not legal. Now, GZ only did this one time, but still, it's stalking. TM could have (not that he had time to, but I'm talking about in general) called the police and told them someone was following him. The police would not have ignored that. No one has the right to stalk another person or we wouldn't have stalking laws. He saw someone he alone considered to be suspicious (as in, no one else was around to give him an opinion, it was his and his alone), and he was not going to let TM get away. He has no legal right to detain anyone. He should have backed off and let the REAL authorities handle this situation.

And GZ had a gun while TM did not. There was no whose hands were first here. TM was supposed to politely say, "I'm just going home" to man that most likely was scowling and had a gun in his face? Really? Plus, TM was a teenager. They talk in a certain way most of the time. They tend to be sarcastic and defensive, especially if confronted about anything.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with him saying "You got a problem?" This guy he doesn't know was following him for no reason, and probably telling TM through body language that GZ had a problem with TM. You don't ask that question unless you think the other person is mad or has a problem with you.

Plus, I highly GZ even gave TM the chance to explain himself. Once he was close enough, probably all he could think about was grabbing TM and not letting him go.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

What law did GZ break even if he did follow TM? Lets look at this up to the point someone put their hand on the other one. TM was walking home, GZ was following him. That not against the law. It is a public place and they BOTH had every right to be there. To me it ALL comes down to whom placed their hand on the other one.

Not blaiming TM here, but he COULD have told GZ that he was just on his way home. And he CERTAINLY should have called 911. He did not have to say "You got a problem?" (If that is what happened). Where I'm from "You got a problem?" is a provocation.

TM did not have to answer GZ...who the hell is GZ? Had he shown a badge or wore a LE uniform, they have a right, not GZ the Twin Lakes gatekeeper???

And there is only GZ's words that TM said what he said..I happen to believe, all that GZs claims TM said, was he who said it..like 'you're going to die', 'you got me?....I can't imagine TM saying in his last dying breath, 'you got me'! I'd go for 'YOU SHOT ME', in disbelief...but GZ I believe misrepresented the facts to keep him in line with the SYG law, even if he interpeted it wrong...just as his brother stated, TM said he would walk really slow...quite opposite of what the girl said TM told her after SHE told him to run...he' said I'll just walk very fast somehow turned into walking slow? It doesn't make sense...

 

[Isabelle]

My, my, my ain't that just special?



~jmo~

Ain't it? And if it was soooooo innocent, why delete it!? Hope that is taken up by the FBI. The page may have been deleted, but there will still be a trail. I don't think it ever goes away. Maybe some of GZ's friends that called him by the nickname will come forward and vouch for him.

 

[LambChop]

At what point does something become verified as legitimate simply because it has GZ's name attached to it and a couple of pictures?

If TM's page was considered legitimate and was considered why would GZ be any different?? Personally I don't think we should consider either one because of their unreliability considering how easy it is for some to just put up a page and say they are someone else. jmo

 

[thefragile7393]

George Zimmerman expected to take the stand in Trayvon Martin murder case, legal observers say

By Jeff Black, msnbc.com
If George Zimmerman, the killer of Trayvon Martin, wants to claim self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, he most certainly will have to testify, criminal defense attorneys in Florida told msnbc.com.

It is rare in criminal cases for defendants to be called to testify because they have a right against self-incrimination and it opens them up to sharp questions from prosecutors.

But Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of Martin during a scuffle in a gated Sanford, Fla., community on Feb. 26, will need to explain why he thought his life was in danger when he shot the unarmed black teenager, attorneys not involved with the case say.



more
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...-observers-say

I would love to see this. I would love love to see him questioned by prosecution. I hope they are as sharp as tacks.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Isabelle]

That almost made me laugh out loud! I guess he holds himself in very high regard.



~jmo~

There are three words for it and can't post because not allowed.

 

[Concerned Papa]

George Zimmerman expected to take the stand in Trayvon Martin murder case, legal observers say

By Jeff Black, msnbc.com
If George Zimmerman, the killer of Trayvon Martin, wants to claim self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, he most certainly will have to testify, criminal defense attorneys in Florida told msnbc.com.

It is rare in criminal cases for defendants to be called to testify because they have a right against self-incrimination and it opens them up to sharp questions from prosecutors.

But Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of Martin during a scuffle in a gated Sanford, Fla., community on Feb. 26, will need to explain why he thought his life was in danger when he shot the unarmed black teenager, attorneys not involved with the case say.



more
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...-observers-say

Wow, I hadn't thought about that possibility. I might have to get a ticket to the cross examination show.

