17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[Adrienne37]

BBM..IF true, could be his EGO took great offense to a verbal reprimand and he felt the need to prove to LE his calls to 911 did deserve merit..I'm not convinced he wasn't planning to kill Trayvon when he was on the phone with dispatch.... JMHO

Great point Emeralgem.

 

[Donjeta]

It was an analogy. A lot of folks equate the term child with 'innocent' and as we have seen in our society, as a child gets older, they don't all turn out 'innocent'.

This is in general, not in reference to TM. As far as we know, TM was an innocent victim.

OK, I didn't see the point of refuting something that nobody said about him being a five year old, but you intended to refute that he was an innocent child, except you don't really, because he is innocent as far as we know?

I am confusing myself.

 

[grandmaj]

Good morning


hone: Just checking my GPS to be sure I'm in the Hot Cases Thread and not the Sound off thread. :waitasec:

 

[imamaze]

BEM: Are you listening to an abbreviated version? He says "ok" about 2 minutes into the 4 minute call.

I don't believe he stared him down either, I think, as GZ said on the call, he was staring at him and then coming toward him - this tells me he was "staring" from a distance. JMO

I didn't get the impression George was saying or hear him say that TM walked up to GZ's truck and stare him down.
I think TM was probably looking at GZ, but in the context of worrying about why someone was following him or watching him. He may have walked towards him to see if he could see who he was, but I don't get the impression GZ is saying he walked close to his car and stared him down.

Really I don't get the impression GZ is making up anything or trying to make up a story for self defense. I think that his frame of mind was that TM was up to something. Right or wrong or if he should have thought that or not, I do think that's what he thought.

I don't think GZ should have continued to follow him when he was told 'we don't need you to do that' and he said ok. He knew LE was coming and on the way. He was told that more than once.

I just keep coming back to GZ is the adult, he knew TM was a 'kid'. GZ had the gun, I just don't see how you can claim SYG when you are following and with a gun on you. I do think he thought TM was going to get away, but why in the world would you follow somone you fear? It just doesn't make any sense to me, and Who Cares if he gets away, its not worth losing your life or taking someone elses life imo. Why did it bother him so much?

I still don't understand how TM can be found face down with his hands under him and things be the way GZ said. Did GZ turn him over that way?

Your right though he said ok about 2:25 into the call, and I also agree with the staring down, I didn't take it that way at all.

Ima

 

[Adrienne37]

It's almost funny to hear the same point of view that so vocally cast doubt on a 16 year old girlfriend's statements, with phone records to back it up, because of a couple of weeks delay in hearing from her, being the same ones so vocally pushing the words of alleged "neighbors" who don't even show up as owners on the Seminole County Appraiser's site......TWO MONTHS after the fact.

http://scpaweb.scpafl.org/v3/

So the neighbors are only renters in the community as well Papa? If that's the case, then I can certainly see why they might come to the "rescue" of the poor poor neighborhood watch captain.


~jmo~

 

[magnolia]

Her name is SYBRINA.

Yeah... how could he possibly think anything could 'happen' while chasing down a child with a 9mm gun?! That gun didn't shoot itself - it didn't just 'happen'. IMO

chase 1(ch

s)
v. chased, chas·ing, chas·es
v.tr. 1. To follow rapidly in order to catch or overtake; pursue: chased the thief.
2. To follow (game) in order to capture or kill; hunt: chase foxes.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Chasing



Trayvon was, indeed, a child. He was barely 17 years old. As defined by law in this country, he's considered a child until his 18th birthday. Sadly, he'll never see that day.

We don't know GZ was following Trayvon in order to catch him or overtake him.

You posted as fact,GZ was chasing a child with a 9mm gun. Are you stating as fact that GZ had his gun out at the time he was following the Trayvon.

 

[Adrienne37]

I didn't get the impression George was saying or hear him say that TM walked up to GZ's truck and stare him down.
I think TM was probably looking at GZ, but in the context of worrying about why someone was following him or watching him. He may have walked towards him to see if he could see who he was, but I don't get the impression GZ is saying he walked close to his car and stared him down.

Really I don't get the impression GZ is making up anything or trying to make up a story for self defense. I think that his frame of mind was that TM was up to something. Right or wrong or if he should have thought that or not, I do think that's what he thought.

I don't think GZ should have continued to follow him when he was told 'we don't need you to do that' and he said ok. He knew LE was coming and on the way. He was told that more than once.

I just keep coming back to GZ is the adult, he knew TM was a 'kid'. GZ had the gun, I just don't see how you can claim SYG when you are following and with a gun on you. I do think he thought TM was going to get away, but why in the world would you follow somone you fear? It just doesn't make any sense to me, and Who Cares if he gets away, its not worth losing your life or taking someone elses life imo. Why did it bother him so much?

I still don't understand how TM can be found face down with his hands under him and things be the way GZ said. Did GZ turn him over that way?

Your right though he said ok about 2:25 into the call, and I also agree with the staring down, I didn't take it that way at all.

Ima

Grandmaj, I think the story about Trayvon walking up to Zimmerman's vehicle is the story that his father told in one of his interviews.


~jmo~

 

[suzihawk]

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/fl/sanford/crime/

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Sanford-Florida.html

It's not the safest place in the world...

Thank you.

