17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[Elley Mae]

I didn't get the impression George was saying or hear him say that TM walked up to GZ's truck and stare him down.
I think TM was probably looking at GZ, but in the context of worrying about why someone was following him or watching him. He may have walked towards him to see if he could see who he was, but I don't get the impression GZ is saying he walked close to his car and stared him down.

Really I don't get the impression GZ is making up anything or trying to make up a story for self defense. I think that his frame of mind was that TM was up to something. Right or wrong or if he should have thought that or not, I do think that's what he thought.

I don't think GZ should have continued to follow him when he was told 'we don't need you to do that' and he said ok. He knew LE was coming and on the way. He was told that more than once.

I just keep coming back to GZ is the adult, he knew TM was a 'kid'. GZ had the gun, I just don't see how you can claim SYG when you are following and with a gun on you. I do think he thought TM was going to get away, but why in the world would you follow somone you fear? It just doesn't make any sense to me, and Who Cares if he gets away, its not worth losing your life or taking someone elses life imo. Why did it bother him so much?

I still don't understand how TM can be found face down with his hands under him and things be the way GZ said. Did GZ turn him over that way?

Your right though he said ok about 2:25 into the call, and I also agree with the staring down, I didn't take it that way at all.

Ima

I wondered that as well. I play that part out in my mind and I have tried both ways. The both of them fighting in the standing position or both on the ground fighting. To me they would probably been standing, maybe lol If TM was shot standing (on his feet) could he have grabbed him chest (wound) then fallen forward to the ground. And then with GZ "reportedly" being over TM in the position of maybe holding the "suspect" down. Not knowing the shot was fatal. On the ground fighting and probably rolling around taking turns on the top and bottom then the shot is fired, if TM is on the ground when shot GZ may have turned him over to not see his face. If TM was on top when the fire was shot surely GZ would have had more blood on him. jmo

 

[cityslick]

Instead of all this half baked "send in the family and pals" approach to telling his side of the deal, why didn't a truthful suspect show up in person for interviews with a doctor, x rays, and NON ENHANCED photographs?

With all of the intense media attention on this case, instead of sending his father and brother with mentally insulting tales of his actions that night, why didn't a suspect telling the truth DEMAND interviews on the sole condition that a nationally recognized polygraph expert also be present to strap him up and show the world what the truth sounds and looks like?

Instead of sitting in jail, cryin in his cell, he could have been sitting on a tropical beach somewhere, counting his money, IF HE WAS INNOCENT.

You think GZ is 'sending' this people to go and fill air time for him? I'm not so sure about that. I think these people are trying to keep getting their 15 minutes. And when you say, show up for interviews and a doctor, do you mean to the media? What does GZ going on a talk show do but only inflame the mob even further?

I will say it again, I want to see the report that GZ gave the LE in his own words, not this hearsay nonsense from his father/brother/friend/neighbor/long lost cousin/etc, etc.

 

[Gin]

Teenager?

IMO/JMO
Florida--
Child= an unmarried person who is born, under the age of 18, and who has not been emancipated by order of the court.

Trayvon was a legally a child.

 

[suzihawk]

We don't know GZ was following Trayvon in order to catch him or overtake him.

You posted as fact,GZ was chasing a child with a 9mm gun. Are you stating as fact that GZ had his gun out at the time he was following the Trayvon.

Nope. We don't know that for a fact, do we?. Although, it certainly wouldn't surprise me to discover he did.

Yes, I DO believe he was pursuing Trayvon in order to catch or overtake him. Further, I believe once he did catch up to him, he became frustrated and agitated that this perceived criminal in action in his mind didn't quietly and politely acquisce to his authority.

In my opinion.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

It depends. In my state, there is an amenability hearing in Family Court to decide whether a child, ie, someone under 18, would be amenable to rehabilitation in the juvenile system if found guilty. If so, then he will be tried as a juvenile. If not, he's tried as an adult.

Again, confusing criminal accountability to legal responsibility...

Legal age 18

Criminal age various depending on the viciousness of the crime a young teen commits..age 14, can be tried in a court of law as an adult..

Legally cannot buy beer, liquor, cigarettes, vote...until 21

can vote at 18 go into the military without parental consent...

Criminal age vs legal age is the difference...

 

[waltzingmatilda]

There is a great ariel shot of the loong sidewalk at this link, 2nd photo down.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hooting-George-Zimmerman-fears-life-jail.html

From looking at this photo, I don't believe GZ could see where Trayvon went if his 'schruck' was parked in the curve where the truck is parked in the photo. I think he assumed Trayvon was headed to the back entrance when in fact he took a right down the long sidewalk between the buildings. So GZ goes straight over to retreat view to look for a house number because he states on the 911 call that TM is headed toward the back entrance but when he gets there he doesn't see Trayvon. At the point in the call when GZ begins giving his home address then says he doesn't want to give it out then in a low voice says I dont know where this kid went. I think that is when it dawned on him that TM didn't head toward the back entrance and cut thru the buildings and met TM on the sidewalk between the buildings. This would be when TM says to his gf 'he's back' then asks why are you following me and gz asks what are you doing here and Tm is disconnected from his call.