 

[Isabelle]

IDK, but apparently the SA's investigation revealed information that we don't have in regards to Zimmerman confronting Trayvon. In any event, if Zimmerman's account of his actions that night is the same as the storyline stated to the media by his father and brother, it becomes rather obvious that the timeline of events in their stories present two significant problems for GZ's defense.

-Based on their version and sequence of George's actions and path of movement, he was being attacked by Trayvon BEFORE he even got off the phone with 911.

-The apparent location of the body, as stated by SPD and SFD Fire and Rescue, was close to 100 feet away from where their version of events says the attack happened that caused George to "stand his ground" and shoot Trayvon.

On Tuesday, in a press conference, O'Mara said his task was to build a good defense for George. IMO, he has to tear down their first one before that's possible.

-

CP, was TM's killing in an area that would have allowed GZ to strike his head on that green garbage/poop scoop thingy along the walkway?

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I'm catching up on the overnight posts. Just got to the end and am thinking about the charging document.

Ms. Corey seems to be avoiding, at all costs, any charges of racism. She "loaded" the document with heavy language concerning the prosecution version of events. Examples of her "loaded" language BBM:

...Trayvon Martin was temporarly living... versus "visiting" to ensure to the court that Trayvon had every right to be on the premesis.

...and was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman... again reinforces Trayvon's right to be where he was and GZ "profiled" him for whatever reason, avoiding the racial issue alltogether.

Zimmerman, who also lived in the gated community... gives GZ the equal right to be on the premesis.

She is clearly stating her case with very strong language.

IMHO :moo::moo::moo:, there are no charges of racism under Florida Law because she doesn't want to bog down the basic premis of her case. She is well aware there is the Federal investigation going on and is leaving it to those investigators to cover any charges about civil rights violations.

She also used "punks" rather than the racial term many have heard because it is neutral with it's *advertiser censored***n adjectives to prove malice. I won't fathom a guess at this point as to what the tape actually said, she is using the term identified by the Zimmerman family. Again, MOO...:moo::moo::moo:

She has the luxury of avoiding the whole race issue with the fed taking the heat.

 

[Aedrys]

TM did not have to answer GZ...who the hell is GZ? Had he shown a badge or wore a LE uniform, they have a right, not GZ the Twin Lakes gatekeeper???

And there is only GZ's words that TM said what he said..I happen to believe, all that GZs claims TM said, was he who said it..like 'you're going to die', 'you got me?....I can't imagine TM saying in his last dying breath, 'you got me'! I'd go for 'YOU SHOT ME', in disbelief...but GZ I believe misrepresented the facts to keep him in line with the SYG law, even if he interpeted it wrong...just as his brother stated, TM said he would walk really slow...quite opposite of what the girl said TM told her after SHE told him to run...he' said I'll just walk very fast somehow turned into walking slow? It doesn't make sense...

Exactly. Why is expected that TM was supposed to be all gracious and cordial to GZ? Why couldn't GZ have calmly asked TM what he was doing there? I'm sure TM would have given an answer that would have satisfied the situation. Instead, he gets shot, and it's TM's fault that he wasn't nice to GZ? That makes no sense and is blaming the victim.

 

[LambChop]

I'm catching up on the overnight posts. Just got to the end and am thinking about the charging document.

Ms. Corey seems to be avoiding, at all costs, any charges of racism. She "loaded" the document with heavy language concerning the prosecution version of events. Examples of her "loaded" language BBM:

...Trayvon Martin was temporarly living... versus "vsiting" to ensure to the court that Trayvon had every right to be on the premesis.

...and was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman... again reinforces Trayvon's right to be where he was and GZ "profiled" him for whatever reason, avoiding the racial issue alltogether.

Zimmerman, who also lived in the gated community... gives GZ the equal right to be on the premesis.

She is clearly stating her case with very strong language.

IMHO :moo::moo::moo:, there are no charges of racism under Florida Law because she doesn't want to bog down the basic premis of her case. She is well aware there is the Federal investigation going on and is leaving it to those investigators to cover any charges about civil rights violations.

She also used "punks" rather than the racial term many have heard because it is neutral with it's *advertiser censored***n adjectives to prove malice. I won't fathom a guess at this point as to what the tape actually said, she is using the term identified by the Zimmerman family. Again, MOO...:moo::moo::moo:

She has the luxury of avoiding the whole race issue with the fed taking the heat.

I think you are exactly right. jmo

 

[Celt1997]

Exactly. Why is expected that TM was supposed to be all gracious and cordial to GZ? Why couldn't GZ have calmly asked TM what he was doing there? I'm sure TM would have given an answer that would have satisfied the situation. Instead, he gets shot, and it's TM's fault that he wasn't nice to GZ? That makes no sense and is blaming the victim.