I don't see anything in those statistics that say the high crime rate is attributed to young black men or that it's perpetrated against them - either way. So you're suggesting that young men MIGHT be carrying guns in order to protect themselves in general, I guess?

 

[cityslick]

OK, I didn't see the point of refuting something that nobody said about him being a five year old, but you intended to refute that he was an innocent child, except you don't really, because he is innocent as far as we know?

I am confusing myself.

I don't think a 17 year old should be looked upon as innocent as say, a 10 year old or even a 5 year old because someone that is 17 years old has as much ability to do harm to someone as an adult. I'm getting the impression when one says 'GZ chased down a child', that statement is meant to imply that TM was this meek little thing and I don't think that was/is the case.

 

[LynnM]

If a 17 year old shoots and kills someone, are they treated like a 'child' by the justice system in this country?

Yes, TM was a child but he wasn't 5 years old either.

It depends. In my state, there is an amenability hearing in Family Court to decide whether a child, ie, someone under 18, would be amenable to rehabilitation in the juvenile system if found guilty. If so, then he will be tried as a juvenile. If not, he's tried as an adult.

 

[Elley Mae]

It was an analogy. A lot of folks equate the term child with 'innocent' and as we have seen in our society, as a child gets older, they don't all turn out 'innocent'.

This is in general, not in reference to TM. As far as we know, TM was an innocent victim.

I'm the same when hearing "child" I think of a "elementary age" child. I don't think of a 6'3" almost 17 year old. Thats jut me.

 

[Etilema]

Yes, I know her name is Sybrina - haven't put in my contacts yet!

I don't see how he could have been "chasing" him, although that sounds much more dramatic. I also don't think he had any intention of using his gun. You could hear him begging for help - I think he was horrified when he was yelling, but no one would help him. I just don't feel like shooting him was his intent until it was too late.

You could hear who begging for help? Zimmerman? It would seem most evidence we have suggests it was Trayvon begging for help.

 

[vlpate]

As has been stated many times before, Trayvon was 2 weeks past his 17th birthday. In the good 'ole US of A, one must be 18 in order to be considered an adult; therefore, common sense dictates that a person who is under the age of 18 must be a child. I'd appreciate if you would provide links to the fact that Trayvon was not considered a child. Thank ya so much.


~jmo~

Teenager?

 

[Cher352]

I really don't understand all the discussion about using the SPD non-emergency number. To me it seems the right thing to do unless you actually have an emergency such as a fire, car accident, some type of medical problem, etc. It also may be that SPD request that all Neighborhood Watch programs use the non-emergency line to report suspicious activity.

Even in the Neighborhood Watch sign posted at the gate of this community the non-emergency number is listed first.

And then from Sanford's Q&A:

How can I report crime or suspicious activity in my neighborhood?

Call 911 if you feel there is an emergency or the Sanford Police Department non-emergency line 407.688.5199 for non-emergencies.
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/police/FAQ.html​

 

[cityslick]

Thank you.

I don't see anything in those statistics that say the high crime rate is attributed to young black men or that it's perpetrated against them - either way. So you're suggesting that young men MIGHT be carrying guns in order to protect themselves in general, I guess?

I never said black men. There is a lot of crime in that town. The one statistic I can't find is ages of those would perpetrate the crimes and how many gun crimes (although a theft could also be a gun crime if used to threaten) happen over a period of time.

 

[vlpate]

You could hear who begging for help? Zimmerman? It would seem most evidence we have suggests it was Trayvon begging for help.

Yes, the witness said he saw the man on the bottom in the red sweater yelling help. Both parents say it is their child. I hear more than one though.

 

[jaded cat]

You are certainly entitled to believe what you wish. It is clear to me by the wording in the article, that neighbor saw what the Rodriguez's saw the day after the incident. S/he agreed with the R's account.

Interesting that, seeing as how the R's were standing close to him and she was looking down from a 2nd story window.

I always believe whatever I wish and clarity is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Instead of all this half baked "send in the family and pals" approach to telling his side of the deal, why didn't a truthful suspect show up in person for interviews with a doctor, x rays, and NON ENHANCED photographs?

With all of the intense media attention on this case, instead of sending his father and brother with mentally insulting tales of his actions that night, why didn't a suspect telling the truth DEMAND interviews on the sole condition that a nationally recognized polygraph expert also be present to strap him up and show the world what the truth sounds and looks like?

Instead of sitting in jail, cryin in his cell, he could have been sitting on a tropical beach somewhere, counting his money, IF HE WAS INNOCENT.

 

[Etilema]

Yes, the witness said he saw the man on the bottom in the red sweater yelling help. Both parents say it is their child. I hear more than one though.

I think I may hear more than one, also; but I think that prolonged begging/wailing is Trayvon.

I am starting to think that Trayvon fought to get away, then GZ got the upper hand and when Trayvon didn't stop struggling, he shot him.

All pure speculation on my part, based on the evidence we have heard.

 

[Cher352]

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/fl/sanford/crime/

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Sanford-Florida.html

It's not the safest place in the world...

How right you are. Sanford has been like that for decades if not longer.

Just last last night yet another drive by shooting there in an apt complex. This is the third one I have seen on the news in the last few week.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/sanford-police-and-fdle-investigate-shooting-apart/nMbFc/