I just cannot fathom that a young man who is on the phone with his girlfriend would be the aggressor here. He had the security of knowing that he was on the phone and had a told a friend what was going on but GZ didn't know this, Trayon's earbud was under his hoodie. The only logical conclusion that I can reach is that GZ attempted to restrain Trayvon and they went down to the ground and that's when the call was disconnected.
This is the only way that I can account for the missing time and is akin to the scenario Concerned Papa has so kindly documented along with his maps.

OT sort of, but I'll try to connect this thought to the discussion at hand.

I taught in a classroom for Emotionally and behaviorally handicapped children in which I received training for diffusing violence and techniques for restraining students if absolutely necessary. (These kids were violent and a few had .) The handful of times that a situation escalated and I needed to use what I had been taught, the child would go straight down to the ground. IMO, this is human nature and also gives the aggressor/restrainer less control. I taught my kids this same technique if anyone ever tried to snatch them and we role played it. IMO, this may explain why/how Trayon was on top of GZ because GZ may not have expected or been trained for this reaction.

I'm still waiting for GZ's medical reports but I do think TM most likely got a few licks in as he fought for his life. (I don't think Gz's injuries were as severe as RZjr. claims.)

Heck, I am a small woman and learned to hold on tight and roll with the punches until the principal arrived. A few of these kids weighed as much as me and one was taller. I received a couple of bumps and bruises but no major injuries. This is why I question GZ's decision to pull out his gun and shoot a barely 17 year old kid.

:twocents:

wm

 

[grammieto5]

This may seem like a small detail to most, but to me it's huge.

GZ didn't call 911. He called the nonemergency number. It could have been an hour or who knows how long before LE showed up. I believe GZ thought he would have a long wait before there was any response, and felt the need to track Trayvon because no one from LE would be there anytime soon. And in GZ's mindset, this young man might commit a crime and then be out of there before the non emergency response arrived.

To me, that's important.

If GZ thought he was protecting his neighbors from a crime why didn't he call 911? By a non-emergency number do mean GZ just called the police department?

 

[mercuriod]

We don't know GZ was following Trayvon in order to catch him or overtake him.

You posted as fact,GZ was chasing a child with a 9mm gun. Are you stating as fact that GZ had his gun out at the time he was following the Trayvon.

He was chasing (ok, I'll be polite - following at a very rapid pace) Trayvon (a legal child), and he did have a 9mm gun on him, those are the facts.

 

[Concerned Papa]

You think GZ is 'sending' this people to go and fill air time for him? I'm not so sure about that. I think these people are trying to keep getting their 15 minutes. And when you say, show up for interviews and a doctor, do you mean to the media? What does GZ going on a talk show do but only inflame the mob even further?

I will say it again, I want to see the report that GZ gave the LE in his own words, not this hearsay nonsense from his father/brother/friend/neighbor/long lost cousin/etc, etc.

I tend to think that a doctor who treated his broken nose, copies of the x rays of this broken nose, and photographs of his brutally damaged skull would carry more weight in an interview than a couple of "neighbors" saying they saw some bandages and swelling two month after the fact.

I think the truth and reasonable proof of the truth would have quietened the mob much more than preposterous tales that can not be true.

If he's innocent.

 

[imamaze]

Well according to the 911 call GZ calls TM a 'kid'. Now I know that doesn't mean five years old or anything but he knew TM was a kid. He knew he was young. IMO I think that's what gave him the courage to continue following him. He wasn't afraid of him, that's why he was following him. In my opinion of course.

Ima

 

[magnolia]

As been stated many times by who?

A boy who had just turned 17 a few weeks prior to his death was most certainly still a child.

And that's according to the law.

I can't hire anyone Trayvon's age without them having working papers, and that because of those "child' labor laws.

No one Trayvon's age can vote, again, because they're not adults.
Do we really need to supply links for what should be common knowledge? :waitasec:

JMHO

Trayvon was a 17 yr. old teenager. Was Trayvon referred to as a child before his death? No, IMO, he was referred to as a teenager. Why after this incident/his death, are people now referring to him as a child. :waitasec:

 

[imamaze]

When was he running? He wasn't running while on the phone - are you saying you think he was running after he got off the phone? I'm pretty sure he thought Trayvon was gone...

It does sound like he was running while on the phone to me but he stops a few seconds after the 911 guy asks him if he's following TM. I guess none of us have any idea what happened after that. Was he confronted by TM? or did he continue to look for TM?