Or, better yet, why couldn't GZ just have stayed in his vehicle like dispatch told him to do? If TM was intending to break into a home, the SPD were already en route and THEY would deal with it.

 

[Aedrys]

If TM's page was considered legitimate and was considered why would GZ be any different?? Personally I don't think we should consider either one because of their unreliability considering how easy it is for some to just put up a page and say they are someone else. jmo

Well, to be fair, a source close to GZ outed his page, one that waffled back and forth with yes it's him, no it's not him, wait it's an old page of his. GZ really needs to tell people around him to shut their mouths. They are only making this case worse and worse for him. Of course, he shouldn't have had the page in the first place, but I wouldn't be surprised if it really was his.

 

[JeannaT]

Or, better yet, why couldn't GZ just have stayed in his vehicle like dispatch told him to do? If TM was intending to break into a home, the SPD were already en route and THEY would deal with it.

Remember, he called the non emergency number. We don't know how long it would have taken them to arrive if there hadn't been 911 calls of a shooting. Maybe they were on the way and would have arrived the same time regardless, but I think it's fair to think that GZ was thinking it might be quite some time before they arrived.

 

[mercuriod]

What FT says has no real evidentiary value for or against GZ IMO.
He didn't witness what happened that night.

JMO

No but he can be used as a witness to GZ depraved state of mind, you know since he knows GZ sooooo well and is just like him and all.

 

[jaded cat]

What law did GZ break even if he did follow TM? Lets look at this up to the point someone put their hand on the other one. TM was walking home, GZ was following him. That not against the law. It is a public place and they BOTH had every right to be there. To me it ALL comes down to whom placed their hand on the other one.

Not blaiming TM here, but he COULD have told GZ that he was just on his way home. And he CERTAINLY should have called 911. He did not have to say "You got a problem?" (If that is what happened). Where I'm from "You got a problem?" is a provocation.

I'm not really blaming TM but I'm blaming him for what I think he could have done! I can't read that 2nd paragraph any other way. TM is the victim here. He's dead. Since we don't know what happened, how can anyone say what either TM or GZ could have done, at that point? :waitasec:

GZ's booking reports states he is 5'10", 185 pounds. So, not much shorter than TM and about 40-50 pounds heavier, if he has indeed lost weight since the shooting. He might be a little on the heavy side but I doubt he's all flab and no muscle. :moo:

I respect the board owner's decision to treat both TM and GZ as victims in this incident, but TM is always the victim in this. He's DEAD. I believe GZ is the victim of his own bad judgement. :moo:

 

[Cher352]

I'm catching up on the overnight posts. Just got to the end and am thinking about the charging document.

Ms. Corey seems to be avoiding, at all costs, any charges of racism. She "loaded" the document with heavy language concerning the prosecution version of events. Examples of her "loaded" language BBM:

...Trayvon Martin was temporarly living... versus "vsiting" to ensure to the court that Trayvon had every right to be on the premesis.

...and was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman... again reinforces Trayvon's right to be where he was and GZ "profiled" him for whatever reason, avoiding the racial issue alltogether.

Zimmerman, who also lived in the gated community... gives GZ the equal right to be on the premesis.

She is clearly stating her case with very strong language.

IMHO :moo::moo::moo:, there are no charges of racism under Florida Law because she doesn't want to bog down the basic premis of her case. She is well aware there is the Federal investigation going on and is leaving it to those investigators to cover any charges about civil rights violations.

She also used "punks" rather than the racial term many have heard because it is neutral with it's *advertiser censored***n adjectives to prove malice. I won't fathom a guess at this point as to what the tape actually said, she is using the term identified by the Zimmerman family. Again, MOO...:moo::moo::moo:

She has the luxury of avoiding the whole race issue with the fed taking the heat.

The thought has crossed my mind that she was avoiding the racial thing in part to please Gov Scott who assigned her to this case. The last thing any governor would want would be that any part of his state was racist. JMO

 

[Aedrys]

Remember, he called the non emergency number. We don't know how long it would have taken them to arrive if there hadn't been 911 calls of a shooting. Maybe they were on the way and would have arrived the same time regardless, but I think it's fair to think that GZ was thinking it might be quite some time before they arrived.

That still does not give GZ any right to get involved in the situation or detain anyone. He is not the police. It doesn't matter how much time it would have taken for the police to get there, GZ had no right to do anything before the police got there.

 

[momshrink]

To me it means that GZ has some sort of bizarre mental processes that affect the way he sees himself and his interaction with the world.

Famed psychologist Carl Rogers said that the greater the difference between the ideal self and the real self, the more out of touch with reality a person is.
IMO FT and GZ lived a bit of a fantasy life with the supposed burglary attempts that only they saw. Gave GZ the opportunity to be a dashing hero. JMO