I'm sure this has been asked and answered before but could someone tell me how far away this happened from GZ's vehicle? Thanks.

Ima

 

[Velouria]

I'm late to the party once again and, although others have already commented, it doesn't stop me from adding my :twocents:.



Gz's record shows he was not a law abiding citizen.

As others have pointed out, there is no indication that Trayvon was not behaving in a civil manner. Unless you think trying to defend his life is uncivil?? Or maybe walking while black?? The very nerve!



I, too, have wondered why he called the non-emergency number. Perhaps it was calculated in that he thought it would buy him a little more time to finally become the hero and catch one of these elusive a$$holes that always got away for himself. You know, the ones the cops were never even able to find, much less catch, themselves.

BBM

Agreed, suzi.

There was only one participant required by the court to attend an anger management program, and it wasn't Trayvon Martin.

 

[Aedrys]

Well according to the 911 call GZ calls TM a 'kid'. Now I know that doesn't mean five years old or anything but he knew TM was a kid. He knew he was young. IMO I think that's what gave him the courage to continue following him. He wasn't afraid of him, that's why he was following him. In my opinion of course.

Ima

That's a good point. He probably thought, if his ego is what I think it is, it would be easy to take on a kid. Maybe he drew his gun, thinking it would scare TM into submission. What I don't get, then, is why TM ended up being shot. Maybe GZ wasn't going to let no punk kid get the better of him? And I don't mean physically, but maybe TM said something that insulted GZ's intelligence or something? I just don't think GZ was ever afraid of TM. And I think he already had SYG in mind before anything happened. He thought he could use that to get away with whatever was going to happen.

I can't wait until this gets to court and I hear what the prosecution and defense put together on this. There are just so many questions that need to be answered!

 

[cityslick]

I tend to think that a doctor who treated his broken nose, copies of the x rays of this broken nose, and photographs of his brutally damaged skull would carry more weight in an interview than a couple of "neighbors" saying they saw some bandages and swelling two month after the fact.

I think the truth and reasonable proof of the truth would have quietened the mob much more than preposterous tales that can not be true.

If he's innocent.

I only read the report once so I don't remember but, did it say he had a broken nose? I know it said he was bleeding from the head but I can't recall if it said broken nose.

The only people (if it's not in the report) saying he had a broken nose is this cast of characters that are parading in front of cameras. I don't deem them very credible.

 

[Concerned Papa]

You think GZ is 'sending' this people to go and fill air time for him? I'm not so sure about that. I think these people are trying to keep getting their 15 minutes. And when you say, show up for interviews and a doctor, do you mean to the media? What does GZ going on a talk show do but only inflame the mob even further?

I will say it again, I want to see the report that GZ gave the LE in his own words, not this hearsay nonsense from his father/brother/friend/neighbor/long lost cousin/etc, etc.

I'd like to read it in it's entirety as well, but this article from the Orlando Sentinel with information from a leaked source gives a clear indication that he told essentially the same tale as his father and brother.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

Also, if you go to this post of mine, you can see an attachment from the City Manager of Sanford, verifying the Sentinel story as being accurate as to it's content.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7788590&postcount=826"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24[/ame]

 

[imamaze]

Trayvon was a 17 yr. old teenager. Was Trayvon referred to as a child before his death? No, IMO, he was referred to as a teenager. Why after this incident/his death, are people now referring to him as a child. :waitasec:

Well... I don't think TM would appreciate being called a 'child'. I don't know why they are referring to him as a child, legally he is I suppose. In my view I would think teenager as well.

Ima

 

[Gin]

IMO/JMO
Florida--
Child= an unmarried person who is born, under the age of 18, and who has not been emancipated by order of the court.

Trayvon was a legally a child.

Trayvon was a 17 yr. old teenager. Was Trayvon referred to as a child before his death? No, IMO, he was referred to as a teenager. Why after this incident/his death, are people now referring to him as a child. :waitasec:

They are referring to Trayvon as a child because, legally, he was a child.

 

[Velouria]

IMO/JMO
Florida--
Child= an unmarried person who is born, under the age of 18, and who has not been emancipated by order of the court.

Trayvon was a legally a child.

And as confirmed by the mods upthread, a minor on this forum.

 

[Aedrys]

Trayvon was a 17 yr. old teenager. Was Trayvon referred to as a child before his death? No, IMO, he was referred to as a teenager. Why after this incident/his death, are people now referring to him as a child. :waitasec:

Because even as a teenager, his brain is still developing. He is not expected to have a job and pay for a home, car, etc. He is still very much a child dependent on his parents at 17. I would still call him a teenager rather than a child, but the definition fits. He was a child in mind and body, and GZ was the adult. Big difference between the two. I think some keep forgetting that and keep thinking TM was an adult just like GZ. That is just not the case.